Peat moss to lower PH

How do I use peat moss to lower PH. I know it goes in the filter but is it against the media or in the filter reservoir. How often does it need to be changed and how much affect will it have on my water's PH? I have a 29 gallon and the PH is 8.4+

 

Are these the "moss balls" you can buy you are talking about/ I was thinking of getting some, but not sure what the pro's and con's of them are?

 

I'm not sure at all. I've been reading some posts that say you can use peat moss to lower the PH but I have not found anything on how to use it.

 

I know one thing. the round balls of moss need turning often, otherwise they grow flat, and eventually into a rug. no idea beyond that though.

 

My Fluval 32.5 gal is most likely cycled which I did fishless with a lot of live plants. I did a water change yesterday to get rid of nitrates. Still at 40. Added a bit more ammonia to keep cycling as don't want to add fish yet.

Anyway...it is my first time just using tap water which as a PH of 8.4 or something like that. ( My 29 gallon has a combo of RO water and tap my first "real" tank cycled a few weeks ago) I experimented with Fluval's peat moss and put a lot in the filter yesterday to monitor the PH and see what would happen. Ideally would I like 7.4. Well today I tested the PH and it definitely worked. Wholly molly! I have a reading that appears to be right at 7.0.

My question is how do you even work with peat moss???? Great it lowers the PH but when you do a water change the PH will go up again and that can't be good for the fish? How long does it last in the filter/or when do you need to change it??? I am so confused especially on how you manage water changes with it. Insights????? Sorry so long.

 

My Fluval 32.5 gal is most likely cycled which I did fishless with a lot of live plants. I did a water change yesterday to get rid of nitrates. Still at 40. Added a bit more ammonia to keep cycling as don't want to add fish yet.

Anyway...it is my first time just using tap water which as a PH of 8.4 or something like that. ( My 29 gallon has a combo of RO water and tap my first "real" tank cycled a few weeks ago) I experimented with Fluval's peat moss and put a lot in the filter yesterday to monitor the PH and see what would happen. Ideally would I like 7.4. Well today I tested the PH and it definitely worked. Wholly molly! I have a reading that appears to be right at 7.0.

My question is how do you even work with peat moss???? Great it lowers the PH but when you do a water change the PH will go up again and that can't be good for the fish? How long does it last in the filter/or when do you need to change it??? I am so confused especially on how you manage water changes with it. Insights????? Sorry so long.

Hello Mich...

As long as you're not keeping and breeding rare species of fish that require a particular water chemistry, you can use water straight from the tap and just treat it with Seachem's "Safe". If you change half the water every week, you won't really need to do much else. The fish you're getting at the local fish store are likely living in the same water as what comes out your faucet at home.

Old

 

Hello Mich...

As long as you're not keeping and breeding rare species of fish that require a particular water chemistry, you can use water straight from the tap and just treat it with Seachem's "Safe". If you change half the water every week, you won't really need to do much else. The fish you're getting at the local fish store are likely living in the same water as what comes out your faucet at home.

Old

Yes, but what about live plants? Read they don't tolerate a ph of 8.4ish

 

Yes, but what about live plants? Read they don't tolerate a ph of 8.4ish

Complete and total hogwash if you ask me or Diana Walstad. My Ph is above 8. Always has been. Picture of my tank so you can see my growth.

Like salt said, unless you have some rare fish or need certain breeding conditions I'd ditch the peat moss and use the tap as is.

 

If you are set on using peatmoss, buy a 15 gal. Rubbermaid trash can & big filter mesh bag. Fill the trash can with WC replacement water. Stuff the mesh media bag with peat moss and let it soak in the trash can w/ replacement water.
Use & replace each WC.

 

There are plants that can handle that pH. Try wisteria, jungle val, anubias, bolbitis. Maybe anacharis. I have soft water, so not the person to help you out there, but my mom had (no joke) pH 9 in her 10 gallon and wisteria exploded in her tank where it dwindled in mine.

Have you ever done the bucket test? Leave a sample of tap water in a bucket sitting for 24 hours, then test it. If your water has a high oxygen content, it could raise the pH. Once off gassed, pH starts dropping. 24 hrs should give you enough of an idea. I now off gas my water each water change. PH stays more consistent that way.

If you don't mind mixing tap with RO, that's what you could do when changing water. It's a lot of testing and fiddling though.

Same with the botanicals in the filter, you would add more as you notice less of a drop in pH. I wouldn't go down further than 7.2 at the very most though, the nitrogen cycle is not performing well under 7.

 

Yes, but what about live plants? Read they don't tolerate a ph of 8.4ish

Hello again...

Aquarium plants need minerals in the water, just like fish. As long as you have sufficient lighting and maintain a steady water chemistry by removing and replacing most of the water weekly to replenish oxygen and minerals in the water, your plants and fish should grow nicely. It would be helpful if you researched the lighting requirements of the plants you want before you get them. Some aquatic plants will do fine with low to moderate light from florescent bulbs from the local hardware store and need no more nutrients than those the fish provide through their dissolving waste material.

Old

 

Thanks so much for all the intelligent and thoughtful answers so far! Things to think about here.

Complete and total hogwash if you ask me or Diana Walstad. My Ph is above 8. Always has been. Picture of my tank so you can see my growth.

Like salt said, unless you have some rare fish or need certain breeding conditions I'd ditch the peat moss and use the tap as is.

I have heard of Diana Walstad and briefly read up a few things! Your tank is gorgeous.

Hello again...

Aquarium plants need minerals in the water, just like fish. As long as you have sufficient lighting and maintain a steady water chemistry by removing and replacing most of the water weekly to replenish oxygen and minerals in the water, your plants and fish should grow nicely. It would be helpful if you researched the lighting requirements of the plants you want before you get them. Some aquatic plants will do fine with low to moderate light from florescent bulbs from the local hardware store and need more nutrients than those the fish provide through their dissolving waste material.

Old

In my 29 gallon I have good lighting. Been researching like nuts! Made the mistake though of trying this red lud...something plant while cycling it. That one fell apart.

There are plants that can handle that pH. Try wisteria, jungle val, anubias, bolbitis. Maybe anacharis. I have soft water, so not the person to help you out there, but my mom had (no joke) pH 9 in her 10 gallon and wisteria exploded in her tank where it dwindled in mine.

Have you ever done the bucket test? Leave a sample of tap water in a bucket sitting for 24 hours, then test it. If your water has a high oxygen content, it could raise the pH. Once off gassed, pH starts dropping. 24 hrs should give you enough of an idea. I now off gas my water each water change. PH stays more consistent that way.

If you don't mind mixing tap with RO, that's what you could do when changing water. It's a lot of testing and fiddling though.

Same with the botanicals in the filter, you would add more as you notice less of a drop in pH. I wouldn't go down further than 7.2 at the very most though, the nitrogen cycle is not performing well under 7.

Never heard of the bucket test. What do you mean by gassed off? Been sitting for awhile?? I am interested in what you mean by adding "gassed of water"??? Ya..been putting RO in my 29 gallon which was not a big deal. Now I have this 32.5 which I have been cycling with a high PH, 82 degrees and plants. (did that with 29 gallon too) Thanks!

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and intelligent replies! I really appreciate it. This is the Fluval 32.5 I have cycling ( or I believe is cycled now. I added "gunk, part of an another used filter sponge from my 10 gallon and a "used moss ball" to help shorten it.) Crazy that this started April 19 with a 5 gallon for a betta shopping with my sister one day. He is going in my planted 10 gallon soon when I can get the platy babies out of there and too the LFS. NO MORE babies. Why did I let the LFS even give me these three platty fish to start a cycle a 10 gallon with? I was so diligent in watching the parameters. Too much work cycling with fish. LOL I feel overall am I doing a pretty good job with researching and learning since April. Still have questions but know enough not to do some things I see people doing on the one Facebook page.

By the way...thinking of Harlequin rasboras and two gold rams in this tank eventually. Unfortunately the blue female platy and her friend Betta Betty Blue. (the only fish I named) The female betta has been with a bunch of my other fish and so far no issues at all. Some cory catfish too.

 

My question is how do you even work with peat moss???? Great it lowers the PH but when you do a water change the PH will go up again and that can't be good for the fish? How long does it last in the filter/or when do you need to change it??? I am so confused especially on how you manage water changes with it. Insights????? Sorry so long.

I love that you recognize the potential of this situation. Best solution, treat your water and prepare it separately and in advance so that it matches the tank before you add it.

Also be sure that you're not stripping the kh entirely as you don't want the ph to crash.

I'm sure its been said, I didn't read the responses but in general your higher ph will actually be ok for many types of fish. you may not have to do a thing.

Be very careful when tinkering with water parameters as there's a lot to be aware of and understand and a lot to be tested for and maintained in many circumstances. Read and research, continue asking questions and be informed before making a decision on your approach or stocking. I think you'll do great! Bravo!

 

I love that you recognize the potential of this situation. Best solution, treat your water and prepare it separately and in advance so that it matches the tank before you add it.

Also be sure that you're not stripping the kh entirely as you don't want the ph to crash.

I'm sure its been said, I didn't read the responses but in general your higher ph will actually be ok for many types of fish. 4] you may not have to do a thing.

Be very careful when tinkering with water parameters as there's a lot to be aware of and understand and a lot to be tested for and maintained in many circumstances. Read and research, continue asking questions and be informed before making a decision on your approach or stocking. I think you'll do great! Bravo!

Thank you! I just got a test kit for kh and gh. I understand how to to it, but not how to read it according to that chart. LOL I just briefly looked it over though.

 

Thank you! I just got a test kit for kh and gh. I understand how to to it, but not how to read it according to that chart. LOL I just briefly looked it over though.

Just count the drops to color change if you picked up the apI one we'll all know what you are talking about. Dont worry about converting to ppm dgh (drops) is plenty of info for us.

 

Thank you! I just got a test kit for kh and gh. I understand how to to it, but not how to read it according to that chart. LOL I just briefly looked it over though.

If I'm not mistaken the number of drops is the "degrees of" kh/gh. So if the kh test changes color after 4 drops... you have 4 degrees of kh (which is good).

Have to agree with the others that stated most tap water has minerals (particularly calcium, magnesium, and CaCO3) which can be really beneficial for plants. I have harlequin raspbora's and apistos in my planted tank above 8 ph and they all thrive. I would personally stop chasing/altering ph and let the tank balance itself on plain old tap water. RO is great for discus/rare breeds/saltwater tanks, but IMO counter intuitive and not worth the hassle for the tank you are trying to achieve.

Looks Great so far!

Thanks for the compliments and good luck!

 

Never heard of the bucket test. What do you mean by gassed off? Been sitting for awhile?? I am interested in what you mean by adding "gassed of water"??? Ya..been putting RO in my 29 gallon which was not a big deal. Now I have this 32.5 which I have been cycling with a high PH, 82 degrees and plants. (did that with 29 gallon too) Thanks!

Yeah just sitting there, it will happen. I use airstones to age my water for water changes, but just leaving it be for 24hrs is fine. Just make sure there is no residue in the testing container like soaps or salts, anything that would alter pH results.

Actually now that you have a KH/GH test, you don't really have to do the bucket test. It was just to help figure out what your hardness actually is. But if you want to do it, it doesn't hurt to understand why pH might drop in your tank and is not difficult.

The fact that IALs work to lower pH suggests that your KH is not that high (unless it was the mix of RO). Personally though, I agree, so much easier to just go with your tap water. If tap nitrates were high, it would be a different story, but pH is not a big deal. Much better to have a consistent pH than an optimal one. Messing with pH is a complicated thing and often results in fluctuations when you're not used to working with it. So consistency is the key for both plants and fish once you acclimate them.

I would look at fish that live in mid 7s or low 7s pH. I would only avoid lower pH species like ram and apisto. Not really beginner fish anyway. Fish might not breed in the tank, but they will adapt. It's hard water loving fish like African cichlids or rainbowfish that wouldn't do well in soft water because they are missing minerals that they need.

When you are ready for fish, let us know what you are looking at, maybe we could help you along. I agree, I love how much thought you've put into this.

 

My water is 8.2 pH and I struggle keeping plants other than Val, Hornwort, and swords. Your best bet would be using RO/tap to keep it consistent.

 

My water is 8.2 pH and I struggle keeping plants other than Val, Hornwort, and swords. Your best bet would be using RO/tap to keep it consistent.

Similar water (shoot I don't know where you're at in Ohio, may be the same water).
2/3 plants you mentioned are thriving in this tank and another...

 

Similar water (shoot I don't know where you're at in Ohio, may be the same water).
2/3 plants you mentioned are thriving in this tank and another...

Yes exactly my point, they do fine, especially vals. Oh and my java ferns

 

But there are plants that do well right? Like val, wisteria, hornwort and swords. I think with consistency crypts would do well. Also try crinum natans or calastrium. Maybe tiger lotus. More options with softer water, but not impossible to have a lush planted tank with lower light plants that do well in hard water.

I have soft water, but low tech tanks, and I'm perfectly happy with my java ferns, easy stems and what I call rooting plants like swords and crypts. So many factors that influence plant growth, I don't think I could identify any one that would be responsible for the failure of a certain plant to thrive. Well that's me.

 

Plants need nutrients.
Nutrients are only available to plants at certain pH's... because the nutrients are in different forms depending on pH.

Chelated or not, certain nutrients are simply not available to plants at certain pH's... (Chelates will break down at various pH's resulting in precipitate).... Or at least that's what science tells us.

It can be done it dosed correctly... Use Fe as an example...

If your pH is above 7.5 you should really be dosing either DTPA Iron or a Ferrous Gluconate product such as Flourish Iron. If you use the generic CSM+B the Iron will be virtually completely unavailable to the plants.

 

Yes exactly my point, they do fine, especially vals. Oh and my java ferns

Plants other than..... got it.
I can't read... I suck...

My bad haha

 

I’ve been struggling with Wisteria and other stem plants. I tested it by using RO/tap to get my pH lower and they did way way way better. But I just don’t have time for that. But yeah, most of the plants mentioned do fine, specifically val because they like harder water.

 

Plants need nutrients.
Nutrients are only available to plants at certain pH's... because the nutrients are in different forms depending on pH.

Chelated or not, certain nutrients are simply not available to plants at certain pH's... (Chelates will break down at various pH's resulting in precipitate).... Or at least that's what science tells us.

It can be done it dosed correctly... Use Fe as an example...

If your pH is above 7.5 you should really be dosing either DTPA Iron or a Ferrous Gluconate product such as Flourish Iron. If you use the generic CSM+B the Iron will be virtually completely unavailable to the plants.

Nicely said. It’s true. That’s why my planted tanks look like that of a childs.

 

I’ve been struggling with Wisteria and other stem plants. I tested it by using RO/tap to get my pH lower and they did way way way better. But I just don’t have time for that. But yeah, most of the plants mentioned do fine, specifically val because they like harder water.

I found your post interesting. I don't have hard water, so don't really know what it's like, so your post was helpful. All I know is that I gave my wisteria to my mom when it was dying out in my tank and I couldn't believe how well it did in hers. It grew thick and strong leaves, where in my tank the same plant was fine and fragile. I understand she could have other amounts of minerals in her hard water (pH 9), but it absorbed what it needed just fine for her.

I'm still finding plants that either do well or melt in my tanks for whatever reason. I roll with the ones that do well. As a rule, I chose 2 or 3 stems, a type of rooter plant per tank. I'm not a fan of a bunch of miss matched plants all over. And sometimes a plant that does well at one point starts melting away (especially with the addition of another that does really well). It's all about balance, and things are changing all the time.

 

Plants need nutrients.
Nutrients are only available to plants at certain pH's... because the nutrients are in different forms depending on pH.

Chelated or not, certain nutrients are simply not available to plants at certain pH's... (Chelates will break down at various pH's resulting in precipitate).... Or at least that's what science tells us.

It can be done it dosed correctly... Use Fe as an example...

If your pH is above 7.5 you should really be dosing either DTPA Iron or a Ferrous Gluconate product such as Flourish Iron. If you use the generic CSM+B the Iron will be virtually completely unavailable to the plants.

What's your opinion on changing the ph with CO2 instead of the method OP is attempting?

It's worth mentioning that I run CO2 in the tank I attached.

 

I found your post interesting. I don't have hard water, so don't really know what it's like, so your post was helpful. All I know is that I gave my wisteria to my mom when it was dying out in my tank and I couldn't believe how well it did in hers. It grew thick and strong leaves, where in my tank the same plant was fine and fragile. I understand she could have other amounts of minerals in her hard water (pH 9), but it absorbed what it needed just fine for her.

I'm still finding plants that either do well or melt in my tanks for whatever reason. I roll with the ones that do well. As a rule, I chose 2 or 3 stems, a type of rooter plant per tank. I'm not a fan of a bunch of miss matched plants all over. And sometimes a plant that does well at one point starts melting away (especially with the addition of another that does really well). It's all about balance, and things are changing all the time.

Look at what my Wisteria looked like at my old place in a different city, didn’t use any fertilizer or root tabs, and I had a fluorescent light. The pH was 7.5 ish( the one with a robust plant) . Now look at it WITH ferts, better light, and root tabs, but at 8.2 pH

 

Oh wow. Yeah my wisteria looked like the lower leaves in the 1st thumbnail. Now I'm thinking it was a lack of light influencing the poor growth, plus I was just starting with plants when I tried it. But I have heard others with hard water saying wisteria did well for them.

What I'm saying, is a lot of it is trial and error. I've probably spent hundreds on plants over the years, but now I have an idea of what I can grow with my water and light level and if a plant that did well suddenly struggles, I move it to another tank. I suspect plant compatibility and competition. For ex my floating hydrocotyle melted out in one tank that has a very healthy amount of water lettuce growing. In my 120g, it does much better with less water lettuce. Similar lighting and stocking as the 90g with thriving water lettuce.

 

Yes exactly my point, they do fine, especially vals. Oh and my java ferns

My water is 8.2 ph and my wisteria is doing wonderful and the tiger lotus is getting a new leaf every other day. The pearl weed is doing good too! Oh and the wendtiI is doing pretty good too! Lots of new leaves.

 

My water is 8.2 ph and my wisteria is doing wonderful and the tiger lotus is getting a new leaf every other day. The pearl weed is doing good too! Oh and the wendtiI is doing pretty good too! Lots of new leaves.

That's wonderful! Is the pearlweed growing as a carpet? Do you have lots of light?

 

All interesting comments. In the middle of my three 12 hour shifts at work. Going to go back and "study" all this tomorrow!

Also...I took the peet moss out after the PH went down to 7. Now today it is back up to around 8. For some dumb reason I am thinking it would just stay at 7, but evidently not. I was also thinking it would just keep lowering the PH and lowering it which I didn't want. Maybe would have gone down more yet. I am putting it back in for giggles with a little less to see what happens. Thanks for all the interesting comments on the plants and PH. Learning a lot.

 

All interesting comments. In the middle of my three 12 hour shifts at work. Going to go back and "study" all this tomorrow!

Also...I took the peet moss out after the PH went down to 7. Now today it is back up to around 8. For some dumb reason I am thinking it would just stay at 7, but evidently not. I was also thinking it would just keep lowering the PH and lowering it which I didn't want. Maybe would have gone down more yet. I am putting it back in for giggles with a little less to see what happens. Thanks for all the interesting comments on the plants and PH. Learning a lot.

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. Try using less. Not that I know what it's like lowering pH, but when I raise it with crushed coral, I only have to use a teaspoon or so per 30 gallons and replenish every 6 months or so to bump my pH up a couple points. It also keeps my pH from dropping. Also, I worked 12 hour swinging shifts for years, I know what it's like. Just work, eat at work, travel home and sleep for 3 days. The 3 day work week is all worth it imo tho!

 

That's exactly what I was going to suggest. Try using less. Not that I know what it's like lowering pH, but when I raise it with crushed coral, I only have to use a teaspoon or so per 30 gallons and replenish every 6 months or so to bump my pH up a couple points. It also keeps my pH from dropping. Also, I worked 12 hour swinging shifts for years, I know what it's like. Just work, eat at work, travel home and sleep for 3 days. The 3 day work week is all worth it imo tho!

LOL Yup love the 3 12 hours!!