pH Levels Not Stable

HI guys,

I got advice from you guys a while back on my fish tanks but now I'm having more issues. So I have two tanks one 15 gallon with 2 pea puffers (tank has been running for about 4 months), and another 10 gallon with one betta and five emerald eye rasboras (this tank has been running maybe 6 months?). I use the master test kit and check their water at least once a week. I'm having issues with the pH though. So I am currently using bottled glacier water for the tanks. I've explained this on here before but there is something wrong with my tap water and it kills fish within hours (while I'm doing all the right things for fish, acclimating them slowly, cycling the tank, using dechlorinator, using a heater and filter, etc). So I switched to bottled water to keep the fish alive. It's been working wonderfully even though it's a pain to refill the 5 gallon jugs each week. Haha. BUT I'm having problems with the pH now. I use equilibrium, acid buffer, and alkaline buffer all at the recommendation of someone on this forum a while back. I use the correct amount to set the water at a pH of 7.0. However, my tank is not staying at that pH. The ten gallon has been around 7.4 and the 15 has been at 8.4, which seems extremely high. I tried posting this on the Reddit subforum. But all I got was mostly attacks for using chemicals. I thought since it was someone here that recommended them to me, you guys may be able to help. I spent a lot of money on all the chemicals and they aren't working. I'm open to trying something else, but I need it to work. I don't have that much money to spend. One person on Reddit recommended crushed coral and driftwood but I don't know if that is enough to work with me using bottled water. Any help would be really appreciated. Please don't attack me for any of this. I'm trying my best to make the tanks perfect for the fish.

Thanks in advance!

 

This isn't Reddit...we don't attach here.

I must say I'm surprised that someone here would recommend chemically altering your pH. Most people here believe that altering your pH (except under special circumstances) is far more dangerous to the fish than having a pH outside their preferred zone. Almost all fish will do fine in any pH between 6 and 8.5. It is a little puzzling that since you are using the same source water, that the pH is different in the two tanks. There must be something in one of the tanks that is changing the pH level.

So my first advice would be to try to stop getting your pH to be 7.0. There is no need for it. But now the next thing is to find out why the pH of the two tanks differ. Are you using crushed coral or driftwood in any of your tank currently? Crushed coral will raise your pH and driftwood will lower your pH.

If you could test the pH, gH and kH of your source water and post the results it would go a long way in helping us figure out what is going on.

 

Like jdfeh stated fish can adapt to a large range of ph as long as its done slowly. I would think the bottled water your using has been stripped of its buffering minerals and it leads to ph swings. I would figure out what's wrong with your tap water, if it's safe to drink it's usually good enough for fish. The main issue is usually removing chlorine.

 

Jdhef, thanks. I need to just quit using Reddit.

I really don't have anything in the tanks that would change the pH. I have three moss balls in each, which are the only plants. The rest is aquarium décor (like a dinosaur skull thing and a volcano, and a tree stump thing (fake)) from the fish store and plastic plants.

I don't have a gH or kH testing kit. I only have the master test kit with pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

I think the issue is that the pH swings because of it not having the minerals in it that tap water does. I'm really scared to use tap water again because it killed numerous fish before. And I finally have fish that have been living fish 6+ months.

jpm995, I really haven't been able to figure out what's up with the tap water. I used prime, it tested clean for ammonia and nitrites... I just don't know what else to do.

Oh, here's the post that told me to use acid & alkaline buffer. It was CindiL? She seemed like she knew a lot?

 

Yeah, that's why I was wondering what you gH and kH were. But normally with low kH and gH if you get a pH swing it is usually down, not up. So that's why I thought maybe something in your tank is causing the pH to get so high.

 

Yeah, that's why I was wondering what you gH and kH were. But normally with low kH and gH if you get a pH swing it is usually down, not up. So that's why I thought maybe something in your tank is causing the pH to get so high.

So what should I do? I can order the gH and kH test kit and get it in a few days. But what will I do if one is high/low?

 

I guess what to do would depend on the test results. It it is low (which I suspect) a little crushed coral will help. If it is high, you would need to mix the water with some water with a lower gH/kH

 

I guess what to do would depend on the test results. It it is low (which I suspect) a little crushed coral will help. If it is high, you would need to mix
the water with some water with a lower gH/kH

But would I still be able to use the bottled water each time? Do I add extra coral in each time?

 

You would still be able to use bottled water. The coral will last a long time before needing to add more. And you'll most likely have plenty extra. The smallest bag of it I could find was 15 pounds and I used about a cup of it.

 

Might want to test the ph of your bottled water and your tap water. If your tap water is vastly different from your stores water [test that to] that could explain fish deaths.

 

Might want to test the ph of your bottled water and your tap water. If your tap water is vastly different from your stores water [test that to] that could explain fish deaths.

I bought them from different stores though.

Okay, I'm ordering a GH and KH test kit (I don't know if any of the stores around here carry it - Amazon will get it to me by Tuesday!). And I can get crushed coral from my local pet store. They sell it by the pound. Hopefully this works out. Should I get rid of all the chemicals, Equilibrium too?

 

We'll know for sure after we find out what your gH and kH are, but I suspect you will be able to stop using the chemicals.

 

We'll know for sure after we find out what your gH and kH are, but I suspect you will be able to stop using the chemicals.

Hi!

So I tested the water directly from the jug and the KH took one drop, the GH took 3-4 drops. Which is 17.9 and 53.7 ppm. What should I do from here? I bought crushed coral in case I needed it. I'm still worried about upping the pH since the pea puffer's tank is at 8.4. Let me know what you guys think! Thanks!

 

Okay, your gH and kH are pretty low. What is the pH of the jug water? (I would assume it to be less than 8.4) Just a thought, but could you test the gH and kH in the other two tanks?

So now to figure out why the pH in the puffer tank is so high. What are you using for a substrate? Back in the day, when I dabbled in Saltwater we used to put dolomite in as a substrate because it would bring the pH up to about 8.4

When you perform water changes on the puffer tank with the jug water, (which I am assuming is lower than 8.4) does the puffer tanks pH drop, then eventually rise up to 8.4?

Sorry for all questions and no answers, but we'll get this narrowed down hopefully and find a solution.

 

Okay, your gH and kH are pretty low. What is the pH of the jug water? (I would assume it to be less than 8.4) Just a thought, but could you test the gH and kH in the other two tanks?

So now to figure out why the pH in the puffer tank is so high. What are you using for a substrate? Back in the day, when I dabbled in Saltwater we used to put dolomite in as a substrate because it would bring the pH up to about 8.4

When you perform water changes on the puffer tank with the jug water, (which I am assuming is lower than 8.4) does the puffer tanks pH drop, then eventually rise up to 8.4?

Sorry for all questions and no answers, but we'll get this narrowed down hopefully and find a solution.

I'll check all of that right now. I'll get back to you in just a minute.

Okay, your gH and kH are pretty low. What is the pH of the jug water? (I would assume it to be less than 8.4) Just a thought, but could you test the gH and kH in the other two tanks?

So now to figure out why the pH in the puffer tank is so high. What are you using for a substrate? Back in the day, when I dabbled in Saltwater we used to put dolomite in as a substrate because it would bring the pH up to about 8.4

When you perform water changes on the puffer tank with the jug water, (which I am assuming is lower than 8.4) does the puffer tanks pH drop, then eventually rise up to 8.4?

Sorry for all questions and no answers, but we'll get this narrowed down hopefully and find a solution.

The pH of the jug water is 6.0. Possibly lower since the test doesn't go lower?

And magically, without changing the water, both tanks are at a pH of 7.6. I really don't understand how it's changing so much.

The KH of the 10 gallon is 5
The GH of the 10 gallon is 5

The KH of the 15 gal puffer tank is 7
The GH of the 15 gal puffer tank is 5

I'm not sure about the pH changes when I change the water. The tanks were stable, so I got a bit lazy about checking the parameters. I could try changing water now and see what happens? If so, should I treat the water with the chemicals as I normally do first?

Let me know what you think. Sorry for the trouble.

Oh, and as far as the tank, I've been using colored gravel from Petsmart, the tank decorations are just the normal ones sold at pet stores, a volcano, a skull thing, a roman head, a big tree trunk (fake), and then some plastic plants. I also have 3 moss balls in each tank.

This is the gravel:

 

Sounds like your jug water is 'softened water' which is stripped of minerals. It's hard to stabilize ph of soft water. I don't understand how your tanks ph is so high using this water unless your over doing the chemicals.

 

Sounds like your jug water is 'softened water' which is stripped of minerals. It's hard to stabilize ph of soft water. I don't understand how your tanks ph is so high using this water unless your over doing the chemicals.

I follow the directions exactly for a 7.0 pH tank.

 

Do you have any rock deco? Like some of your fake plants glued to them? Slate on the bottom of the wood? Any kind of rock besides gravel I'm looking for.

 

Do you have any rock deco? Like some of your fake plants glued to them? Slate on the bottom of the wood? Any kind of rock besides gravel I'm looking for.

Nope. Only gravel.

 

Natural gravel or painted gravel? Any sand?

Never mind, read back. Painted. Do you have the same gravel in both tanks?

 

I have the link above. Both tanks have colored gravel from Petsmart. No sand.

Yup. Same gravel.

 

Ok, the only thing I can come up with is because of the alkaline buffer, your KH went up. Your PH will also raise using the alkaline buffer. I'm guessing not enough acid buffer to drop it back down. And the reason why your GH is up because of the equilibrium.

Do you mix both inside the tank or in a separate container? Like in a 2 gallon bucket you mix all your chemicals then slowly add it to your tank?

Coral will raise your KH, but also raise your PH a little bit. Not a bad idea since your using bottle water.

Driftwood, peat moss, and almond leaves will drop your PH, but you have to be careful using the moss and leaves. Can drop your PH low, and since your working with bottle water, I would recommend to not really mess with the PH to much. Do very slow drops in the PH like no more then .3 to .5 drop per hour. Don't want to shock your fish.

But on the other side, if your fish are doing well, eating well, and swimming, no clamped fins, and acting like good healthy fish do, I really wouldn't mess with anything. I do not know anything about puffers though, so I'll leave that for others to discuss.

 

Ok, the only thing I can come up with is because of the alkaline buffer, your KH went up. Your PH will also raise using the alkaline buffer. I'm guessing not enough acid buffer to drop it back down. And the reason why your GH is up because of the equilibrium.

Do you mix both inside the tank or in a separate container? Like in a 2 gallon bucket you mix all your chemicals then slowly add it to your tank?

Coral will raise your KH, but also raise your PH a little bit. Not a bad idea since your using bottle water.

Driftwood, peat moss, and almond leaves will drop your PH, but you have to be careful using the moss and leaves. Can drop your PH low, and since your working with bottle water, I would recommend to not really mess with the PH to much. Do very slow drops in the PH like no more then .3 to .5 drop per hour. Don't want to shock your fish.

But on the other side, if your fish are doing well, eating well, and swimming, no clamped fins, and acting like good healthy fish do, I really wouldn't mess with anything. I do not know anything about puffers though, so I'll leave that for others to discuss.

Thanks for taking the time to try to figure it out! I really appreciate it. My fish have been fine. One of the pea puffers and the betta have been alive 6+ months with maybe like 4 of the months me doing the water this way. I just worry about the major changes in the pH long term.

Do you recommend leaving all the chemicals behind? Should I do anything with the coral/get driftwood? I worry about something that doesn't fix the water each time before I add it to the tank. Maybe that's a weird worry?

Oh, and my process for adding the chemicals = I put the measured amount for 5 gallons into the 5 gallon jug. I then shake it a bit and then add about 2 of the gallons to the 10 gallon and the other 3 to the pea puffer tank. So that's why I'm also confused why anything would be different between the tanks.

My best guess is that it's not enough to stabilize the pH so they are just going crazy because there isn't enough of a buffer? I don't know. I'm still fairly new to fish keeping.

ETA: the alkaline buffer says it only works with raising/lowering pH to 7.2-8.5. Maybe setting it at 7.0 was too low for it to properly buffer?

But now with everyone being against the chemicals, idk what to do.

 

Lol I don't blame you. My Bettas in 2 different tanks are thriving at 7.8 and 8.0 PH. I also have low KH from my tap so I use the alkaline buffer and aragonite sand to keep my KH balanced. The only other chemical I use is prime.

For you, I would keep using the equilibrium and alkaline buffer for your bottle water, and not really worry about the acid buffer unless you really want to drop the PH. I would also add sand to the tanks to make sure your KH don't bottom out then your PH crashes behind it.

Like I said, I don't know anything about puffers, so I don't know if them being in a higher PH is a good thing or not. I'll leave it to those that know puffers better.

Excuse me, not sand. Crushed coral or aragonite sand only. Inert sand will not help KH. You could also add small pieces of inert coral or shells to your tank for deco but also help buffer KH. I have some hermit crab feeding shells (half clam shells) in my tanks as well. Or you can put the crushed coral or aragonite sand in media bag and put it in your filter so no one has to see it. Or you can toss it on top of your gravel, but it will look like it snowed in your tank.

 

Excuse me, not sand. Crushed coral or aragonite sand only. Inert sand will not help KH. You could also add small pieces of inert coral or shells to your tank for deco but also help buffer KH. I have some hermit crab feeding shells (half clam shells) in my tanks as well. Or you can put the crushed coral or aragonite sand in media bag and put it in your filter so no one has to see it. Or you can toss it on top of your gravel, but it will look like it snowed in your tank.

I actually bought some bags and crushed coral the other day! I just haven't used it yet because I don't know what I'm doing. How much should I put in? I planned to squeeze it into my filter if there is enough room.

 

Just don't block up the flow of water to much. It's only going to take a couple of tablespoons per tank if you use it in your filter. You can also buy a media bag that looks like a super sized tea bag with a long string to put the coral in. Or a never been used knee high panty hose and rubber band the opening closed.

Coral dissolves slowly, so it will take awhile to go through that bag you bought. So keep using your alkaline buffer to help establish the KH and the coral to maintain it.

 

Okay...here is what I would do if it were me...

Well actually the first thing I would do would be to try to find bottled water that had a higher gH, kH and pH.

But if you are going to continue using the water you are using I would stop adding the pH altering chemical. I would then add some crushed coral to the tank. It's probably best to put it in a media bag and either stuff it into the filter if it will fit. If it dosen't fit, you could just put the media bag in the tank itself. Or you could sprinkle it in with your substrate.

It is a trial and error process. Add some, wait a day or two, test, add more if necessary, wait a day or two, test,,etc. Then once you have your water where you want it, you'll want to try to avoid large water changes, since that can cause a larger pH swing. So you would probably be better off doing smaller more frequent water changes.

Also, here is a link to a thread which you may find helpful: