Panda Cories In Trouble

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Aqua_novice, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    Hey guys,
    My problems began with one neon tetra hiding from others. He didn't want to eat so I was starting to worry about him. I created thread here and people said that it might be ammonia problem. Because I don't have ammonia test, only strips, I went with it. It made sense because last 2 water changes I could do only every other week. Did a water change and removed as much of biological waste I could. During water change I noticed that cories were swimming to surface for air often and their dorsal fins were. They looked stressed. I thought it could just be because of ammonia. They condition didn't really improve. Did one more water change when I noticed that some of their fins were damaged. People told me that it was fin rot. Both times water was treated with seachem prime, and I put some of the prime in tank directly because it said it helps with ammonia temporarily. I woke up today and found one cori dead. I went to LFS today to get some fin rot medicine. One fish keeper told me that medicine could be harmful for shrimp. He told be that I should instead raise temp to 26 degrees celsius and make sure to have some aerated. He also told me to drop in 1 tbs of salt. Some cories look like their plates are breaking apart, and fins look really bad as well. I know that it is too late for some cories, but maybe I could save some as well. Link for images:  
    What is killing my cories?
    Thanks...
     
  2. BettaBelieveIt123New MemberMember

    Definitely they are sick, looks like bacterial infection maybe even a little fungus infection.
    What medication are you putting in the tank ? Might even be ammonia burn.
     




  3. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    I just used kitchen salt as experienced hobyist said to do that. I did buy sera baktofur but i still didn't use it because I don't know if it is safe for shrimp.
     




  4. AngryRainbowValued MemberMember

    The cories shouldn't be exposed to any salt. They, along with most other catfish, cannot survive in salt
     




  5. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    Yea I did see that after i put salt in tank. I didn't put too much, one table spoon. What do you reccomend I do?
     
  6. AngryRainbowValued MemberMember

    Do a water change to get as much salt as possible out of the water
     
  7. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    Ok, what medicine do you recommend? Should i use sera medicine and is it safe for shrimp?
     
  8. AngryRainbowValued MemberMember

    I'm not sure which medication to use, as I personally cannot identify what is wrong with them.

    I just wanted to point out that the salt will kill them, especially since pandas are more sensitive than some other cories
     
  9. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    I don't understand it too.. So I should do water change and leave it alone? I just noticed that cori that is in the worst shape has one side of his tail fin gone...
     
  10. bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    I'm looking at the neon in your imgur pic as a hint of what's going on. I'll come back to that.
    Ammonia is a fairly easy issue to deal with. Water changes and Prime (or other ammonia neutralizer). If you don't have something to measure ammonia (there are liquid and paper strip tests), it's a guessing game. But you can still take some common sense steps. Reduce feeding. Change water. Change more water. Change water again. (not all at one time, but daily). Treat entire tank volume with prime each time. This will get you to a point where even if you don't have a cycled tank, your fish will be protected from any ammonia buildup. Along those lines, I haven't seen your other thread. is the tank cycled? How long running? How long have you had the fish?
    Back to the neon. In the first pic on your imgur link, I see a noticeably sunken belly on the neon. This is an internal infection or parasite (probably). There are different kinds, and it's hard to know which one might be at fault here. Internal bacteria, internal parasites, or protistan parasites. Your best (aka easiest to get, easiest to use) med for treating these, if you can get it, will be General Cure. If you're in the US you can amazon or ebay it pretty quick. Maracyn or EM Erythromycin would also be good (ie in addition to, not instead of).
    I suspect that something about your setup is stressing the fish (stress as in putting strain on their immune systems, not necessarily acting funny). So the fin rot (probably a bacterial infection) and the internal issues are all secondary problems. You need to treat for them, if you can, but you also need to sort out the overall situation. And without a solid test kit to diagnose and address specific water quality issues, not sure if that's feasible.
     
  11. BettaBelieveIt123New MemberMember

    I'm guessing you are in Europe, I'm not sure what kinds of meds you have access too, Seeing the Sera Baktopur you have it looks all a combination off different meds treating multiple fish diseases. Can't tell if its shrimp safe, but agreed cory pandas are sensitive to salt and good thing you didnt put to much. The best treatment is good clean water. I would say go ahead and medicate with what you have, but keep in mind that cory pandas are also a little sensitive to medications. I would medicate but make sure its exact to what they recommend on the box. Either way if you do nothing, they can all die. Or maybe just good clean water with frequent water changes is all they need to recover.
     
  12. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    I do daily water changes for 3 days now. I bought tank used with filter and it was running a year before I got it. I did some changes tho. I swapped gravel for sand and I took ceramic rings outside plastic bag(previous owner left ceramic rings inside plastic, not mash, but plastic bag). This setup was running for 2 months I think before all broke lose. There is sponge prefilter on so I couldn't really kill my bacteria colony. I did put some old gravel inside stocking which was hanging in tank for a week so that I seed new sand. That neon was the reason all broke lose. He was hiding all the time and didn't want to eat. Currently he is socializing but still not eating. Could it really be that he has parasite or was he just bullied?

    I did a water change as soon as AngryRainbow suggested. One of the cories looks really bad and I think he wont make it. I just hope that I'm going to be able to save remaining four...
     
  13. bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    Yes it really could be. :p A healthy fish will pretty much never starve, or show a sunken belly like that, even if it’s the lowest ranking fish in the tank.
    If the old ceramic media was in a watertight plastic bag, it wind be well seeded (if at all) with beneficial bacteria. I’m also unclear on what to mean by a prefilter somehow protecting bacteria. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you.
     
  14. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    I will see if tetra will eat at all today. I don't have a hospital or quarantine tank tho. Can I medicate a fish in a small bowl without a filter?

    Well correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that there would be a lot of beneficial bacteria on sponge prefilter. I don't think that bag was watertight because I dropped some plant fertilizer which has brownish color and I saw that ceramic rings did get colored a little bit (not really sure, it was a while ago) so I guess some water was going in, but in a bag like it was I don't think it did a very good job at filtering...
     
  15. bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    Yes, there are lots of bb on a sponge prefilter. :) I guess I just didn't (don't) understand what you meant by the bb there being protected.
    It's certainly convenient to have the biomedia in some kind of bag, usually it's some kind of mesh.
    As for the tetra eating, and medicating... To me the tetra looks sick. You've also lost a cory, and one or more others are sick. I would be inclined to treat the entire tank, depending on what meds you have access to. Reasons to NOT treat the whole tank include something that will stain your tank, ornaments or silicon (eg malachite green), something that will kill inverts, if you have them, or something that will kill your bb colony (although there are ways around that, like reserving them to a container or such while the treatment is underway. Another consideration is whether you can add carbon to your filter after the treatment, to remove the medication.
     
  16. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    So it would be good to treat the entire tank. I lost 3 cories together and I'm sure one more won't make it. It looks like his skin is cracking and falling off. He is breathing rapidly as well. I do have shrimp and snails in tank so I'm worried about them... I bought sera baktofur but it says it isn't safe for animals that are used for human consumption.Medicine contains (100ml) :acriflavine(209,7mg), methylene blue(4.95mg), phenylglycol(0.6g) and aqua purificata ad(100ml). I have no idea if it is safe for shrimp and snails. It says that it cures mouth and fin rot as well as bacteria infection. It does say it should be used only in quarantine tanks only. One side note about cories. After they swim away, they tend to "swim" in place. Should I use this medicine and is it safe for shrimp, snails and plants?

    EDIT: I do have some active carbon available to use if I will medicate tank.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  17. bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    I am not familiar with that medicine (although I probably should start learning it, since we've recently lost most of our fish antibiotics here in Canada, and I see Sera products being pushed on Amazon.ca).
    I think it's invert safe, and I think it won't kill your filter bed, but that's just cause a quick interweb search didn't come up with dozens of hits screaming about how "this med killed my shrimps" and "this med killed my bb". You can always set up a quick treatment (hospital) tank in any old plastic container (suitably sized) with an airstone. Neons and pandas should be fine at room temp for a few days. With little to no feeding during the treatment window, you could get away with 10-20% water changes per day in such a setup, I think (even without a filter). Maybe @DoubleDutch knows more about this med.
    The skin cracking is probably mucous production. Didn't you write earlier that you added salt? That might be what's going on there. But it can also be a sign of some diseases.
    I gotta say something difficult here. Depending on what you have left in the tank, sometimes its easier to let nature take its course, lose the fish you have (or euthanize), and start over. If you have a stocked med cabinet, and tanks to spare for treatment etc, it's usually not the case. But if you don't, the cost of treatment can be WAY out of proportion to the cost of starting over.
    The "swimming in place" is a symptom I've seen with sick fish before, but don't know if it has a name. It has to do with the way they bend their bodies, kind of bending in the middle, and not really flexing the tail muscles properly. I've seen it with fish that have internal problems. Don't know enough about it.
     
  18. Aqua_noviceNew MemberMember

    I did a search on acriflavine which seems to be what this medicine is and it says: "Do not use Acriflavine with shrimp, crabs, or other crustaceans.". It also says that it kills plants so treating entire tank is not an option. My guess is that since my tank was kinda overstocked, the following happened: I couldn't do water changes every week because I messed up my knee so I had to move it to every other week. This led to waste buildup and ammonia spike. Since cories are the most sensitive fish in my tank, and since they spend all day long at the bottom, they had experienced ammonia poisoning (that's why they were getting to the surface often). I did water changes but I guess their immunity system went down and they got bacteria infection. That's why other fish aren't affected. I don't have airstone or airpup. Since there is a powerhead in my tank that has difusor, I was using it for additional aeration. A lot of mistakes were made, and I guess I can learn a lot from them... I have glass bowl which is where I'm gonna transfer one panda that is not doing well and try medication. I don't have parasite medication tho for tetra.
     
  19. bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    Not doing water changes doesn't result in ammonia toxicity, if your tank is cycled. Nitrate levels will climb, and when they get high enough (over 80ppm, or over 40 for prolonged periods) they can be harmful, especially to sensitive fish (as you say, cories are generally considered to be sensitive, and require really clean water and tight parameters).
    Keep us posted on how the treatment works out.
     
  20. DoubleDutchFishlore LegendMember

     

    Are we talking about baktopur direct.
    Download the manual here. It says it is not invert-safe
     
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