Pineconed fish rapid breathing and some kind of fungus.

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Tuufy, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Have treated with marycy and marycyn 2

    now treating with APi fungus cure

    Yesterday my tetra started to display pineconing and bloating..........................and rapid breathing???

    Could it be internal parasites? and the fungus is a 2ndary infection?

    He is staying near the top of the water does anyone know what is happening?
     
  2. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    I'm sorry your fish are ill. :(
    Is it possible to post a picture and your water parameters?

    It might help the members figure out what is going on.
     
  3. Shawnie

    ShawnieFishlore LegendMember

    Oh no! :(

    Pineconing isnt a good sign. I agree with Lucy that needing your current water parimeters, would be the first place to start. With the meds used already, I would try to go with a couple of small water changes a day, with the prime.
     




  4. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Have been using prime with water changes as required by the meds I have been using.

    Paramater are I have been keeping a close eye on the ammonia as the tank is not cycled as it is a hospital tank that has been recently set up.

    5g tank currently has 2 fish ammonia has been under "safe' levels according to the api test strips. the "fungus" has been ongoing for a while now

    Most recent change is have put a bubbler into the tank to increase oxygen in the water just to be safe.' oh and put some gravel into the bottom to help hold the waste poop!

    Most recent photo to follow

    here is the most recent posted photo, there are others on a previous thread.

    Could it be an internal parasite?

    1037pm just got home, he is still in the same condition.................................
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2012
  5. Wendy Lubianetsky

    Wendy LubianetskyWell Known MemberMember

    Just a word of warning. The test strips are very unreliable and there is no safe zone. If it says that it is misleading you. The only safe ammonia is a reading of 0 ammonia. That could be part of your problem. What do you nitrites look like?
     




  6. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Well this will sound cruel and heartless, but perhaps, at this point, euthenization is best. Finding whats causing dropsey is a PAIN, and not just for us, for the fish too. Organ failure is a general cause of dropsey, what causes organ failure can be any number of things.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    I was thinking the same thing soltarian, it will be the first time I have done this if I can do it, but he is still alive this morning, hanging onto his life, but having more trouble swimming. I will keep you posted. I have been treating with prime every time I have done a water change, I have checked with the strips on both my cycled main tank and my uncycled hospital tank, I understand that the only"safe" level of ammonia is 0 however that is where prime steps in, so I dont think it is ammonia poisoning, I think there is something else going on and the skin infection I have been battling for the last couple of weeks is secondary, as he has got weaker, it has become more prevelant and more obvious that something else was going on. He has shown no signs of distress during this time, until the last day or so, I asked about internal parasites as that was something I havent treated for....................????????

    SHould I do a water change using the cycled tank water to rid the tank of medicine?

    Is there anything I can do to bring him back from the brink? seeing as he is trying to hold on to his life?
     
  8. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    You know that Prime is only temporary right? I mean, yes its an amazing product in the event of a spike or cycle crash, but the idea is that you remove the byproduct through water changes and cycled filter media. To get rid of meds you should do water changes and run active carbon in the filter.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Yes I do know that but thanks for double checking, :;rocker

    I have been doing water changes as directed on the medication, or as I deemed fit due to my water parameters, which today are ammonia .5 no nitrates no nitrites, like I said this tank is not cycled so I have been doing everything to ensure the fish (2) are safeguarded while being treated, therefore everytime I have done a water change I have treated the whole tank size with prime, vaccumed the tank, washed the ornament in tank water, cleaned the inside of the glass, rinsed the bio filter in tank water, the carbon filter is old,but I took it out as I am medicating the fish and didnt want to compromise the medication.

    Now what to do next? Is there anything I can do for this one fish?

    What could I use to the best if it is internal parasites?

    I am thinking maybe that is the root cause, like I said earlier the growth (now growths) start to come back as soon as I stop using the medication, now the one fish that is pine coning is probably a lost cause but I have another fish in the tank as he is having the same issue with some kind of bacteria that has twice come back in the same spot on his tail as soon as I stop using the maracyn2

    In total I have used maracyn, maracy 2 and am now tryin the api fungus cure, it is only the last few days I have come to realize that this is probably a secondary infection rather than primary, if it is something internal it would be the first time to deal with this and I dont know right now what I should do........................???
     
  10. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    mela and prima fix combo.
     
  11. catsma_97504Fishlore LegendMember

    I'm sorry your fish is still worrying you.

    You might try an Epsom Salt bath. Use tank water so you don't stress the fish and add 1 Tbsp Epsom Salt per gallon. Keep this water well oxygenated and heated and leave fish in it for several hours.

    Epsom Salt draws out water which might help reduce the bloat and pineconing.

    Good luck.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    I thought you shouldnt use salt on fish once you have used medication?

    He is still alive but he is swimming in circles occasionally and is starting to have trouble staying upright.

    I think I am going to euthanize him
     
  13. soltarianknight

    soltarianknightFishlore VIPMember

    Id go ahead and try the Epsom treatment, its a bath, not a med. You generally make the solution in a container and give the fish a bath in it. Although, depending on the cause, it may not be actually fixing the problem, just treating a symptom.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    OK so my GH 180 ppm KH 240 so i found on the site that I should put in 1 tsp per gallon, I dont know if that will effect the GH and KH..................
    I am about to do a water change to get rid of the meds in there. then will add the epsom salts, fingers crossed..................
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  15. catsma_97504Fishlore LegendMember

    The Epsom Salt treatment is a bath and is not done in the tank. You move tank water into a bucket with aeration and heat as the fish should stay in the bath for several hours. If at any time you notice the fish becoming stressed, return to the tank.

    Once treatment has ended, return fish to the tank.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Well I can only do it in the tank as it is a 5g tank and I ahve nothing else smaller at this time, tomorrow I will do several small water change to reduce the salt in the tank and see how he is doing of course. I will keep you posted.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    So far have done 50% water change to remove salt, he is looking less bloated today, anything more I Can do for him?
     
  18. cameronpalteValued MemberMember

    Please double check my information. I am placing some ideas out there but am not 100% sure. I don't want to do anything that can make things worse.

    To start do you have activated carbon in your filter? Activated carbon may of removed the medications from the water rendering them ineffective. To start, keep your filter running but removed activated carbon.

    Now put in full dose melafix + pimafix daily for 3 days. Observe for any changes if no changes switch to maracyn + maracyn 2 for 3 days. Maracyn is gram positive if I recall which means it may kill of some of your filter bacteria, but we will assess that problem later.

    Salt seems to be doing good so every other day, give him a salt bath and see how that works. Put 3/4 dose salt (3/4 tbs/gallon) and don't change the water, allow him to stay unless he looks worse.

    If you must euthanize him put him there are instructions in the freshwater fish disease section, its a sticky.

    Also when you say hes improved, please post more pictures to help us now:).

    Best of luck!
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    No I took the filter out, I would rather put the filter in though, I think I am going to take the carbon out so the filter can filter the water coz the "bio filter" hasnt been doing much in the way of filtering and poop and or decayed food or whatever it was, was starting to cling to everything, which must not be a very good environment for any fish let alone a sick one.

    So Cameronpalte

    As of now he is salt free and meds free, I had previously dosed with Marycyn, then marycyn 2 then both of them together and none of them were doing much good, as soon as I stopped the meds, the bacteria white fungus growth on the base of his tail came back.

    Then he started to show signs of bloating, in the meantime I treated him with api fungus cure which says its active ingredients are victoria green b and acriflavine.

    Then yesterday he was treated with epsom salts, it is a 5g tank with only one other fish in there who also has some kind of bacteria, I am doing water changes every day and treating with prime, I am working the water over prior to putting into the tank to rid the water of any supersaturated gases, I think before I try melafix and pimafix I am going to try a garlic treatment, I have just made up some garlic juice and will put it in the tank with him.

    Garlic as we know has lots of beneficial properties and is a natural antibiotic, so I am going to put that in the tank, for the next 3 days tomorrow I will put some more epsom salt in as it seemed to do him some good. He is looking much less pineconed than he was, still bloated but way not as bad as he was, his skin still looks very tatty now, hopefully the garlic will help with that too.

    He is somewhat weak but is better than he was yesterday with that too, he is swimming a bit better and is displaying the fright reflex a little. I am trying as best as possible to describe what he is looking like coz the pictures I am taking are not coming out that well, I dont know how to take piccies of little fish and only have a point and shoot camera..................

    I was close to euthanizing him but for now, will keep going and see what happens, thanks for the link though just in case.:;batman

    OH and went to feed my fish in my main tank and found a dead neon, now obvious signs of death, everything looked normal, put him under the microscope my daughter has and his skin looks normal as far as I could tell, nothing visible in his eye, scales were looking normal, no sighs of external parasites............... which is what I was looking for, but then again maybe I didnt have the magnification up high enough...........................???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2012
  20. OP
    OP
    Tuufy

    TuufyValued MemberMember

    Update

    Gave him the first of the garlic treatment last night, I also set up a fan to blow air over the surface of the water to help reduce the temp of the water as lower temps are supposed to help ease the symptoms of bloating ( this I found out after doing some research) and at this point I amlsot have nothing to lose I thought!

    This morning got the tank temp down to 75', ( research suggests a tetra can live in as low as 72' please correct me if I am wrong :;thx ) anyway......................this morning he is doing well, he looks almost down to normal on one side of his body, the other not so much, but less than it was, he is still panting but his breathing is no where near as laboured as it was, his skin is still looking tatty from the pineconing, probably loosing a few scales........., but the big lump on the base of his tail is all but gone and his tail shape is about back to normal as well.

    I will continue with the garlic treatment in his tank for the recommended amount of time, with daily water changes and will see what happens, if anything takes a turn for the worse I can use melafix/pimafix or combo as I already have both on hand.............

    Anyone have any idea how I can take a picture of a small fish with a point and shoot camera???????
     




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