Pin/Needle Tail Guppy Breeding

Hello fishy friends!
So i was breeding a line of tuxedo short tails and one of the males wound up developing a perfect pin.




(Pic doesnt quite show it all.) I want to breed these these guys but attempts to find ANY true pin/needle tail guppies online is an exercise in futility. I have found very very little info on pin tail genetics (that i am just now beginning to understand). A second generation of fry produced three distinct tail types in the males - coffer tail and delta. Some juveniles seemed to develop a flame tail style, but much to my great annoyance, the pin trait is expressing itself on the delta tails, resulting in jagged, sloppy tails.

Has anyone else experimented with pin/tail types before? How could i successfully achieve a true breeding line of pins? Im slightly anxious, because this male is over 6 months old, but is still actively breeding. Suggestions? I am loath to let this line go.

 

Very pretty fish, perhaps emeraldking can give you some pointers

 

Okalee dokalee! I also had the thought that this may be better as a fish breeding log. Theres so very little info on pintails that i think i may have to develop it on my own and keep super meticulous notes. And ive never line-bred before, so i have NO idea what im doing, lol!

 

I don't have much experience with selectively breeding, but I seem to keep coming back to research posted by Alan S. Bias on guppy breeding.

The Pin Tail is #162 on the chart.
Link: https://www.academia.edu/29928596/Poecilia_reticulata_Domestic_Breeder_Trait_Matrix_Reference_Guide
Bias, Alan, Carl Groenewegen. "Breeder Trait Matrix Reference Guide." Academia. Web. 1, Nov. 2020

Here are some links that I hope may help you, I know I learned a bit from them, and they gave me some 'food for thought'.
https://www.academia.edu/5545607/Misconceptions_based_on_Phenotypical_Observations, https://www.academia.edu/5545575/BREEDING_STRATEGIES_and_GENETIC_MANIPULATION_IN_GUPPIES

This link is simply in case it might be interesting to you. It is certainly not the only option of how to design a fishroom. https://www.academia.edu/15552470/B...Change_and_The_Use_of_Single_Point_Filtration

 

I don't have much experience with selectively breeding, but I seem to keep coming back to research posted by Alan S. Bias on guppy breeding.

The Pin Tail is #162 on the chart.
Link: https://www.academia.edu/29928596/Poecilia_reticulata_Domestic_Breeder_Trait_Matrix_Reference_Guide
Bias, Alan, Carl Groenewegen. "Breeder Trait Matrix Reference Guide." Academia. Web. 1, Nov. 2020

Here are some links that I hope may help you, I know I learned a bit from them, and they gave me some 'food for thought'.
https://www.academia.edu/5545607/Misconceptions_based_on_Phenotypical_Observations, https://www.academia.edu/5545575/BREEDING_STRATEGIES_and_GENETIC_MANIPULATION_IN_GUPPIES

This link is simply in case it might be interesting to you. It is certainly not the only option of how to design a fishroom. https://www.academia.edu/15552470/B...Change_and_The_Use_of_Single_Point_Filtration

Alan Bias is a good source.

If you can not find a proper female or females with the pintail trait (they won´t show it phenotypically but they carry it genotypically), you could try to seek for virgin females that are recessive for the traits of their own strain. Preferably from a roundtail strain. And best without any coloration in the fins or skin. This doesn't mean that all male offspring will become pintails. But a reasonable number will have a roundtail and closer to pintail. A good base to work with if you don't mind investing time. For linebreeding is a time consuming project.

 

Yes! That genetics chart pretty much has it spot on with what I am seeing in the second generation of fish. I have pintail, round tail and delta tail. Unfortunately, most of the trait is trying to come out in the deltas, which like I said before, makes the fish look really ratty.

Fortunately, I do have some of the 1st gen daughters, which have the best chance of having the pintail trait. I also managed to pick up a really nice looking short tail fish that looks like it may have the potential to bring out a pin if I cross them with my first line. Maybe, maybe, maybe. My goal is to weed out the deltas.

I really must start a breeding log over on the other thread, LOL. But thank you for the reading! It was incredibly insightful.