Pest Snails/betta now sick with swim bladder

Our Betta fish,Nick, was doing great in his 6.5 gallon tank with filter and heater. We got him in April and he grew his fins in the next 2 months, so isn’t very old. He was happy, active, and blowing bubble nests every week. Weekly water and vacuum changes of about 25%. High quality food, including frozen blood worms or brine shrimp 1x per week. About 2 months ago I noticed a random snail in the aquarium. I let it be and the two lived peacefully for a couple of weeks. Then one morning the snail was floating at the top of the water. I thought it was dead but placed it in a bowl with water just in case. It lived and I purchased a one gallon tank for it. After this incident our Betta’s behavior changed. He started laying on his side or hanging out at the top of the tank. I also began to notice more and more tiny snails in the tank! He got to have trouble staying level, and floats up or down, has a slight bend in his back, and a little bloated at the bottom. I’m pretty sure it’s swim bladder from gorging on snails. I dosed him with kanaplex, fasted him 2 days, fed him green peas. He seemed to be getting better. Now he has been backsliding. The tank was overrun with these snails, so I purchased a new tank, and a quarantine tank and moved him out of that aquarium 2 days ago to the QT. I’ve got the new tank (6.5 gallons, filter, heater, live plants) cycling now. I fasted him for 1+ days and fed him a pea. Gave him only 2 pellets today. I’ve seen fish poop which is positive. Been changing out the water about 25% 2x per day in QT tank. I don’t know if he’s going to make it. The water in the QT tank is off, but I worry he’s not strong enough yet to be put back into the 6.5 gallon tank, and it’s only been cycling for 2 days. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!! Here Nick is below in QT next to new tank that is cycling.

 

I'd guess that snails had nothing to do with it. My reasoning is, if he was eating them in the amounts that could cause digestive problems, you wouldn't have had that many snails in the first place, as he would have eaten them as fast as they are breeding. The snail outbreak shows that, one, betta isn't eating that much of them, two, you are overfeeding, as snails tend not to overbreed if food balance is good. The overfeeding might have caused water quality deterioration, which could have harmed betta's health.
OR betta getting sick was a reason for snails overbreeding - the betta lost his apetite, yet you kept feeding it the same amount, so there was extra food for snails to grow and breed.

Am I understanding it correctly that both the new 6.5 gal tank and the quarantine tank are uncycled? If that's the case, there's no reason for you to keep the betta in quarantine tank, as it's not any better that the 6.5 gal. If you were doing fishless cycling with ammonia or food, just do a water change to reduce ammonia and let him into the tank. and of course do the daily water changes, just like in QT. He might feel better in bigger tank with plants and stuff.

 

Hi,

Sorry about your betta boy!!!

If he floats up or down, then that means that he has some control over his swim bladder. There is a swim bladder issue if he stays at the bottom and fights like heck to swim to the top for air, or if he stays at the top, sometimes even turning sideways, with no control at all.

I would introduce daphnia into his diet. It is so much better than peas. You can get live daphnia, frozen daphnia, or freeze dried daphnia. I would avoid the freeze dried if you can. Daphnia is a good protein source, and acts like a natural laxative. If you feed him daphnia a few times a week, that should take care of any bloating/constipation issues. Digestive issues can cause a slight s curve in their bodies. If he develops other symptoms, just post again, and we will see if there is some other issue going on.

I hope he gets better soon!!!!

 

I'd guess that snails had nothing to do with it. My reasoning is, if he was eating them in the amounts that could cause digestive problems, you wouldn't have had that many snails in the first place, as he would have eaten them as fast as they are breeding. The snail outbreak shows that, one, betta isn't eating that much of them, two, you are overfeeding, as snails tend not to overbreed if food balance is good. The overfeeding might have caused water quality deterioration, which could have harmed betta's health.
OR betta getting sick was a reason for snails overbreeding - the betta lost his apetite, yet you kept feeding it the same amount, so there was extra food for snails to grow and breed.

Am I understanding it correctly that both the new 6.5 gal tank and the quarantine tank are uncycled? If that's the case, there's no reason for you to keep the betta in quarantine tank, as it's not any better that the 6.5 gal. If you were doing fishless cycling with ammonia or food, just do a water change to reduce ammonia and let him into the tank. and of course do the daily water changes, just like in QT. He might feel better in bigger tank with plants and stuff.

Thank you. He gobbled down the 3-4 pellets I give him 2x per day? I may have overdone it on the weekly bloodworms. I’m going to add him to the new tank tonight. The QT tank I took water from the original aquarium, but likely hardly any of that water left due to changes. I’m going to go ahead and add him back to the aquarium tonight…he looks less bloated this morning. Thanks again.

 

The QT tank I took water from the original aquarium, but likely hardly any of that water left due to changes. I’m going to go ahead and add him back to the aquarium tonight…he looks less bloated this morning. Thanks again.

For your future knowledge, water from an old tank is not a useful source of beneficial bacteria, as the bacteria live on surfaces in an established tank, not the water itself. Therefore, beter alternatives are:
- Moving unwashed filter from an old tank (provided you're dismantling the old tank)
- Dirty filter washing water
- Gravel or other substrate from the old tank
- Plants and decorations from the old tank.
In this case, since you were trying to get rid of snails, the 2nd option would have been the best.

 

We put him back in the new aquarium after acclimating for 2 hours and he seems much better. Whew! Having lost a beta we’d had for a year to dropsy (whatever the underlying cause), I wasn’t holding much hope. But…so far it looks like we may have success here. Merry Christmas

Hi,

Sorry about your betta boy!!!

If he floats up or down, then that means that he has some control over his swim bladder. There is a swim bladder issue if he stays at the bottom and fights like heck to swim to the top for air, or if he stays at the top, sometimes even turning sideways, with no control at all.

I would introduce daphnia into his diet. It is so much better than peas. You can get live daphnia, frozen daphnia, or freeze dried daphnia. I would avoid the freeze dried if you can. Daphnia is a good protein source, and acts like a natural laxative. If you feed him daphnia a few times a week, that should take care of any bloating/constipation issues. Digestive issues can cause a slight s curve in their bodies. If he develops other symptoms, just post again, and we will see if there is some other issue going on.

I hope he gets better soon!!!!

Thanks for your reply. Right now he is better, but not 100%. Added to the new tank little by little earlier this evening. I need to find daphnia; will check fish gallery on Monday. I appreciate the advice.

 

My Betta is still sick. Worse. He'd been swimming around once put into the new aquarium and now he's lethargic again, floating at the top. He looks even more bloated, and has that swim bladder "bend" going on big time. I just did a 25% water change and put a dose of kanaplex in there. I hate feeling so helpless. I spent over $150 to get this new tank set up for him with all new plants, hideaway, etc. - and now I feel I'm going to lose him. His name is Nick. Here he is in his new tank. I've already done fasting, fed a pea 2x, gone through a round of kanaplex, put a small dose of aquarium salt in the last tank, changed his tank, changed the water. What can be done? I just looked up daphnia as I've seen that mentioned. Seems like that would make things worse? Anyone seeing this who can give me an idea of another med I should try, or their experience with daphnia is much appreciated. We love this guy and hoped to have him for years. Got him in April and he was a juvenile. Didn't have long fins yet and was colored mostly white with a couple of patches of color. He grew beautiful fins and turned a variety of robust colors over the first couple of months. I estimate he's about a year old. We got him in April. He's not pineconing yet. And I fed him a pellet this morning. He's been getting either fasted or a fraction of what I used to get him for food over the past few weeks. I feel bad for him. He's so hungry.

 

Why would daphnia make it worse? Peas aren't recommended for bettas as laxatives, because bettas are carnivorous, so it's not ideal for them. Can you take a picture from the side? From the top he doesn't look that bloated to me...
As for your investment to a new setup, well... IMO it was completely unnecessary in the first place. You already had a tank that was the same size and running, and your snail scare was a mistake. I believe that moving the betta out of the established tank could have worsened his conditions. Secondly, even if you wanted to get rid of the snails, why would you buy a second one of the same volume instead of just restarting it...? Don't blame yourself though, it takes some mistakes to learn, you'll be wiser the next time . In the future, try consulting this forum before doing something this drastic.

 

I understand that you are worried. I think that all new betta owners must go through this when their betta babies aren't doing well.

Can you post a pic of his side, a pic that shows his belly, like V1K recommended?

Things that I have found in my experience that can cause a curved spine in bettas include scoliosis (there is no treatment for this and fish can live a normal life), nitrite poisoning (aquarium salt, an air stone, and pristine water will help), some digestive issues, and fish tb (is always fatal, has a ton of other symptoms, is very slow progressing, and not extremely common).

The daphnia that I recommended was to replace feeding him green peas, but also to add to his diet to prevent bloat. It is highly recommended for bettas because of the high protein content and the laxative effect. The frozen version is the best.

Swim bladder issues are most often caused by constipation, injury, or infection. The constipation type is easy to spot as his tummy will be bloated and he will have trouble pooping. You can fast for 3 days, and he will be ok. Bettas can go for a while without eating, although it is not the best thing for them. The injury happens when the betta harms itself, maybe by trying to squeeze into a very tight spot. An infection is usually caused by stress, a weakened immune system, and/or poor water quality. And sometimes, bettas just have a genetic disposition to have these issues. It is because they are so over-bred now, that these things happen, and sometimes they happen frequently because of the genetic weaknesses. If this is the case, it may be something that you betta baby will continue to have, unfortunately.

Kanaplex, the antibiotic, should be used for bacterial infections. Over use of antibiotics, or using them when they are not needed, can cause harm to the fish as anitibiotics are hard on the kidneys. For this reason, most fish keepers will say that they do not use antibiotics unless they are pretty sure that their fish have some sort of infection, which is sometimes difficult to determine.


I recommend that you feed him, if his tummy is not bloated. He needs good food to boost his immune system.

I would continue to use aquarium salt, but be careful to not over dose with it. When doing water changes, keep track of how much water you are removing, and only add that amount of salt back, as salt is only removed by water changes.

If he is having trouble swimming, and lowering the water level will help him, then I recommend that you lower the water level. Make sure that he has places to lay at the top of the tank so that he can get air when needed.

I would continue to do small water changes every other day to keep his water pristine.

If you want to dose with kanaplex, do not give him too many courses of it. The normal dose of kanaplex has 32% kanamycin, which isn't a very large dose of antibiotic, so he's getting more inactive ingredients than medicine. Again, only for infections.

Check your water parameters often for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings. (The API freshwater master test kit is good, and lasts a long time).

There are threads on this site about how to get rid of pest snails, if you want to do a search for that. It is a common problem.

I know this is a lot, and maybe you know some of it already. I hope you find something in it that is helpful.

I do hope that he gets better!

 

Thanks for the replies. I’m going to get daphnia and feed him. I’ll get a pic of him from the side when I get back home later this evening. He’s been at the bottom of the tank most of the day.

Pictures of Nick from the side. Could not find Daphnia at Petco, will have to try Fish Gallery tomorrow if I can make it by there or else order it online. Picked up something called "probiotix" ...no idea if it will help but I'm desperate.

 

Yeah...petco for sure doesnt carry daphnia and don't think petsmart does either... frozen or freeze-dried.

 

We put him back in the new aquarium after acclimating for 2 hours and he seems much better. Whew! Having lost a beta we’d had for a year to dropsy (whatever the underlying cause), I wasn’t holding much hope. But…so far it looks like we may have success here. Merry Christmas

Thanks for your reply. Right now he is better, but not 100%. Added to the new tank little by little earlier this evening. I need to find daphnia; will check fish gallery on Monday. I appreciate the advice.

did the betta with dropsy pass away in the tank your new betta went into?

 

No. I got this one a new tank.

 

Rose of Sharon has a lot of great advice for you, and I don't want to repeat. But it really sounds like you're doing too much too fast for the fish. Please slow down, try to have patience, and focus on keeping the water quality up and providing a comfortable environment. Don't move him out of the tank anymore. I'm not convinced the antibiotics were necessary in his case, but if you started a course, make sure you finish it out. Let him stay in his home and dim the lights as much as your plants can tolerate. Add indian almond leaves for comfort, if you'd like. It won't do any miracles but it'll help him feel shaded.

Frozen daphnia is an excellent addition to any labyrinth fish's diet, and it really helps to ease bloating and constipation from overfeeding or an inappropriate diet. I feed my gouramis daphnia twice a week, and I intend to keep it in regular rotation for my betta fish when he arrives.

Remember that betta fish are carnivores and like to eat meaty foods and bugs. Higher protein content is better for them than trying peas. Chitinous creatures like Daphnia and Baby Brine Shrimp in the diet serve a similar function as peas to more herbivorous fish.

 

Hi All....well, our betta fish, Nick, is still with us. Over a month later. So, this has been ongoing for over a month and a half, and over a month now in the new tank. He's still not well. I keep expecting him to pass but then he rallies. He's still eating and isn't pine coning yet. For the most part, he was hiding in his pineapple cave, coming out to swim around the tank like a maniac, and going back in. He acts like he's scared of me, which is sad. Starting a couple of days ago, he's been floating at the top. 3 days ago I though he'd passed but he had not. He ate 2 pellets, which I take as a good sign. I had been doing water changes every other day (~25%) for a while, then moved it down to 2-3x per week. I did a gravel cleaning and water change Sunday, and this morning skimmed some of the water off the top to do about a 15% water change. I'd love for him to rally and make a comeback. I'm shocked that he's still with us. Have been feeding 1x per day or every other day if I've given brine shrimp or blood worms (frozen for both, in small quantities). It is of note that he would watch from his cave and then come out to take the food after I backed away and appeared to have gone. The past 2-3 days he's at the top a good 50% of the time...looking like he's passed on but coming to life, particularly when a pellet is dropped into the water. Then waiting for another. I had his water tested at Petco over 2 weeks ago and it was all in normal range. So....there's the update. I really do hope this little guy rallies.