Parasites from frozen bloodworms?

armadillo
  • #1
HI guys/gals

Has any of you guys' fish ever gotten a parasite infection from frozen bloodworms? That's pretty much my bettas' staple diet, and I'd feel like am downgrading their food quality by giving them freeze-dried stuff, but I"ve just heard there was a risk of passing on parasites wiht the frozen stuff.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #2
our mahachaI bettas get frozen bloodworm cubes 5 days a week, with a day of pea feedings and a day of fasting.. we've never had a problem. I wouldn't use them more than a week after thawing them though.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
That's reassuring. That's also what we give pretty much every day (aside from fasting and pea days).

Oh you thaw them in advance? I just slice a thin slice of the ice-cube (they come in the shape of ice cubes in little ice cube trays) and leave it to thaw in my fish plate.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #4
yea, it's easier just to thaw a cube and use it for a week. laziness strikes again!

That's reassuring. That's also what we give pretty much every day (aside from fasting and pea days).

Oh you thaw them in advance? I just slice a thin slice of the ice-cube (they come in the shape of ice cubes in little ice cube trays) and leave it to thaw in my fish plate.
 
sirdarksol
  • #5
It is possible. I'm sure the stuff goes through processing, but then again, so does human-grade hamburger (e coli outbreak in Sam's Club hamburgers recently), ready-to-use-salad (e colI outbreak in those earlier this year), and all sorts of other things, and stuff still gets through. Simple organisms (even lobsters) can survive freezing.
However, this is probably extremely rare. For example, with the e coli outbreak, even if you buy one of the potentially infected boxes, the chance of you actually suffering from e coli is relatively minimal (it's just not something you'd want to take chances with).
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. I plan on switching to a frozen diet for my fish, too.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
OK, altogether reassuring answers. Thanks, guys!
 
Butterfly
  • #7
I feed frozen bloodworms to my Clown Loaches, and Betta(the other fish get them also but to a lesser degree) especially and have never had a problem.
Carol
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
I thought Rose was wary about them (from the betta caresheet). Rose?
 
Butterfly
  • #9
I thought Rose was wary about them (from the betta caresheet). Rose?
I don't remember I know their bad to cause constipation and when they first started appearing they were suspected of carrying parasites but I think that's been resolved.
Tubifex (sp) worms were originally raised in sewage and did carry parasites. so even though practices have improved I don't feed them just because they make me feel uneasy.
Dave- I didn't know you could thaw them and save them(you learn new things all the time ). I only thaw what I'm going to use at that time because they do contain blood and I'm afraid they will spoil.
carol
 
COBettaCouple
  • #10
I find we have less constipation issues with frozen over freeze-dried with the very high moisture content in the frozen ones.

I'm pretty sure I read about keeping the cubes up to a week in a container here at fishlore.. if I didn't, then chalk that idea up to dumb luck. :;rab

I don't remember I know their bad to cause constipation and when they first started appearing they were suspected of carrying parasites but I think that's been resolved.
Tubifex (sp) worms were originally raised in sewage and did carry parasites. so even though practices have improved I don't feed them just because they make me feel uneasy.
Dave- I didn't know you could thaw them and save them(you learn new things all the time ). I only thaw what I'm going to use at that time because they do contain blood and I'm afraid they will spoil.
carol
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
About the tubifex, do you reckon freeze-dried are OK? I know tubifex have this reputation as really filthy stuff.

Or do you reckon that all the nasties (as well as any nutritional value...) been over-processed out of it?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #12
I think it's alright freeze-dried. I feel frozen is better, but freeze-dried still delivers nutrition to them.

About the tubifex, do you reckon freeze-dried are OK? I know tubifex have this reputation as really filthy stuff.

Or do you reckon that all the nasties (as well as any nutritional value...) been over-processed out of it?
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
But freeze-dried is safer, right, although less nutritional?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #14
well, here's my take on it -- you have a fair chance of constipation with freeze-dried worms and a very tiny chance of a bugger in frozen cubes. to me, that makes frozen safer. :;juan

But freeze-dried is safer, right, although less nutritional?
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
Ah yeah. Didn't think of the constipation!
 
COBettaCouple
  • #16
you must not get the pepto-bismol commercials there..

Ah yeah. Didn't think of the constipation!
 
TheEssigs
  • #17
Its odd, but it seems that every time I feed my fish frozen something the whole tank gets whacked out... The last time, I had a near meltdown. I am sure that these foods do have something in them occasionally... I guess just try to buy the best quality when feeding live or frozen. I bought just reg cubes from my LFS and WHAM... the cycle got messed up, the fish got sick and it took me a week to get it all back to normal. Right now, I would only trust HikarI as they state right on the package about being triple filtered and pathogen free... but to be honest... I don't feed my fish frozen any more because I am worried that something will happen. :-\
 
COBettaCouple
  • #18
HikarI is the brand we use for any frozen foods.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
Mmmm, 'fraid we don't!
you must not get the pepto-bismol commercials there..

I target feed them, so no worm ever ends up on the substrate (easy with one fish per tank), so am not too worried about my cycle.

My husband just drops them for his community tank, and I really don't like the looks of the white, fluffy rotting worms after a couple of days, actually. His cycle's always perfect, though. Go figure?

I guess the whole tank out of whack could be to do with the screwy cycle, and perhaps not parasites?

I understand you don't trust them now, with such an experience.

Its odd, but it seems that every time I feed my fish frozen something the whole tank gets whacked out... The last time, I had a near meltdown. I am sure that these foods do have something in them occasionally... I guess just try to buy the best quality when feeding live or frozen. I bought just reg cubes from my LFS and WHAM... the cycle got messed up, the fish got sick and it took me a week to get it all back to normal. Right now, I would only trust HikarI as they state right on the package about being triple filtered and pathogen free... but to be honest... I don't feed my fish frozen any more because I am worried that something will happen. :-\
 
pistorta
  • #20
I think fish would prefer the live variety, but I do not know of any distributors who supply it.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
Yeah, for sure. That's my next step. To breed my own live food. I'd not trust live food from the shop.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #22
i'd prefer the frozen cubes in a way.. I don't have the equipment to triple-sterilize, etc the larvae.
 
sirdarksol
  • #23
Yeah, for sure. That's my next step. To breed my own live food. I'd not trust live food from the shop.

An excellent choice, in my opinion.

I just began an experiment to make my own frozen food, based on what the Minnesota Zoo feeds their fish.
A leaf of spinach, ten or so peas, a couple of freeze-dried bloodworms, a 2"x2" sheet of nori, a small amount of spirulina, and gelatin to hold the stuff together. Run it through a food processor for about a minute, and then make shallow ice cubes out of them.

I'm doing this because I can't find any decent food for my mollies. Everything that the stores carry around here either has fish meal, whole fish, or shellfish as the first ingredient. There are, of course, the sinking pellets, but I just watched one of the mollies try to choke on a piece of a sinking pellet that I had dropped in for the shrimp.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this here is that I know that there is no parasite in it. If I use fish, shrimp, or krill in a future experiment, that will make things more difficult, but since, for the time being, the food is for mostly herbivores, I don't really need to worry about meat-based protein much.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
Wow. Sounds really great, Sirdarksol. What a lot of trouble you go through. As all of us here, you're obviously smitten with your fish!

I have a couple of questions/remarks, if you don't mind:
- what's the gelatin? how do I get my hands on a fish-safe form?
- norI sheets: my mollies LOVE it. I got some fish-food nory sheet, but I wonder if the one intended for human consumption isn't exactly the same thing (would be cheaper)
- what is the advantage of having it in ice cube form? Doesn't it disagregate eventually once in the water a few seconds? Or is it that it's handier because then you can make one big batch and be done with it for a few weeks?
 
Butterfly
  • #25
Does anybody else rinse their frozen food before putting it into the tank? What I do is thaw it in aquarium water, pour it through a shrimp net then rinse it in aquarium water.
Every time I just drop it in or don't rinse I get a protein foam around the edges of my tank.
Carol
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #26
Oh, so that's what's wrong with my husband's tank? He feeds his dwarf puffers frozen bloodworms by the ton, and there's always this disgusting film on the surface of the water.

I don't know how I feel about rinsing food. I really have to do it like mad on cucumbers, in case there's molluscicide on them (I have a couple of pet snails in the tanks), but then again, if you rinse this with untreated water, doesn't that just add chloramine/chlorine-full water to the food? And if that food comes into contact with the fish via their digestive system, isn't that worse then than the fish swimming in unconditionned water?

So anyway, I do it, but it really makes me wonder about
1/ whether conditionners are actually necessary and not a rip-off
2/ whether I am poisoning my fish with the tap-water-rinsed food
 
sirdarksol
  • #27
Thanks a lot.

Makes sense.

The only thing I wonder about is the gelatin. Never used the stuff. Dont' even know what it looks like. So I wonder whether I can find that easily hear in The Netherlands. I'll have to have a go, thanks for the tip.

Wow. Sounds really great, Sirdarksol. What a lot of trouble you go through. As all of us here, you're obviously smitten with your fish!

I have a couple of questions/remarks, if you don't mind:
- what's the gelatin? how do I get my hands on a fish-safe form?
- norI sheets: my mollies LOVE it. I got some fish-food nory sheet, but I wonder if the one intended for human consumption isn't exactly the same thing (would be cheaper)
- what is the advantage of having it in ice cube form? Doesn't it disagregate eventually once in the water a few seconds? Or is it that it's handier because then you can make one big batch and be done with it for a few weeks?

There's a co-op nearby that carries unflavored, unsweetened gelatin. I can also find the same stuff in the canning section of the supermarket, but it's not sold in bulk, so it's more expensive. As long as it isn't flavored and has no sugar, it should be safe (it's just processed cow hooves, anyway).

I feed my fish the norI that is sold for humans. Since that stuff contains nothing but the seaweed, I figure it can't be harmful, and since I use it for my own cooking, it makes more sense to buy one big (cheap) batch.

I freeze it in the ice cube tray because I don't want to go through this every couple of days. I've probably got three weeks' worth of food right now, and I made a really small batch. So far, the fish seem to like it.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #28
perhaps if you cleaned the veggies in a bowl of treated water?

Oh, so that's what's wrong with my husband's tank? He feeds his dwarf puffers frozen bloodworms by the ton, and there's always this disgusting film on the surface of the water.

I don't know how I feel about rinsing food. I really have to do it like mad on cucumbers, in case there's molluscicide on them (I have a couple of pet snails in the tanks), but then again, if you rinse this with untreated water, doesn't that just add chloramine/chlorine-full water to the food? And if that food comes into contact with the fish via their digestive system, isn't that worse then than the fish swimming in unconditionned water?

So anyway, I do it, but it really makes me wonder about
1/ whether conditionners are actually necessary and not a rip-off
2/ whether I am poisoning my fish with the tap-water-rinsed food
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
Yeah, doh! I should have thought of that. Or even simpler, in a little tank water in a bowl on the side.

But still, have I then been playing russian roulette do you think, are or are all slightly overcautious using conditionner as religiously as we all do?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #30
I think that although it's not the best practice, the minute amounts of heavy metals introduced were most likely taken care of by the water conditioner and you don't have to worry. any effects would have been seen by now anyway.

it's good to be vigilant with water conditioner since we're dealing with substances we can't see and really just don't know what exactly we're adding with the water. better to use : of conditioner than lose of fish.

Yeah, doh! I should have thought of that. Or even simpler, in a little tank water in a bowl on the side.

But still, have I then been playing russian roulette do you think, are or are all slightly overcautious using conditionner as religiously as we all do?
 

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