Plants are growing fast and leggy

Me again with my plant questions

My plants are finally all growing relatively well with no algae in the tank and only dosing Thrive 1-2 times as recommended, no co2. I'm using am LED light and have them running no more than 8 hours a day at around 40%. With a sunrise, sunset and moonlight setting on each side so 40% RGB+W running for 6 hours only a day.

Within the last two days, my plants have really started reaching for the light. In fact they are growing so fast now, but seem to be getting really leggy and not bushy. I've tried to do some reading online and some have said not enough CO2 and needs more light, but others have said they need less light to make them more bushy. I could always trim them back and replant too as they're growing fast.

I'm conflicted and looking for some advice. Thanks!

 

There is no correct answer sorry FunnyFish .

Depending on the species of plants a tip prune can help the lower nodes to grow “ branches “ .
You will at some stage have to cut a stem plant in half. But knowing if now is the time or if a tip prune is what is required will take experimentation. ( time )


You could increase the time of lighting as well? But 8 hours is about right. Depending on the distance above the water and the quality of the light etc etc.
Writing down the date and amount of change MAY help you if you get an algae outbreak?

Without seeing your tank setup or the plant species me jumping in and saying a tip prune will help 100% is not something I am prepared to do.

With 40 years experience in the outside garden I have found many things cross over to aquatic plants.

 

If your plants are growing well without algae issues, you're off to a great start. If you want your plants to grow bushier, I'd first recommend trimming them.

If trimming alone doesn't get you the results you want, try injecting CO2 without increasing your lighting. Higher CO2 levels often cause plants to grow fuller even if you don't increase your lighting. In fact, you could even play around with lowering your lighting, because plants grown in CO2 rich conditions don't need as much light.

If trimming and CO2 arn't enough to get the kind of growth you want, you'll probably need to increase your lighting. Be aware that high light means your plants will demand far more care, and algae will quickly pop up if conditions suite them.

Note: Raising CO2 and light means your plants will grow way faster than they do already. So, you'll have to feed them accordingly. Also, don't raise your light levels without raising CO2, as this usually results in algae outbreaks.

 

Writing down the date and amount of change MAY help you if you get an algae outbreak?

Without seeing your tank setup or the plant species me jumping in and saying a tip prune will help 100% is not something I am prepared to do.

With 40 years experience in the outside garden I have found many things cross over to aquatic plants.

I did add the photos now which I forgot in my original post so that you can see what I'm talking about.

Also, this is a great idea to write down my dates and light changes to see what works and what isn't and to stop algae growth. Thank you for the ideas on what to look at doing.

If your plants are growing well without algae issues, you're off to a great start. If you want your plants to grow bushier, I'd first recommend trimming them.

If trimming alone doesn't get you the results you want, try injecting CO2 without increasing your lighting. Higher CO2 levels often cause plants to grow fuller even if you don't increase your lighting. In fact, you could even play around with lowering your lighting, because plants grown in CO2 rich conditions don't need as much light.

If trimming and CO2 arn't enough to get the kind of growth you want, you'll probably need to increase your lighting. Be aware that high light means your plants will demand far more care, and algae will quickly pop up if conditions suite them.

Note: Raising CO2 and light means your plants will grow way faster than they do already. So, you'll have to feed them accordingly. Also, don't raise your light levels without raising CO2, as this usually results in algae outbreaks.

Thanks! I had some algae in the beginning and then I added more plants and turned down my lighting and it got better. The leaves that had tons of algae, I just trimmed them off and got rid of them.

I'm trying to keep it low tech and not inject CO2. I may just need to play around with trimming and lighting and see what it does.

 

I see your pictures now.

Honestly, those look like healthy plants to me. That's just how those species grow in a low-tech tank.

If you want a fuller look, like what you might see in competition tanks, you'll need to inject CO2 and (possibly) increase your lighting.

 

Ok great! Maybe this is just what it is, I'm getting these plants from someone who is using CO2 and so they are bushy, and then get to my tank and are still healthy just in a different way I suppose lol.

I guess this just means my fish will always have room to swim. Perk!

 

...I'm getting these plants from someone who is using CO2 and so they are bushy, and then get to my tank and are still healthy just in a different way I suppose lol.

Exactly. The plants are still healthy, their form is just a bit different.

They still look nice to me.

 

Trimming, replanting close together will get you the bushy look with your Heteranthera, Hygrophila and Limnophila.

Pearl weed is also a great plant for a bushy appearance in low tech. You can trim it for a bushy look, but also 'massage' it. When it has reached a bit of length, just mess up the stems so that they become intertwined. Great versatile plant, for shrimp, fry, foreground, background, makes other plants stand out due to the small leaves it has.

Also recommend Ludwigia mini super red, which is red by default and makes a lovely combo with Heteranthera and Hygrophila.

 

If plants are not receiving sufficient light, they tend to grow fast in an attempt to reach the surface where the light is stronger. Your photos show what looks like fairly dim light. This is further confirmed by your statement that you are running your LED light at 40% brightness.

Try increasing your light brightness (not daily duration). Do not go to 100% right away as that might shock the plants and fish. Perhaps increase the brightness level 10% at a time until the plant respond.

How big is the tank and what is the wattage of your LED light? Plants normally need something like 1-2 watts per gallon for a tank of normal depth. If you tank is extra deep, they will need even more. I once had a 10 gallon tank with a 26 watt LED light running full brightness. The plants grew quite lush.

 

But don't forget about all the other lessons FunnyFish

 

But don't forget about all the other lessons FunnyFish

I'm not forgetting about them which is why I'm being very cautious with lighting and such. Plus I don't have algae anymore so I have a good balance going in that sense. I've learned so much and I know it's a fine line, especially with low tech. And I'm going away for the weekend so I don't want to come home to chaos if I make the wrong mistake lol

If plants are not receiving sufficient light, they tend to grow fast in an attempt to reach the surface where the light is stronger. Your photos show what looks like fairly dim light. This is further confirmed by your statement that you are running your LED light at 40% brightness.

Try increasing your light brightness (not daily duration). Do not go to 100% right away as that might shock the plants and fish. Perhaps increase the brightness level 10% at a time until the plant respond.

How big is the tank and what is the wattage of your LED light? Plants normally need something like 1-2 watts per gallon for a tank of normal depth. If you tank is extra deep, they will need even more. I once had a 10 gallon tank with a 26 watt LED light running full brightness. The plants grew quite lush.

I took these photos after the lights were completely out and only my living room light was on so that's why it looks so dim. The lights running in the daytime are quite bright even at 40%.

My tank is a 32 gallon, 20" deep, and I have a Nicrew RGB+W light that is 17w.

 

I took these photos after the lights were completely out and only my living room light was on so that's why it looks so dim. The lights running in the daytime are quite bright even at 40%.

I was questioning this myself too. I thought to myself, you're exaggerating my lessons

Plants in low tech can look more leggy compared to CO2 powered, bright aquascape tanks. Trim them and replant the trimmed parts close to the cut-off parts. Have fun with it and repeat. Soon, you'll be getting a bushy look.

 

I will be sure to do a trim on them for sure. My Gourami's aren't sad they are almost at the water surface. They love the coverage lol

The true perk here is that I'm not complaining about algae. I'd much rather leggy

 

I'm not forgetting about them which is why I'm being very cautious with lighting and such. Plus I don't have algae anymore so I have a good balance going in that sense. I've learned so much and I know it's a fine line, especially with low tech. And I'm going away for the weekend so I don't want to come home to chaos if I make the wrong mistake lol


I took these photos after the lights were completely out and only my living room light was on so that's why it looks so dim. The lights running in the daytime are quite bright even at 40%.

My tank is a 32 gallon, 20" deep, and I have a Nicrew RGB+W light that is 17w.

A 17 watt light running at 40% brightness is only 7 watts. For a 32 gallon tank, that is only 0,2 watts per gallon. While that might seem bright enough to you, it is not nearly bright enough for your plants. You should be using something more than 1 watt per gallon, five times the level you are currently using.
If you want your plants to grow lush and full, you are going to need a minimum of 36 watts of lighting.

Technically, light should not be measured in watts. What you are really looking for is PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation), but such meters are too expensive for most fishkeepers to purchase. The problem with using perceived brightness is that the pupils of your eyes dilate based on the available illumination. Our perception of brightness follows a logarithmic curve whereas plants will react to to light in a more linear fashion.

 

This information is a little flawed.

In a way, PAR is a measure of energy-efficiency. Closer to PAR implies you need less energy to achieve similar 'photon flux density', aka. 'intensity'. Leaving the role of specialised photoreceptors out of scope for a second, plants capture light at any human-visible wavelength (and a little further) and subsequently treat it equally for sake of sugar production. Moreover, plants respond with auxiliary pigments to optimise light absorption given the wavelengths.

In a similar vein, the total intensity is also subject to adaptations. Similar to the pupils of our eyes, plants respond to rapid changes in light intensity by several mechanisms such as movement of chloroplasts within the cell.

And all of this is plant species specific.

If you want real lush growth, get CO2.

If you don't want to use CO2, be careful not to run lights too high / default, because chances are your plants run into problems and chances are you'll have algae predating on those problems.

To get some lushness, understand the differences between plant species, understand the role of intensity on different species, understand how to trim plants, understand the relation with algae, and experiment a little with increasing light intensity.

 

I remember being told 3 watts/gallon was high light, 2 was medium, and 1 was low...but this was back when we were using T12 fluorescents. Lighting technology has changed so much since then. I agree that plants will struggle if they don't get enough light, but, with so many lighting options these days, it's difficult to nail down specific guidelines.

For reference, here's a picture of some Limnophila sessiflora currently growing in my 150 gallon. The tank is 2 feet deep. I have SB Reef LED lights, and I'm injecting CO2. My lights are on for 7 hours per day at 0.6 watts/gallon.

 

I remember being told 3 watts/gallon was high light, 2 was medium, and 1 was low...but this was back when we were using T12 fluorescents. Lighting technology has changed so much since then. I agree that plants will struggle if they don't get enough light, but, with so many lighting options these days, it's difficult to nail down specific guidelines.

For reference, here's a picture of some Limnophila sessiflora currently growing in my 150 gallon. The tank is 2 feet deep. I have SB Reef LED lights, and I'm injecting CO2. My lights are on for 7 hours per day at 0.6 watts/gallon.

View attachment 882940

True, but Limnophila sessiflora does not require a lot of light. Your 0.6 watts per gallon might be just fine for it, but if your were attempting to grow Cabomba, you would need a lot more light.

The OP is using lights at 0.2 watts per gallon which is 1/3 of the light you are using.

 

Definitely lots of great information here. Thank you everyone for your contributions.

I won't be making any immediate changes as I'm leaving for 10 days of vacation tomorrow and don't need any surprises for when I come home. I trimmed up my plants tonight with a water change to get the tank all prepped for my time away. All of this will need to wait untill return now

 

Well you can make changes after holidays, but don't come knocking on my door .
Enjoy your holidays!

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Let me calculate my average planted tank with a volume of 14 gallon. Most are situated in a dark basement, so ambient light is negligible. Inert sand and no-CO2.

It has a 23 watts light (Twinstar B), which runs on average 7% of its intensity, but let's round this up to 10%, which equals 2.3 watts or 0.16 watts per gallon.

Plant growth is slow of course, but leaves are green, no signs of etiolation. and no algae anywhere.

There have been only a few plants that don't do well in these conditions, but I rather point the finger at CO2. The rock-tank I'm currently (re-)scaping has MC, R. wallichii and R. macandra. Can't get any more challenging plants in our hobby than these. OK, the light is at 20% at the moment, but plants do fine thanks to the CO2 (and good water flow, which I think is essential for MC).

Sorry if this defies popular opinion and definitely the industry's.

 

LOL, oh come on. You'll still help me!
I like that I don't have algae which is why I continue to run at 40%. It also helps in keeping the plant maintenance down, imo. The plants are really going to hate me during vacation because I took away the LED lighting and brought back my flouresecent lighting on a timer for this trip. The LED light that I do have, if power is cut it needs to be reset. I didn't want to come back to a tank that lights had been on full blast for days. The horror that tank would be. Eek! So they're gonna need some TLC and not aggressive lighting as soon as I get home.

And thank you, it's a much needed vacation!