Overcrowded?

Status
Not open for further replies.

spike98

Valued Member
Messages
357
Reaction score
61
Points
63
Location
PA
Experience
Just started
Would two fish keep the cycle going? As I stated 2 fish are not mine and I have to wait for my roommates to decided what they want to do with them before I remove them.
 

jaymethy

Valued Member
Messages
175
Reaction score
58
Points
28
Experience
5 to 10 years
I haven't found a reputable source (which is a scientific paper in my opinion, but I'm sure I could), but a quick google search provides a lot of forum members stating the same thing.
Ultimately it comes down to bacteria, which has a very short generational time, needing something to feed on. Due to their short generational time, they cannot go extended periods of time without a food source, so I imagine its not more than a few days.
Now if OP wanted to give himself a little bit more time, he could continue feeding the empty tank fish food in order to introduce an ammonia source.

This is a great selection - a variation would be to add in a few otos. Though this might impact on the school sizes.
I agree, if you were to add in a few otos, I would keep both shoal sizes to 6 individuals.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

scarface

Fishlore VIP
Messages
6,824
Reaction score
7,195
Points
598
Experience
Just started
I haven't found a reputable source (which is a scientific paper in my opinion, but I'm sure I could), but a quick google search provides a lot of forum members stating the same thing.
Ultimately it comes down to bacteria, which has a very short generational time, needing something to feed on. Due to their short generational time, they cannot go extended periods of time without a food source, so I imagine its not more than a few days.
Now if OP wanted to give himself a little bit more time, he could continue feeding the empty tank fish food in order to introduce an ammonia source.
Ok, I was curious if you had something that wasn’t anecdotal. I’ve heard they go dormant without a food source. Which is fact? I don’t know. I’m just a seeker of the truth.
 

jaymethy

Valued Member
Messages
175
Reaction score
58
Points
28
Experience
5 to 10 years
Ok, I was curious if you had something that wasn’t anecdotal. I’ve heard they go dormant without a food source. Which is fact? I don’t know. I’m just a seeker of the truth.
No I don't, but now I'm curious. I have access to hundreds of zoology and fishery, etc. scientific journals. Let me give it a quick search and get back to you.
 

spike98

Valued Member
Messages
357
Reaction score
61
Points
63
Location
PA
Experience
Just started
Would a few Oto's be about 2?
 

jaymethy

Valued Member
Messages
175
Reaction score
58
Points
28
Experience
5 to 10 years
No I don't, but now I'm curious. I have access to hundreds of zoology and fishery, etc. scientific journals. Let me give it a quick search and get back to you.
@scarface

I have found one article that contradicts what I said previously. Granted that's just one article, so take it with a grain of salt.

In a nutshell, it states that upon ammonia deprivation the ability of the bacteria to oxidize ammonia decreased by 50% in 2 weeks. And that upon reintroduction of ammonia the bacteria was back to pre-starvation efficiency within 48 hours. Or that's what I gathered from reading the abstract.

Bower, C. & Turner, D. (1983). Nitrification in closed seawater culture systems: effects of nutrient deprivation. Aquaculture, 34(1-2);85-92.

However, this study was conducted in a salt water setting, and 35 years ago...
It leaves me with a lot of questions, because the results of this study contradicts the experience of many hobbyists, because the results of this study should indicate that there should be no such thing as mini-cycles...
I'll probably do more reading on this. But not for a few days because I'm moving this weekend, and that's always chaos.

Would a few Oto's be about 2?
2-3 I'd say.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

scarface

Fishlore VIP
Messages
6,824
Reaction score
7,195
Points
598
Experience
Just started
@scarface

I have found one article that contradicts what I said previously. Granted that's just one article, so take it with a grain of salt.

In a nutshell, it states that upon ammonia deprivation the ability of the bacteria to oxidize ammonia decreased by 50% in 2 weeks. And that upon reintroduction of ammonia the bacteria was back to pre-starvation efficiency within 48 hours. Or that's what I gathered from reading the abstract.

Bower, C. & Turner, D. (1983). Nitrification in closed seawater culture systems: effects of nutrient deprivation. Aquaculture, 34(1-2);85-92.

However, this study was conducted in a salt water setting, and 35 years ago...
It leaves me with a lot of questions, because the results of this study contradicts the experience of many hobbyists, because the results of this study should indicate that there should be no such thing as mini-cycles...
I'll probably do more reading on this. But not for a few days because I'm moving this weekend, and that's always chaos.
Thanks. That was quite informative, even if it was with saltwater. It indeed sounds like they could go in a partial dormant state. I heard something similar in a freshwater setting too, but can't recall from who or where.

I've always been perplexed by mini-cycles on established, long running tanks.
 

86 ssinit

Fishlore VIP
Messages
4,244
Reaction score
3,431
Points
308
Location
Long Island
Experience
More than 10 years
Op yes 2 ottos will be fine 3 better. Leaving the 2 fish will keep the cycle running. When adding new fish add slowly. A school of tetras one week something else the next and so on. The reason is to give the bb a chance to grow. If you throw a lot of fish in at once the tank will probably crash and major water changes will be needed.
 

spike98

Valued Member
Messages
357
Reaction score
61
Points
63
Location
PA
Experience
Just started
Thanks for all the help everyone. All the fish but the 2 I don't own have been handed over to a local fish store with the appropriate tanks. I'm currently talking to my roommates about the tanks actually needed for their fish as to hopefully get them to also hand over their fish.
 
Last edited:

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,062
Reaction score
9,019
Points
608
Location
Texas
Experience
2 years
You could do something like this option for a 29 gal?

8x Otos (keep your current and add more, but I'd wait to add more for a few weeks)
8x Harlequin rasbora
8x Cherry barbs
8x Cories (all one species, but almost any species will work)

For your girlfriend's 20 gal, what about keeping 8x kuhli loaches and 3-7x honey gourami (honey gourami, not dwarf gourami)?
 

alicia_lynn

Valued Member
Messages
96
Reaction score
73
Points
63
Location
Nova Scotia, Canada
Experience
1 year
I know remotely about the nitrogen cycle. I learned about it mostly when finding and reading on this site. And I've had these fish for about a month and recently been suspecting my tank of being overstocked and additional reading only added to that.

With the list of fish provided jaymethy is it possible to add maybe a few shrimp as I find them interesting.
A word of caution regarding shrimp - I added 4 cherry shrimp to my tank with some tetras. One got eaten, the rest spent all their time hiding. Eventually I moved them to my 10g tank with no other fish, and they're actually relaxed enough to come out and graze. You might be able to get away with small rasboras like Chili rasboras or Celestial Pearl Danios especially if you get larger shrimp like Amanos but I wouldn't recommend tetras and cherry shrimp. Otos are also good with shrimp
 

Redguppy67

New Member
Messages
38
Reaction score
12
Points
43
Location
Upstate New York
Experience
More than 10 years
If you want a Plecostamus, I suggest you get A Clown Pleco. They grow to only 4 inches full grown.
Try any of the Coreadore Species of Catfish, they stay small are friendly and easy to breed.
Any of the livebearing fish or smaller Chiclids might work out. Though chiclids tend to get a bit aggressive when in breeding condition.
Research on line any of the fish you are interested in keeping. Look for full grown size and temperament.
Angelfish In my opinion are usually very peaceful, they tend to get their fins niped by the other smaller fishes.
The final decision should be whatever draws your fancy.
Choose wisely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Toggle Sidebar

UV Sterilizers Worth It?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 27.5%
  • No

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • IDK - never used one before

    Votes: 33 64.7%




Top Bottom