PH/KH Problem

Need help with low ph as molly fish is lost colour and now flipping out. PH has been low for over a year now and I am at my wits end trying to sort it!

It started of shortly after tank remodel ... well this is when I notice as was wanting to make sure that things were going ok.

Change was making it more natural. Soil, two slate rocks, a log (Not sure type of wood) loads of plants.

Tank information

Size = 200l

Fish = ×2 leopard danio ×4 Molly ×5 neon tetra ×4 penguin tetra ×6 black widow ×3 Harlequin ×2 pleco ×2 sword tail

Water change = 30% every week and sucking poop

Filter clean = monthly

Filter = fluval 207

--------------- Aquarium water -- tap water
Gh mg/l ................... 25 - 70
Chlorine mg/l ............ 0 - 1
Nitrate mg/l ............... 10 - 0
Nitrite mg/l .................. 0 - 0
Total Alkalinity mg/l .......0 - 80
Carbonate Kh mg/l ......... 0 - 80
PH .................................... 6.0 - 7.2

Done so far.

Went thought 2 bottles of ph up

Then realised after research KH is directly linked to ph so got crush coral put it in the filter and larger chunks in the tank. At the same time I used a KH/ PH up.

Recently been told to put this large white rock with holes in the. Can't remember the name of the rock sorry.

Please help before the dent in the wall becomes a hole or I get brain damage hahaha

 

I'm not expert with mollies, but I think crushed coral will help. I got this suggestion from a YouTube video. I highly recommend that video. There is also the Girl Talks fish's one.

 

Hi Cory04

Have you got a link? I have been trying to sort this out for over a year had crushed coral in around 9 months and this other white rock in around a month and many treatments that are meant to help. However nothing is working

Anyone else got input all welcome

 

I think this will help too (I didn't watch it though):

 

Good videos, however I know what's wrong the PH and KH are low and can't get them up with anything I have tried in my post above. But thank you.

Still require help

Need help with low ph as molly fish is lost colour and now flipping out. (Note this about water not fish as trying to raise ph for others too). PH has been low for over a year now and I am at my wits end trying to sort it!

 

Ok, just to clarify here, your pH/KH in aquarium is 6.0/0 ppm, but from the tap its 7.2/80 ppm? I have only ever heard kH dropping like that over several months and with no water changes. How quick is this dropping back to 0? By the time of your next weekly 30% water change?

Only thing I am thinking of right at the start is that large piece of wood, tannins can lower pH/KH quite a bit.

I would take a bucket of tap water, measure pH/KH after about 24 hours, stick that big piece of wood in there, and measure it again after a few days. Also do this when you do a water change and see if your pH/KH drop in the aquarium was as extreme as it has been without the wood.

 

Ok, just to clarify here, your pH/KH in aquarium is 6.0/0 ppm, but from the tap its 7.2/80 ppm? I have only ever heard kH dropping like that over several months and with no water changes. How quick is this dropping back to 0? By the time of your next weekly 30% water change?

Only thing I am thinking of right at the start is that large piece of wood, tannins can lower pH/KH quite a bit.

Looks like his KH at tap is about 4 degrees but if he's using test strips it will show 80 ppm anyways. The actual KH is probably below 4, in which case the drop makes sense.

OP do you test with liquid or strips?

 

Hi sofa

Yes that is correct the reading were taking yesterday before the water change. I have just checked the water now and it's 40kh and 6.4 ph. If I check it on Wednesday I'd imagine it will be back down to 0kh and the lowest scale on my ph what is 6.0.

Yeah I was debating that wood got it from fish and aquarium shop. When I got it I could tell it was for a reptile tank but asked the bloke not sure if he was just happy for a sale, but personally thought it's just wood. Also had to screw the wood down to the rocks but the are sealed with aqurinm glue and been in well over year.

Do you think cutting a piece off the wood and doing a small scale experiment would have the same affect?

I have attached a image of the wood not sure of your skills looking at wood haha

Thanks

Hi Pfrozen

I have attached the test strips I am currently using for the last month got them ones hoping the op test strips would read differently but read the same

Thanks

 

Ok, total novice here, but I am very curious about how quickly this is dropping so trying to research. A couple more thoughts though...

1 - No idea what that wood is, and it may not be to blame, if you are ok cutting a little piece out to test, I would try it.
2 - My other thought is possibly the soil you used when you redid the tank. If the soil has a lot of peat in it, that would lower kH as well but usually this effect would only last a few months, not a year which is what you have had this running for.

I would maybe do a second small cup/bucket sample with some of your aquarium soil in it and tap water. Bet we could narrow it down to the wood and/or soil, I can't think of anything else that could be dropping KH by 80 ppm in just a matter of days.

Were you using only pH up? I know some of those products don't buff the KH at all. Something like Seachem Alkalinity would buff both pH and KH but obviously with how fast its dropping its not going to be worth it right now. If the crushed coral isn't work, or isn't enough, you could also try getting some limestone chips to help increase kH.

 

With test strips you may be reading 80 ppm but the reality is that your KH may be anywhere from 40 to 80 ppm. Your pH is dropping so I am guessing that your KH is just under the stability threshold. A KH of 4.5 will give you a constant and stable pH. Do not use chemical products to achieve this. I would remineralize your tap water with a little bit of Alkaline buffer just to raise your KH up to 4.5. Alternatively, you can add crushed coral to your filter. I prefer the remineralizing route because its easy to measure and will give you accurate and consistent results, but the popular choice here on Fishlore seems to be the crushed coral route. Either will work

 

I got my KH2 up to KH4 with only crushed coral, I mixed some in with my gravel and put some inside my internal filter which I clean often. I have high pH tho so it dissolves quite slowly. Remember to wash of gunk/biofilm from your filter coral every time you clean the filter to ensure it keeps releasing minerals better. You also might need to add more of it as it dissolves faster in lower pH.
But if the CC is just not enough to keep up the KH high enough you could look into the alkaline buffers to add with weekly water changes..

 

Sota
Not a problem you have giving me some tests I can do. Really hope that it is the wood be easy to fix. I'll do some control tests and see if it comes up with something.
Have used over a year, 2 bottles of api ph up. Then a bottle of KH conditioner, still just same result every time.

Pfrozen
My tap water is 80kh and 7.2 ph. My aquarium water even week befor I do a water change is 0kh and the lowest ph on the test strip 6.0. They do go up after the water change from around Sunday till Wednesday then start to disappear again.

I have went thought 2 bottles of api ph up. Then a bottle of KH conditioner. Know you said don't just letting you know. Could you send me a link for a alkaline buffer you would use (if on Amazon great)

For the last 8 months I have had one full section of my filter (fluval 207) filled with crush coral, in the main section of the tank I have large bits of crush coral scatter around. And for the last 2 month I have had a large white rock in tank that is meant to help (see photo)

Hi Nopsu
I have had crushed coral in tank filter 8 months and larger chunks in the tank. Water changes are done every Sunday 30% and filter even month using the water in the tank. All the information is in my fist post sorry about how much there is just trying to give as much to get an answer

Edit
Oooo I just forgot to mention a big thing this isn't my only tank I have 2. The other one is 90l same water gets used for both and that one is perfect. So in other words it's something with the tank.

 

Sota
Not a problem you have giving me some tests I can do. Really hope that it is the wood be easy to fix. I'll do some control tests and see if it comes up with something.
Have used over a year, 2 bottles of api ph up. Then a bottle of KH conditioner, still just same result every time.

Pfrozen
My tap water is 80kh and 7.2 ph. My aquarium water even week befor I do a water change is 0kh and the lowest ph on the test strip 6.0. They do go up after the water change from around Sunday till Wednesday then start to disappear again.

I have went thought 2 bottles of api ph up. Then a bottle of KH conditioner. Know you said don't just letting you know. Could you send me a link for a alkaline buffer you would use (if on Amazon great)

For the last 8 months I have had one full section of my filter (fluval 207) filled with crush coral, in the main section of the tank I have large bits of crush coral scatter around. And for the last 2 month I have had a large white rock in tank that is meant to help (see photo)

Hi Nopsu
I have had crushed coral in tank filter 8 months and larger chunks in the tank. Water changes are done every Sunday 30% and filter even month using the water in the tank. All the information is in my fist post sorry about how much there is just trying to give as much to get an answer

Edit
Oooo I just forgot to mention a big thing this isn't my only tank I have 2. The other one is 90l same water gets used for both and that one is perfect. So in other words it's something with the tank.

What I'm saying is that your tap water is NOT 80 ppm KH. those test strips aren't accurate. If you have 40 ppm KH it will often still show up as 80 ppm.

You need to buy a liquid test kit to get the proper reading. If your KH was truly 80 ppm KH then your pH wouldn't move. That's just science, it applies to every aquarium in the world. KH over 4 and your pH doesn't move, period. 4.5 is the sweet spot for stability

 

I'm not an expert but I have very soft water with low GH and KH too.
My PH used drop out to 6 on my API master test kit. Tests 7 from tap.

I was told not to use the PH up/down stuff as you're always chasing it and adding chemicals.

I have crushed coral in my filter and in the filter flow.
I have bought some Seachem Equilibrium.
It adds minerals to the water and increases the GH.

I dont put a lot in, just a little at a time.
I have managed to maintain the PH in my tanks at 7.4 ish.
With a KH of about 4 and GH 8.

 

Pfrozen

Sorry think there is a bit of metric / imperial going on here haha, well different units of measurements.

Commonly Kh is measure in dKH this is 1,2,3 etc
The strips I am currently using measure in mg/l or ppm
Conversion is 1 dKH = 17.9 mg/l or ppm
4.5 dGH is 80.55 mg/l or ppm
Thus your sweet spot is what my Tap water is......However my tank is Zero dKH that converted also come to Zero mg/l or ppm magically.

I have ordered some liquid water tests and api strips but I imagine I will get the same reading.

P.s. clue is something is wrong with the tank as my other tank is fine

Hi Jo

Something is wrong with my tank my other tank is perfect. For some reason the KH and PH just keep getting sucked away. The Gh is in very soft too. But my other tank has same water and is perfect conditions. I have tried potions (Know they are not the best). But got the coral and some wired large white rock that's meant to help haha.

A person suggested a few test to do so I am going to get my lab coat on and do the following see if something is sucking the levels down.

1 test a section of the wood in some tapwater

2 test with the soil

3 test the slate rock (dought anything)

4 control just tap water

I'll post by the weekend what the results are or if I give up hahah.

Thank you for you input

 

Pfrozen

Sorry think there is a bit of metric / imperial going on here haha, well different units of measurements.

Commonly Kh is measure in dKH this is 1,2,3 etc
The strips I am currently using measure in mg/l or ppm
Conversion is 1 dKH = 17.9 mg/l or ppm
4.5 dGH is 80.55 mg/l or ppm
Thus your sweet spot is what my Tap water is......However my tank is Zero dKH that converted also come to Zero mg/l or ppm magically.

I have ordered some liquid water tests and api strips but I imagine I will get the same reading.

P.s. clue is something is wrong with the tank as my other tank is fine

Hi Jo

Something is wrong with my tank my other tank is perfect. For some reason the KH and PH just keep getting sucked away. The Gh is in very soft too. But my other tank has same water and is perfect conditions. I have tried potions (Know they are not the best). But got the coral and some wired large white rock that's meant to help haha.

A person suggested a few test to do so I am going to get my lab coat on and do the following see if something is sucking the levels down.

1 test a section of the wood in some tapwater

2 test with the soil

3 test the slate rock (dought anything)

4 control just tap water

I'll post by the weekend what the results are or if I give up hahah.

Thank you for you input

I know the conversion from dKH to ppm LOL

Again, for the third time, your test strips aren't accurate

None of them are.

It is scientifically impossible to have a pH crash like that if your KH is truly 4.5 unless you really mess around with things.

The test strips will show 80 ppm if your water is sitting at 20 ppm, 40 ppm, 60 ppm, etc.

Your KH and pH will BOTH drop over time if your KH starts below 4 is what I'm saying.

So, it is completely normal to see 0 KH in your tank.

Get the liquid test and you will see