Plant Fertilizer Dosing Schedule Questions.

I have been doing a lot of research into fertilizers for my 40b planted tank, but still have a few questions. I have a 36 inch finnex planted+ 24/7 light 2 inches above water and 2+ inches of of caribsea eco plant substrate with black sand underneath , currently dose Metricide 14, 6x a week 2.8ml, Easy Green 2x weekly, Iron 4ml 6x a week, and Flourish 3ml 2x weekly. I just ordered GLA dry ferts to dry dose using EI soon and quit liquid ferts. Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator. Also used this calculator to try and understand dosing and accumulation in tank.
What should I be dosing? Should I use every other day does like EI suggests for macros then micros or should I do low tech weekly dose? How much should I be dosing for each one? I do weekly water changes about 30% and sometimes 50% if needed. 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, 10-20ppm nitrates, GH 8, KH 7, pH 7.4.

Thanks in advance!!

 

Hello
Is all depend on what kid of plants you have most fertilizers will have specific dose most likely 2.ml per 10.gal however more lighting you use more fertilizer should be increased as well with Co2 to balance out, wrong balance will cause algae grow for example high amount fertilizer and not enough lights will spike algae grow.. you have to play with settings it takes months to figure out correct balance.

 

Hello
Is all depend on what kid of plants you have most fertilizers will have specific dose most likely 2.ml per 10.gal however more lighting you use more fertilizer should be increased as well with Co2 to balance out, wrong balance will cause algae grow for example high amount fertilizer and not enough lights will spike algae grow.. you have to play with settings it takes months to figure out correct balance.

I don't know what the one plant is. It's the plant between the moneywort 12-15 stems and hornwort 12-15 stems and not the anacharis to the left 3 stems. This is an older picture about 2 weeks ago as my wife is sleeping and tank is in bedroom. It may be rotala indica and there's about 10 stems. I also have anubias (2), java ferns 1 bigger plant and 3-4 small offspring around tank, red ludwigia(much healthier and growing better with current ferts and lighting) 3-4 stems, red flame sword 1 big plant, dwarf sag which is recovering from melt because of iron deficiency 6-8 plants, and these last two in the 2nd and 3rd pictures that I'm unsure about.
Based on pictures, can the plants be identified? Also, can you suggest how much I dry dose based on those plants? Rough estimates would be great!!

Thanks

 

I don't know what the one plant is. It's the plant between the moneywort 12-15 stems and hornwort 12-15 stems and not the anacharis to the left 3 stems. This is an older picture about 2 weeks ago as my wife is sleeping and tank is in bedroom. It may be rotala indica and there's about 10 stems. I also have anubias (2), java ferns 1 bigger plant and 3-4 small offspring around tank, red ludwigia(much healthier and growing better with current ferts and lighting) 3-4 stems, red flame sword 1 big plant, dwarf sag which is recovering from melt because of iron deficiency 6-8 plants, and these last two in the 2nd and 3rd pictures that I'm unsure about.
Based on pictures, can the plants be identified? Also, can you suggest how much I dry dose based on those plants? Rough estimates would be great!!

Thanks View attachment 467484

Here's other photos!

 

First think you need to do is trim old leafs ASAP either bad leafs will trying to absorb more nutrition in water and your other leafs will suffer.. number two add some fertilizer tabs and place them in gravel 2 inches deep about 5 inches apart an start adding liquid fertilizer and leaf zone booster once week with %25 water change every week.. also monitor your lights try medium lights for 8 hours and see.. Stick with regular schedule put light on automated timer and add fertilizer same days.. for example Monday do regular Fert and next day add leaf zone boost..

 

What should I be dosing? Should I use every other day does like EI suggests for macros then micros or should I do low tech weekly dose?

For low-tech EI dosing (i.e. no CO2 injection, low light), most people follow alternate dosing of micros and macros on a daily basis at 1/3rd of the standard concentrations. One of the purposes of alternating micros and macros is to minimise precipitation of iron and phosphate.

 

First think you need to do is trim old leafs ASAP either bad leafs will trying to absorb more nutrition in water and your other leafs will suffer.. number two add some fertilizer tabs and place them in gravel 2 inches deep about 5 inches apart an start adding liquid fertilizer and leaf zone booster once week with %25 water change every week.. also monitor your lights try medium lights for 8 hours and see.. Stick with regular schedule put light on automated timer and add fertilizer same days.. for example Monday do regular Fert and next day add leaf zone boost..

All the leaves have been cut off that were bad. I normally keep up with that. Starting EI dosing method to see it clears up any lingering plant issues. If not, I will get some root tabs, but will wait several weeks before jumping into things! Thanks! I'll update as things progress.

 

For low-tech EI dosing (i.e. no CO2 injection, low light), most people follow alternate dosing of micros and macros on a daily basis at 1/3rd of the standard concentrations. One of the purposes of alternating micros and macros is to minimise precipitation of iron and phosphate.

I will be dosing 1/8 tsp. KNO3, 1/32 tsp. K2SO4, and 1/32 tsp KH2PO4. I will dose on next day 1/8+1/32 tsp. of Plantex CSM+B. I will do a weekly water change as well. Plantex has iron in it correct? I thought it did which is why I was dosing a little more with it and I would get like 0.2-0.35ppm iron. Had iron deficiency and have been dosing Flourish iron at 4ml per day. Is my dry dosing similar to that? Thanks for your help! Anything else you may think of, please send my way. I will await your opinion.

 

If not, I will get some , but will wait several weeks before jumping into things!

There's really two schools of thought about root tabs: (1) useful and should always used; and (2) no point if dosing ferts directly into the water column.

Tom Barr (the developer of EI dosing) often cites research that aquatic plants don't express a preference between substrate uptake (via roots) or water column uptake (via aerial roots and leaves) for nutrients.

If there's a plant showing deficiencies and fert concentration isn't an issue, a more likely explanation is that the plant is in a circulation deadzone. A powerhead/wave maker is a cheaper long-term solution.

Plantex has iron in it correct?

Correct. The issue is that the iron present in Plantex CSM-B is chelated as EDTA, which is only stable in acidic conditions. At a pH of 7.5, approximately only 5-10% of the iron is readily available for uptake by plants, while the vast majority of it has dissociated.

A 0.2 mg/L iron concentration for 40 gallons would require 464 mg of Plantex CSM-B, so to reach a target of 0.35 mg/L while factoring in a pH of 7.4 you're looking at 8,120-16,240 mg of Plantex (unfortunately I don't use teaspoon measurements, so I'm unsure what the equivalent would be!). I wouldn't dose this much Plantex to suppy iron, as there's some documentation at planted tank regarding micronutrient toxicity when overdosing Plantex CSM-B (or any micro fert).

A long-term solution that'll save money is to supplement Plantex CSM-B (which is fine for other trace elements) with a separate DTPA chelated iron, which is 50% stable at a pH of 7.5. You can also continue to use Flourish Iron, but because it's iron gluconate, it'll need to be dosed daily as it tends to precipitate within 24 hours.

 

The following is an example of an annual cost comparison using different sources of iron to dose a 0.2 mg/L Fe concentration in my 47 gallon CO2 injected tank with a pH of 6.5 during photoperiod (pH of 7.5 during off-period). Note that Plantex CSM-B isn't available in Aus.

Flourish Comprehensive, AUD25 for 500ml, 11.98 ml per dose (7 times a week): annual cost AUD218.40.

Flourish Iron, AUD25 for 500ml bottle, 3.6 ml per dose (7 times a week): annual cost AUD65.52.

DTPA 9% Iron, AUD10 for 100 grams, 0.4 mg per dose (3 times a week): annual cost AUD8.30.

I would expect that using a DTPA iron chelate would be the cheapest solution for you as well.

 

The following is an example of an annual cost comparison using different sources of iron to dose a 0.2 mg/L Fe concentration in my 47 gallon CO2 injected tank with a pH of 6.5 during photoperiod (pH of 7.5 during off-period). Note that Plantex CSM-B isn't available in Aus.

Flourish Comprehensive, AUD25 for 500ml, 11.98 ml per dose (7 times a week): annual cost AUD218.40.

Flourish Iron, AUD25 for 500ml bottle, 3.6 ml per dose (7 times a week): annual cost AUD65.52.

DTPA 9% Iron, AUD10 for 100 grams, 0.4 mg per dose (3 times a week): annual cost AUD8.30.

I would expect that using a DTPA iron chelate would be the cheapest solution for you as well.

Thanks for the help!!! I will dose the 1/32 tsp. for plantex then. Is chelated iron bad for shrimp, snails, or any fish. I just want to make sure before buying things.

 

Iron chelate is absolutely fine. When you read the term chelated fertiliser, it refers to a nutrient (typically iron in planted tanks) that is bound with another compound (e.g. EDTA, DTPA) to improve its solubility in water and to improve the rate of uptake by plants while also minimising its tendency to precipitate.

Free iron, as an example, rapidly reacts with oxygen and forms rust, which plants (generally) can't use as a source of iron. Chelated iron preserves the iron in a way that let's the plant still make use of the iron.

 

Iron chelate is absolutely fine. When you read the term chelated fertiliser, it refers to a nutrient (typically iron in planted tanks) that is bound with another compound (e.g. EDTA, DTPA) to improve its solubility in water and to improve the rate of uptake by plants while also minimising its tendency to precipitate.

Free iron, as an example, rapidly reacts with oxygen and forms rust, which plants (generally) can't use as a source of iron. Chelated iron preserves the iron in a way that let's the plant still make use of the iron.

Awesome!!! I will have to buy some once I am getting low on the Flourish Iron as I got the 500ml bottle. Plants are starting to take off which I'm pumped about. That was all liquid ferts and iron and started dry dosing so we shall see how much more they will take off. Could I dose more metricide 14 if I get more than the minute algae I see now? My 4 amano shrimp like cleaning the plants too so I don't want to take it all away, just keep it like 98% gone.
Got some seeds that I am growing emersed in a old 5.5g tank. Here's a picture of what they will look like. Any idea what it could be? It's supposed to be a ground cover. Thanks again!

 

Could I dose more metricide 14 if I get more than the minute algae I see now?

I'd be careful dosing Metricide 14 over the manufacturer recommendations. Like Seachem Excel, Metricide 14 is a dilute solution of gluteraldehyde and in high concentrations, it becomes highly toxic. For example, in Australia (and I'd assume the US as well), concentrated gluteraldehyde is used as a commercial cleaner for disinfecting chicken coops!

If algae arises, I'd just recommend spot treating it with ~5-10 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide (can usually pick it up at any pharmacist as it's commonly used to disinfect cuts/scrapes) or to reduce lighting over a week to see if the algae reduces.

The other option is to explore CO2, either pressurised or DIY.

 

I don't know much of anything about planted tanks but I like to pretend to fit in so here's a couple things from my little aquaponic system that might relate in some way. I wish my herbs and vegetables could get everything they need from the fish food but iron and potassium seem to require constinuous supplement.
I only fiddle with one thing at a time. With plant leaves above the water line, it is nice to be able to test the effect of something on only one plant with a foliar feeding first.

I find it real unhandy to try measure stuff like 1/32 of a teaspoon. is pretty inexpensive and measures to the nearest 0.01 grams. I've been using it for six months and it makes things a lot easier.

Instead of treating the whole system with different stuff at different intervals, I find it easier to dose all the replacement water all the time. To begin with I'll dose for water volume in the system then maintain it with replacement water. The recipe changes occasionally depending on the needs of the plants of course.
The current recipe for replacement water is:

• 
  11 quarts dechlorinated water
  .3 grams iron chelate DTPA (10%)
  .5 grams potassium sulfate
  1.5 teaspoons liquid kelp

Thanks for this conversation. Enjoyed reading it and learned a few things.

 

I'd be careful dosing Metricide 14 over the manufacturer recommendations. Like Seachem Excel, Metricide 14 is a dilute solution of gluteraldehyde and in high concentrations, it becomes highly toxic. For example, in Australia (and I'd assume the US as well), concentrated gluteraldehyde is used as a commercial cleaner for disinfecting chicken coops!

If algae arises, I'd just recommend spot treating it with ~5-10 ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide (can usually pick it up at any pharmacist as it's commonly used to disinfect cuts/scrapes) or to reduce lighting over a week to see if the algae reduces.

The other option is to explore CO2, either pressurised or DIY.

I'll keep my Metricide dosing in check! I've read that it's pretty hefty stuff. I had the 24/7 cycle on for the finnex planted + as well. I have been turning it off around 10pm and back on like 8am so I'm hoping that will help. I've been doing that for a week or so. Before it was on all the time as I didn't buy a timer for light when I was out of town for 5 days. I've been wanting to do CO2, but need to save for that. I also want to how well I can do with a planted tank so I don't spend the money and then my plants die and I'm left with nothing to grow. Is DIY CO2 fairly easy?

 

Is DIY CO2 fairly easy?

Oh it's incredibly easy. This thread over at planted tank is a fairly extensive resource on the citric acid/baking soda method of DIY CO2 (which is what I use).

It doesn't offer the "set and forget" convenience of pressurised CO2, but the citric acid method is fairly low maintenance. Apart from refills, all I do is adjust at the start of the day to ensure that CO2 is flowing at the right rate. I otherwise have it paired with a solenoid and a timer so I needn't turn it off/on manually.

 

Oh it's incredibly easy. This thread over at planted tank is a fairly extensive resource on the citric acid/baking soda method of DIY CO2 (which is what I use).

It doesn't offer the "set and forget" convenience of pressurised CO2, but the citric acid method is fairly low maintenance. Apart from refills, all I do is adjust at the start of the day to ensure that CO2 is flowing at the right rate. I otherwise have it paired with a solenoid and a timer so I needn't turn it off/on manually.

I will have to check that out and see if any other questions arise! Thanks!

 

I don't know much of anything about planted tanks but I like to pretend to fit in so here's a couple things from my little aquaponic system that might relate in some way. I wish my herbs and vegetables could get everything they need from the fish food but iron and potassium seem to require constinuous supplement.
I only fiddle with one thing at a time. With plant leaves above the water line, it is nice to be able to test the effect of something on only one plant with a foliar feeding first.

I find it real unhandy to try measure stuff like 1/32 of a teaspoon. is pretty inexpensive and measures to the nearest 0.01 grams. I've been using it for six months and it makes things a lot easier.

Instead of treating the whole system with different stuff at different intervals, I find it easier to dose all the replacement water all the time. To begin with I'll dose for water volume in the system then maintain it with replacement water. The recipe changes occasionally depending on the needs of the plants of course.
The current recipe for replacement water is:

• 
  11 quarts dechlorinated water
  .3 grams iron chelate DTPA (10%)
  .5 grams potassium sulfate
  1.5 teaspoons liquid kelp

Thanks for this conversation. Enjoyed reading it and learned a few things.

So should I change the way I'm doing things? What do you mean by treat replacement water like at a water change? I'm just trying to understand so I can make best informed decision. Thanks for sharing!

 

So should I change the way I'm doing things? What do you mean by treat replacement water like at a water change? I'm just trying to understand so I can make best informed decision. Thanks for sharing!

I would never tell you to change what you are doing. I'm just explaining what I find easier. Instead of dosing the whole system, either on a periodic basis or waiting for symptoms to indicate it is time for another dose, I prefer to dose the system first, in my case 25 gallons, and then to add the same proportion of supplements to any additional water I add, whether I'm adding 1 gallon to replace evaporation and respiration. or more to replace water I've deliberately removed. Because this is easier for me doesn't necessarily mean it's right for you.

Besides the foliage of my plants being above the water line, another difference between us is I don't do water changes as often as you do. So far, the plants in my grow bed keep nitrates low enough that it isn't necessary. I occasionally remove some water by vacuuming the substrate but I don't even do that as often as you might think because I'd prefer the fish manure break down and return the minerals and other nutrients to the plants. I'm feeding my fish a lot of high-quality vegetables in addition to their high protein fish food so they consume more vitamins and minerals than they need. I like doing it this way because it is good for the plants and it gives Sara and Maybelle the opportunity to forage which they seem to enjoy and are instinctually driven to do.

So once or twice a week I get out my biggest cooking vessel, a three-gallon stock pot and dechlorinate 2¾ gallons of water by boiling and letting it de-gas for a day or so. Then I add the supplements according to the recipe above and bottle it in two-quart jugs to be added to the fish tank as needed. Now if I wasn't going to eat the plants I'm growing in that water I might dechlorinate chemically with a product like Prime which is more convenient but not recommended for use with fish or plants intended for human consumption.

So good luck my friend. Thanks for starting this conversation and allowing me to participate in it. Let anything I say that doesn't apply or make sense just roll off your shoulders like fish water off a duck's back.

 

I would never tell you to change what you are doing. I'm just explaining what I find easier. Instead of dosing the whole system, either on a periodic basis or waiting for symptoms to indicate it is time for another dose, I prefer to dose the system first, in my case 25 gallons, and then to add the same proportion of supplements to any additional water I add, whether I'm adding 1 gallon to replace evaporation and respiration. or more to replace water I've deliberately removed. Because this is easier for me doesn't necessarily mean it's right for you.

Besides the foliage of my plants being above the water line, another difference between us is I don't do water changes as often as you do. So far, the plants in my grow bed keep nitrates low enough that it isn't necessary. I occasionally remove some water by vacuuming the substrate but I don't even do that as often as you might think because I'd prefer the fish manure break down and return the minerals and other nutrients to the plants. I'm feeding my fish a lot of high-quality vegetables in addition to their high protein fish food so they consume more vitamins and minerals than they need. I like doing it this way because it is good for the plants and it gives Sara and Maybelle the opportunity to forage which they seem to enjoy and are instinctually driven to do.

So once or twice a week I get out my biggest cooking vessel, a three-gallon stock pot and dechlorinate 2¾ gallons of water by boiling and letting it de-gas for a day or so. Then I add the supplements according to the recipe above and bottle it in two-quart jugs to be added to the fish tank as needed. Now if I wasn't going to eat the plants I'm growing in that water I might dechlorinate chemically with a product like Prime which is more convenient but not recommended for use with fish or plants intended for human consumption.

So good luck my friend. Thanks for starting this conversation and allowing me to participate in it. Let anything I say that doesn't apply or make sense just roll off your shoulders like fish water off a duck's back.

How you just explained it made sense! My plants are growing much faster with dry ferts, but still need time to really start sucking up nitrates consistently. I've heard about plants that can go in the back of HOB filters, but some of the same ones suggested are not safe for cats. We have two of them, and they are not allowed in bedroom where tank is, but they are maine coons and have opened doors. Any idea of plants that I could use in my HOB to reduce nitrates that are safe for cats? Could I use plants instead of filter pads with the carbon in it? I also saw filter media that could go into HOB filters as Cory from Aquarium Co-op showed online to make them much more effective. Could I do filter media and a plant or one or the other? What plants are you growing in your aquarium? I'm liking the discussions on here and learning new and different ways of accomplishing things. Hopefully I didn't ask too many questions.

 

What plants are you growing in your aquarium?

Of all those questions, I'm afraid that's the only one I feel qualified to answer.

None in the aquarium.
In the grow bed at the moment; parsley, mint, thyme, dandelion, basil, sage, and rosemary.

 

Of all those questions, I'm afraid that's the only one I feel qualified to answer.

None in the aquarium.
In the grow bed at the moment; parsley, mint, thyme, dandelion, basil, sage, and rosemary.

Gotcha!!! That's really cool though! Thank you.