Outcast Discus

Sorry for the loss . In my opinion that had to be something with the water. Surprising it only affected one.

Yes the beefheart is just dirty. It just doesn’t belong and mine refused it right after they ate the fdbw. Also just bought some CalI worms. Funny that you can only buy 10 grams now.

Hows the outcast doing? Funny I figured out my outcast will only eat dry worms. It won’t eat the ones I let soak. Great I’ve got one with an eating disorder. But if there dry he does fill up on them so at least it’s eating.

The first thing I thought of was the water, too, 86 ssinit, but the gravel in my tank is large and not more than an inch deep - and I make sure I get all the way down to the glass bottom to get all the debris. I also move the cave, mopanI wood, and the plants to get underneath them, and the slotted plant pots only have gravel from the tank in them to keep the plants from floating out, while allowing for water to flow through. I haven’t had to wipe down the inside of the glass, because there has been no algae - how could there be when we change between 30 & 50% of the water so often?! So, I was surprised to notice the glass looking ‘greasy’ as I was cleaning the gravel and the water level went down. I was as careful as I could be to not get a lot of stuff floating around in the water as I wiped the glass (used a *lot* of paper towels!). And yes, I am surprised, and thankful, that if it *was* something in the water that none of the others were affected. You’d think it would have been the outcast since he’s the weakest one!

I’m only going to feed the beefheart as a treat from now on, since it took less than a week for it to get the tank and filter so filthy!

The outcast seems to be fairly comfortable in his ‘private room’, and I’m not 100% sure, but I think he may have eaten some of the frozen daphnia I offered him. I like that I’ll be able to monitor him much better now, and from the way he’s done a little exploring, I don’t think I’ve stressed him too much - fingers crossed!

Yes I added the amount of prazipro I removed during my water changes back to the new water being added into the tank. So if I removed 10 gallons I added a dose of prazipro equal to 10 gallons and did that every other day for 7 days and results were visible.

Thanks for letting me know how to dose the prazipro Thedudeiam94! The instructions on the bottle, and Aquarium Solutions’ web site are not very clear, and when it says “a single treatment lasts 5-7 days”, I was concerned about overdosing if I refreshed what I had taken out with frequent WC’s (some meds lose their ‘strength’ slowly over time, and they don’t say anything about running carbon at the end of 5-7 days to remove the med).

 

Barbra I don’t think it was the tank water I think it was the incoming tap water. Something from the tap got to that fish for it to react like that.

 

Barbra I don’t think it was the tank water I think it was the incoming tap water. Something from the tap got to that fish for it to react like that.

Oh boy... I’ve got well water, which I check occasionally for nitrates and phosphates, and since getting the tropical fish I’ve tested a few times with the master kit - just to make sure everything is stable (it’s a drilled well, so no worries about a critter getting in and decaying - Yuck!). But what you say makes sense because I can’t believe there could be any pockets of anaerobic bacteria going on. Of course now I’m worried that there’s some chemical getting into the well! There have been cases not too far from me of some deep wells being contaminated by an underground gas storage tank at a gas station leaking, but that was probably 3 years ago. I know that contaminants in ground water can travel a long way from the source. Sigh....

 

Barbara, sorry to hear about the loss.

Just my two cents on beefheart (or as in my case pork heart) mixes. I did my own mix and used pork heart as I couldn't get my hand on beef heart here. I don't think it makes much of a difference, other than a lot more work getting the useful parts separated from fat and other undesirable parts in the smaller sized pork hearts. I never added any "artificial" binding components like e.g. gelatine, so basically just pork heart, white fish, prawns, peas, spirulina powder and garlic. I run it twice through the meat grinder, first on the bigger 3mm holes and then the smaller 1 mm holes I think it is. After a good stir to get the spirulina mixed in I bag it in zipper lock bags in a layer thin enough to break of what I need with my fingers.

I used it more less as the sole food when growing out the discus, feeding twice a day and I never experienced any greasing then, and also don't see a difference know when I only feed it once or twice a week. Maybe it was due to the amount of water or filtration but never noticed anything of that kind. Wonder why you experienced it differently with yours? If I remember correctly you are buying yours as a finished product? Maybe try your hand at making a small homemade batch yourself and see if the result is the same?

 

Tragedy of the unexpected kind has struck (but it has given me the courage to move the outcast)! The evening before last I was cleaning the Discus tank, and noticed that a film of pure grease was coating the glass and filter. Since it was almost time to do a media rinse I decided to do a really close inspection of the filter - and was disgusted by the amount of grease from the beef heart. I wiped out a lot, rinsed the least greasy filter pad in the tank water bucket,
put a completely new pad in the second frame, and completely brushed out the intake tube, impeller, etc. I also wiped the glass moderately, so as not to get a lot of grease in the water column. While doing that I had the python running fresh water into the tank, while my manual gravel cleaner was sucking water out into a bucket - I also kept the air stone going to oxygenate the water. Everything seemed to go well, and it took less than 10 minutes longer to do that compared to a normal gravel clean/WC - which is done with everything turned off. But a few minutes after I finished I heard a splash (there’s about 3” of air space between the top of the water and the hood), and when I turned to look I saw one of the Discus going bonkers! He was tearing around the tank hitting the sides, which seemed to stun him for a few seconds, then off he would go again. The other 3 went and hid behind the intake tube. After 4 or 5 times zipping madly around the tank the Discus started floating on it’s side, and was clearly not doing well. While I was quickly debating moving it, it died... All of this happened in less than 2 minutes, and I was *really* bummed that I had killed one of my Discus. I naturally thought it was the outcast, but then, to add to my distress I realized that it was the other Flachen, and the outcast was in it’s usual place behind the intake tube while the Turqs had decided the coast was clear, and had come to the front of the tank to see what was going on!

So, while I am mourning the loss of one of my beautiful fish, and humbled by the experience - and hoping someone here can offer an opinion on what I did to cause it - I decided this morning to move the outcast into the 20g, since it’s still not eating, and it will be much easier to tempt it with a variety of foods. I have freeze dried black worms on the way (the California grown ones since the ones from Australia you were talking about aren’t available). I sure hope I can save this one!

HI BarbaraLocke
I was laughing out loud at your description of the discus going nuts because I know how they can be crazy, then I read it died and was shocked. I have heard of this happening before but can't recall the cause. But you can imagine racing around like that would have its heart beating to fast, it might have had a heart attack in the end, or a brain aneurism. I'm sorry you lost your fish

 

It's tough when you lose a fish.
Have you contacted Han's?
Hmm...
Been reading along, some decent theories everyone.
Decided to do a search. "Discus fish swimming crazy then died"
The top result which kept showing up was, "Dashing Discus". Not sure this is what you experienced, but sounds similar and according to most is not that uncommon.

Here is a excerpt of an article:

** Disclaimer - Used for informational discussion purposes only ***

Dashing Discus (Swimming fast into the sides, or jumping out of the tank)
Now and then discus can turn into exercet missiles, dashing and darting in an erratic, skittish, jumpy manner. All water tests prove fine and there seems to be no reason why they have become so unsettled. So I am given some room in this book to look at this commonly growing problem, what might have caused it, and how to correct the problem if you are unlucky to experience it.

Hopefully it might help or confuse even more.
Learning all the Time!

 

The flachen flipping out sounds like how I have lost a few older Roseline sharks ..
I really figured heart attack as they were older and they passed so fast ..
If the others seem fine still I would chalk it up to something with the individual fish ?
I might reconsider the beef heart ?? I am old school and hard to change my mind on things but if it greases things up I am convinced on never for me , just like salt ..Never ..

Thanks coralbandit! I remember thinking while I was cleaning the grease out of the filter that if it mucked it up so badly, I wonder what it was doing to the insides of the fish - gotta remember that this kind of animal protein and fat are definitely *not* part of their natural diet in the wild! Maybe it *was* a 99 cent heart attack - or in the case of this beef heart w/shipping more like a $100 heart attack!

Barbara, sorry to hear about the loss.

Just my two cents on beefheart (or as in my case pork heart) mixes. I did my own mix and used pork heart as I couldn't get my hand on beef heart here. I don't think it makes much of a difference, other than a lot more work getting the useful parts separated from fat and other undesirable parts in the smaller sized pork hearts. I never added any "artificial" binding components like e.g. gelatine, so basically just pork heart, white fish, prawns, peas, spirulina powder and garlic. I run it twice through the meat grinder, first on the bigger 3mm holes and then the smaller 1 mm holes I think it is. After a good stir to get the spirulina mixed in I bag it in zipper lock bags in a layer thin enough to break of what I need with my fingers.

I used it more less as the sole food when growing out the discus, feeding twice a day and I never experienced any greasing then, and also don't see a difference know when I only feed it once or twice a week. Maybe it was due to the amount of water or filtration but never noticed anything of that kind. Wonder why you experienced it differently with yours? If I remember correctly you are buying yours as a finished product? Maybe try your hand at making a small homemade batch yourself and see if the result is the same?

That sounds like a great recipe fa4960 - thanks for sharing! I was feeding probably what amounted to a little more than an average cube (like in the packs of frozen fish foods) a day, broken up into 2 meals, and two meals of the Hans Discus flakes. I would substitute frozen brine shrimp or daphnia every few days for one of their meals, as I was trying to introduce them to new foods - and find out what they liked. My tank is a 50 gallon corner hex, with an Aqueon 750 hob, and an air stone , so it has 400gallons/hr filtration - which should be plenty for that size tank. I was careful to not feed them more beef heart than they would eat in 4 or 5 minutes, and was actually worried that the outcast wasn’t getting any. Yes, when I vacuumed the gravel I would see some ‘strings’ of it that everyone had missed, but not a lot (that would tell me that I was overfeeding). The only time I saw any sticking to the intake tube was when I first started feeding it to them, and they didn’t seem interested. That only lasted a few days, and then they started devouring it, and were disappointed when they got something else. I clean the tank at least every other day, and most of the time it’s every day. It’s true that I was only checking the filter every 7 - 10 days, but had only had to rinse the media once since I got these fish on July 2nd - until now.

HI BarbaraLocke
I was laughing out loud at your description of the discus going nuts because I know how they can be crazy, then I read it died and was shocked. I have heard of this happening before but can't recall the cause. But you can imagine racing around like that would have its heart beating to fast, it might have had a heart attack in the end, or a brain aneurism. I'm sorry you lost your fish

Thank you SabrinaBrook! I also have a couple Silver Dollars, which are notoriously skittish fish, but these guys had never shown that kind of behavior. They’re kept in a quiet room, and I wasn’t really near the tank making any sudden moves that could have startled him. In fact the fastest I have ever seen them move is when I come into the room, and they race to the front of the tank thinking they might get fed! I’ve got to read @jmaldo’s article next to see if it could explain what happened. Sure hope it isn’t something in my well water! I cleaned my 40 gallon this morning (which has 2 large SD’s, a 5” SAE, and a Moonlight Gourami that’s almost 5” - so it gets cleaned every other day, too) and they are all fine. Whew!

 

BarbaraLocke
The beefheart is ok but you need another food to feed on the other day like freeze dried black worms or another discus specific food, there is also recipes you can look up here or online that you can make at home for them, if you have time.
What I like to keep in mind is, although its nice for us to try and replicate the wild, unless the fish are wild caught, the ones we keep in our tanks are not wild and have been bred in captivity in very different conditions. Discus don't eat beef in the wild, they don't have medications in the wild, no human interaction, the water in a river is not the same as in a tank and there would be other factors that differ too. So as much as we like to say, they would do this or that in the wild, we have to remember they are in fact not in the wild and never have been.
I can understand your struggles with new discus, ive had them in the past and also have some now, but I don't like to mention them on this site because they are from the local pet store and people here judge you harshly for supporting breeders of not perfect quality discus.

 

It's tough when you lose a fish.
Have you contacted Han's?
Hmm...
Been reading along, some decent theories everyone.
Decided to do a search. "Discus fish swimming crazy then died"
The top result which kept showing up was, "Dashing Discus". Not sure this is what you experienced, but sounds similar and according to most is not that uncommon.

Here is a excerpt of an article

** Disclaimer - Used for informational discussion purposes only ***

Dashing Discus (Swimming fast into the sides, or jumping out of the tank)
Now and then discus can turn into exercet missiles, dashing and darting in an erratic, skittish, jumpy manner. All water tests prove fine and there seems to be no reason why they have become so unsettled. So I am given some room in this book to look at this commonly growing problem, what might have caused it, and how to correct the problem if you are unlucky to experience it.

Hopefully it might help or confuse even more.
Learning all the Time!

Thanks so much jmaldo, for taking the time to look into my problem, and finding this great article!! I didn’t have an AhHa! Moment when reading about ‘dashing Discus’, although I’ve been concerned about the water quality after wiping the filter out, and giving the least greasy filter pad a ‘rigorous’s rinse, and throwing the worst one away and putting in a brand new one. So far the parameters are all 0, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I’ve crashed the cycle - so I’ll be checking every day for a while. It was interesting that he is a big fan of adding salt. I have a box of aquarium salt in my medicine kit, but haven’t even opened it, as I thought I might only attempt a salt bath if a guppy needed it (that had been about the only thing you could do for ick when I was a child helping my father with his fish - and it worked!). I’m more like coralbandit, with the only exception being guppies - but desperate situations call for desperate measures, so you never know. The GOOD NEWS is that while cleaning the outcasts tank a little while ago I found some poop!! Let’s have a party! If he pooped, he ate!!!

BarbaraLocke
The beefheart is ok but you need another food to feed on the other day like freeze dried black worms or another discus specific food, there is also recipes you can look up here or online that you can make at home for them, if you have time.
What I like to keep in mind is, although its nice for us to try and replicate the wild, unless the fish are wild caught, the ones we keep in our tanks are not wild and have been bred in captivity in very different conditions. Discus don't eat beef in the wild, they don't have medications in the wild, no human interaction, the water in a river is not the same as in a tank and there would be other factors that differ too. So as much as we like to say, they would do this or that in the wild, we have to remember they are in fact not in the wild and never have been.
I can understand your struggles with new discus, ive had them in the past and also have some now, but I don't like to mention them on this site because they are from the local pet store and people here judge you harshly for supporting breeders of not perfect quality discus.

Oh, SabrinaBrook, don’t feel that anyone in this group would look down on you for buying Discus from your LFS!! There are others here, who are ‘veteran’ Discus keepers, who buy from mom and pop stores as well as the big chain pet stores! I struggled with whether to buy my first Discus from a reputable source online, or one of my local Petco’s that has Discus in stock. My only real concern was to get healthy fish, as I’m on a tight budget and these fish are expensive! I still look at the Discus when I go to that Petco, and they get some real beauties in!

Now to the thing about wild Discus - what I meant was that because *all* Discus, both wild and domestic bred, are physiologically the same (i.e. their digestive tracts and organs), they may be able to survive on whatever foods are offered, but they weren’t ‘designed’ to eat warm blooded animals as their best diet. This is not to say that if a rodent drowns and begins to decompose, that carnivorous fish of all types won’t eat the mammal. But, they certainly haven’t evolved through domestic breeding to thrive on a beefheart diet. The same is true of horses, who have been kept and bred domestically for hundreds of years. We feed our domesticated horses grain, but this is not a food available to wild or feral horses, and there has been arguments and research for years regarding the *need* to feed horses grain. Horses, and most creatures are opportunistic, in that they can stray outside of their typical diet when necessity or the opportunity arrises. We are seeing a huge increase in horses developing Cushings disease and Insulin Resistance because of our belief that horses need grain. It was discovered hundreds of years ago that horses had more energy when fed grain - which translated into you could get more work out of them, and it was a lot easier to carry a few lbs of grain with you than it was to carry enough hay to keep a horse going all day. Plus, the horse could eat the grain out of a leather bag hung from the bridle during a quick break from plowing the field or pulling the wagon, or other type of conveyance. Horses didn’t live as long as they do now, because of many reasons, so it was’t until the mid-20th century when horses became pets rather than machines used for transportation that problems related to feeds became an issue. Sorry, for the long-winded explanation - I’m sure you get my point!

Please accept my welcome to the Discus Army!!

 

Hey it’s a gang!! Not an army . SabrinaBrook there's no bad Discus fish. 6 of mine are from my lfs. So let’s see some pics.

Babara I’ve seen the dashing discus thing. It’s the main reason people add dither fish. Discus are skittish. But with the dither fish (usually a schooling fish) the skittishness subsides. They get used to the continuous movement and stop dashing across the tank when something moves.
Also bigger tanks help. They usually only dash a few feet. So in a 5-6’ long tank it’s over before they hit a wall. The smaller the tank the more likely they hit some thing. This could have happened to yours as it dashed it hit something got scared and dashed again till it hurt itself. Just strange it happened during a water change.
As to the beef heart I’m with you. It doesn’t belong. Nothing any fish would learn to digest. It’s used to beef up young discus and a lot of breeders have moved away from it. I would try different things. Flake foods when there grown. I have most of mine eating flakes with black worm in them,pellets and crumbles of different types.

 

The back 6 minus the yellow one in the middle of the first 3 are all from my local fish store .

 

I can understand your struggles with new discus, ive had them in the past and also have some now, but I don't like to mention them on this site because they are from the local pet store and people here judge you harshly for supporting breeders of not perfect quality discus.

Seen in the light of the discus I have now grown out, I for one should not have supported a local breeder. I would have liked ending up with higher quality discus in my tank, and this is despite the fact that I have no intention to breed them. I just really like to watch 7" perfect coloured discus lazily swimming around. However by no means does this mean that I can't appreciate other members decisions on where they get their discus from and how the look. I think for all of us our main goal should be to try treat our discus the best possible way, no matter what size and colouration / quality they have when we acquire them.

We have a good non-judgemental discus gang going here and really try to help each other with our various experiences, so SabrinaBrook please join in, also with pictures when you feel ready for it

 

Hey it’s a gang!! Not an army . SabrinaBrook there's no bad Discus fish. 6 of mine are from my lfs. So let’s see some pics.

Babara I’ve seen the dashing discus thing. It’s the main reason people add dither fish. Discus are skittish. But with the dither fish (usually a schooling fish) the skittishness subsides. They get used to the continuous movement and stop dashing across the tank when something moves.
Also bigger tanks help. They usually only dash a few feet. So in a 5-6’ long tank it’s over before they hit a wall. The smaller the tank the more likely they hit some thing. This could have happened to yours as it dashed it hit something got scared and dashed again till it hurt itself. Just strange it happened during a water change.
As to the beef heart I’m with you. It doesn’t belong. Nothing any fish would learn to digest. It’s used to beef up young discus and a lot of breeders have moved away from it. I would try different things. Flake foods when there grown. I have most of mine eating flakes with black worm in them,pellets and crumbles of different types.

You’re right, 86 ssinit - we’re a Gang, not an army! of the good sort, of course!

My freeze dried black worms should arrive today or tomorrow, and I’m excited to tell everyone that a blood worm literally floated into the outcast’s mouth this morning, and he ate it! I was hoping that would get him to go after more, but not yet. I have found him pecking at one of the pieces of mopanI wood in the tank, and believe/hope it’s because some daphnia may have stuck to the wood.

That’s very interesting about the dither fish! And it’s a very good point about the size of the tank being key when a Discus gets badly startled, as my tank is high (24”), but not very wide (with a 90 degree V to fit into a corner of the room, and a hex shape in front - early version of a ‘bow front’, I guess) so he didn’t have to dart very far before hitting the glass. It was actually maybe 5 minutes *after* I had finished the cleaning and WC, as I had turned the filter and heater back on, wound up the python tubing, disconnected it from the sink in the kitchen, and was hanging it up about 10’ from the tank when he went ballistic.

Interestingly, since that night, and then moving the outcast into his own tank the next morning, the 2 Turqs have ‘colored up’ noticeably! One has no stress bars at all, and a lovely turquoise blue with light brown patterning! I’ll post pix later when the lighting in the room changes so there isn’t a lot of glare on the tank.

 

HI BarbaraLocke fa4960 86 ssinit
Thank you for your kind words, I have 5 discus but this morning 1 of them is looking bad, I can't see anything wrong with it though and it was fine yesterday. There is 1 Turq, 2 Blue diamond and I think the 2 orange ones might be some sort of throw back Pigeon Bloods.
BarbaraLocke your explanation on the horses was good, makes perfect sense
I guess what I was getting at with the wild discus was that we have to treat our captive discus different due to their environment being so different to the wild. But as you said, their insides and instincts are still the same.
fa4960 That is right, I believe its not where, when or how people got their fish, its how they look after them that counts
86 ssinit Love your tank and fish, they look so happy. Can I ask did the peppered ones come like that or have they coloured up like that since you have had them? You are probably aware, but with your black back ground on the tank, discus will pepper up due to dark environments.
Here is a few pics of mine, little cuties

Snapchat-2024868583

• Decoy
• Aug 2, 2019

Snapchat-145231301

• Decoy
• Aug 2, 2019

Snapchat-1863858228

• Decoy
• Aug 2, 2019

 

You’ve got them in different tanks . Great looking fish!! Yes you can get good looking discus from local fish shops.

My dirty pigeon bloods started out a pale orange but got all that peppering while in the 45. One seems to be growing out of it but the other still has a lot. Also some of the Hans fish have some peppering.

 

86 ssinit
Thank you, same tank, 80% of the tank is sand and 20% pebbles.. I need to buy a scrubber today, there is a slight film building up on the glass, I just did a 30% water change now and everyone is happy except 1 of the discus, he is not moving around, I don't want to put him in the hospital tank just yet as I sometimes feel that makes them worse, so I will monitor him today.
I thought they might grow out of the peppering as times goes by, at the moment I don't have a back drop on my tank, you can see the cords but I'm not fussed at this stage.
Anyway I don't want to take over this thread of Barbaras lol so I will stop here, thanks guys

 

86 ssinit
Thank you, same tank, 80% of the tank is sand and 20% pebbles.. I need to buy a scrubber today, there is a slight film building up on the glass, I just did a 30% water change now and everyone is happy except 1 of the discus, he is not moving around, I don't want to put him in the hospital tank just yet as I sometimes feel that makes them worse, so I will monitor him today.
I thought they might grow out of the peppering as times goes by, at the moment I don't have a back drop on my tank, you can see the cords but I'm not fussed at this stage.
Anyway I don't want to take over this thread of Barbaras lol so I will stop here, thanks guys

Oh, Sabrina, you aren’t taking over my thread!! This is the way threads, evolve! And it sounds like one of yours is beginning to act like my outcast Noooo!!!! Your fish are all beautiful, as is the one 86 ssinit posted of his! Which one of yours is beginning to act strange?

My outcast has been more active today, and when I saw him pecking at one of the pieces of mopanI wood in his tank, I got a cube of Daphnia, took the wood out of the tank, and smeared the Daphnia all over it so that it would stick. Hers still been pecking away at it, so hopefully he’s getting some nourishment. My b,ackworms arrived this afternoon, so I put some in his tank, but I didn’t see him eat any. Some stuck to the mopanI wood as they were floating around, so maybe he’ll get some while he pecking. I sure hope so, because they’re supposed to be 60% protein - and he could sure use some right now!

And here are the pix I promised to post of my turqs today. They wouldn’t hold still - all the specks in the water are the flakes I had given them a minute before, and they were still chasing the little pieces

 

SabrinaBrook
Your Discus are "Looking Good". Welcome to the "Gang" the more members the better. We all can and do learn from each others trials and tribulations. Every tank and its inhabitants are as different as "fingerprints". Especially with these beauties. Another keeper with a planted tank. I'm jealous. I have had "Good" success with planted tanks, But decided to go bare except for some potted plants. That will change come the fall. Glad you decided to jump in.

 

BarbaraLocke
Thank you, its one of the PB's, its really struggling and I'm pretty worried about it now. It was just sitting up the top of the water against the glass but upright. I did move it to the hospital tank but as I suspected it got worse and was floating around on its side for 20 minutes! So I panicked and placed it back in the main tank, its upright again and leaning on the glass. I suspect its going to die and I can't see anything on the outside of it to suggest why. Maybe its stress, maybe its because my water parameters are playing up due to a bag of Nitra-Zorb I had in my filter that stalled my cycle that has now been removed causing my tank to test positive for nitrite. What ever the case I don't think its going to survive much longer. The others seem fine.
Your Turqs look like mine, very pretty and tank looks so clean and nice
jmaldo
Hi, thank you for the greeting
Yes I agree, we learn from others for sure. I love planted tanks, the vibrant greens are so pretty and look so nice.

 

BarbaraLocke
Thank you, its one of the PB's, its really struggling and I'm pretty worried about it now. It was just sitting up the top of the water against the glass but upright. I did move it to the hospital tank but as I suspected it got worse and was floating around on its side for 20 minutes! So I panicked and placed it back in the main tank, its upright again and leaning on the glass. I suspect its going to die and I can't see anything on the outside of it to suggest why. Maybe its stress, maybe its because my water parameters are playing up due to a bag of Nitra-Zorb I had in my filter that stalled my cycle that has now been removed causing my tank to test positive for nitrite. What ever the case I don't think its going to survive much longer. The others seem fine.
Your Turqs look like mine, very pretty and tank looks so clean and nice
jmaldo
Hi, thank you for the greeting
Yes I agree, we learn from others for sure. I love planted tanks, the vibrant greens are so pretty and look so nice.

Hmm....I sure know that feeling of panic, and indecision when we’re faced with a crisis we don’t know the cause of! I’m surprised that your PB seemed to be worse in the hospital tank, then was able to remain upright in the tank it came from with the elevated nitrite! I’m assuming that your hospital tank’s parameters are all good - so was the water temp at least the same as the tank it was used to? Because our Discus need a higher temp than typical for tropical fish, we either have to have a designated hospital tank just for them, or have enough time to raise the temp in our hospital tank before moving the sick Discus into it.

Since your guy seems to be on it’s last legs, and the hospital tank, even if not cycled, would have no ammonia or nitrites, I’d opt for keeping him in that tank, where you can try raising the temp even higher than in the tank with other Discus. At this point raising the temp fairly quickly isn’t going to make things any worse than they are. I’m basing this on the advice I got from Hans when he shipped my Discus to me. He keeps his tanks at 86F, so I had told him I had my tank at 84F to receive the fish when they arrived, because even with heat packs, the temp in the shipping bags would probably drop during shipping. Hans said that sure, the temp would change a bit during shipping, but he wanted me to have the temp in my tank at 86F to receive the Discus. And, hey, I had paid a lot of money for these fish, so I was going to do it *his* way

Keep us updated on your guy!

 

Yes I’m with Barbara. Put it in the hospital tank. Put a piece of driftwood or a plant in there with it and raise the temp and leave the light off.
Now the nitrite in the main tank is a problem. Nitrazorb removes nitrate. Why were you using it. How high were the nitrates? Do at least a 50% water change on the tank and recheck the nitrite. I believe nitrite is the deadliest part of the cycle and would remove ASAP. How high is the ammonia? Sorry about all the questions. Just wondering how you get high nitrite.

 

BarbaraLocke 86 ssinit
Firstly he has died
The hospital tank had 4 small fish keeping it cycled, bare bottom, 1 fake plant(fake so it does not hold disease and can be washed clean after each illness) and exactly the same temp as the main tank at 28c = 82.4F. My plan with a sick fish was to remove the small fish if I needed the hospital tank. With the temp, when I have previously had discus I had kept them in 30c = 86F water and had a lot of problems with aggression and sickness, so this time I'm keeping them at 28c which is not out of their temp range.
With the Nitra-Zorb, I was reading it at the pet shop and thought it would be a good idea as it said reduces new fish loss and removes toxins, I thought it couldn't hurt to try it. While it was in the filter I had a small amount of ammonia 0.25 showing so I was doing water changes every 2nd day, it was showing no nitrite 0 and no nitrate 0. I started to become suspect of the bag of nitra zorb, so I removed it wondering if it had stalled my cycle because I wasn't getting a nitrate reading. The day after I removed it I had nitrite at 0.25 in the water straight away, so it had been removing the nitrite and nitrate from my water as it suggests on the pack but to the point I had no nitrate, which I need of course. So that being said my tank is now going through another cycle, I did a 30% water change yesterday and I'm about to do a bigger one right now to try and bring the water back into check.

 

Sorry you lost your disc ..

 

coralbandit
thank you, it might have been the water quality at this stage, a few of the others are hiding up at the spray bar at the moment
I scrubbed the tank walls, vacuumed the sand and did a 50% water change a couple of hours ago, just tested the water(possibly too soon as the water hasn't had time to settle) because I was anxious to know the readings, PH 7.2 Ammonia 0.50 Nitrite 0.25 Nitrate 5.0, I now have nitrate!! I expect the ammonia and nitrite to lower over the next 12 hours with another 50% water change tomorrow depending on the test results in the morning.

 

BarbaraLocke 86 ssinit
Firstly he has died
The hospital tank had 4 small fish keeping it cycled, bare bottom, 1 fake plant(fake so it does not hold disease and can be washed clean after each illness) and exactly the same temp as the main tank at 28c = 82.4F. My plan with a sick fish was to remove the small fish if I needed the hospital tank. With the temp, when I have previously had discus I had kept them in 30c = 86F water and had a lot of problems with aggression and sickness, so this time I'm keeping them at 28c which is not out of their temp range.
With the Nitra-Zorb, I was reading it at the pet shop and thought it would be a good idea as it said reduces new fish loss and removes toxins, I thought it couldn't hurt to try it. While it was in the filter I had a small amount of ammonia 0.25 showing so I was doing water changes every 2nd day, it was showing no nitrite 0 and no nitrate 0. I started to become suspect of the bag of nitra zorb, so I removed it wondering if it had stalled my cycle because I wasn't getting a nitrate reading. The day after I removed it I had nitrite at 0.25 in the water straight away, so it had been removing the nitrite and nitrate from my water as it suggests on the pack but to the point I had no nitrate, which I need of course. So that being said my tank is now going through another cycle, I did a 30% water change yesterday and I'm about to do a bigger one right now to try and bring the water back into check.

Oh gosh, SabrinaBrook, I am so sorry! This has not been a good week for either one of us, has it? It sounds like whatever got him came on fast, and there was probably nothing you could have done anyway. I was (and still am) really worried that I would crash the cycle in my Discus tank when I had all the grease build-up to clean out last Monday. Luckily I had 2 media pads in my filter, and one wasn’t too greasy - unfortunately it was the new pad I had put in along with the seasoned pad I used to kick start the cycle when I set the tank up - so there hasn’t been a very long time for the BB to take up residence. So far all the parameters are good, even with removing the plants to get the grease off them! I’m going to credit the mopanI wood.

If you have another tank that is cycled, and you can steal a piece of the media to put in your discus tank filter (if there’s room) - or even rub the filter material you’re now using in your Discus tank filter down in the bottom of the filter housing in a cycled tank (where all the gunk is), that should ‘seed’ it with some beneficial bacteria. Keep us posted!

 

Oh, "No" SabrinaBrook
Alright now, that is enough. That makes 3 losses for the "Discus" gang in the past 2 weeks.

 

I was going to start a new thread titled ‘I broke all the rules - but I don’t care!’ - but this does pertain to my outcast in many ways, so here’s what I did yesterday I had a two-day coupon for $10 off a $30 purchase at Petco (and I had $5 in reward points), so I decided to go stock up on a few things. As long as I kept it at $30ish it would be like a 50% off sale! So....I get to the fish section, and naturally I stop to look at the Discus tank, and see a sign on it that says ‘Under Observation’ ?! While I’m checking out the fish to see what could be wrong, one of the employees in that department, who I have gotten to know, comes up to say hI - so I ask her what’s going on with that tank. 3 of the Discus are huddled together in one corner at the top of the tank, and don’t look very good, another is over behind an outlet hose looking even worse, and a couple are motionless in the middle of the tank, amongst the plants. One of those happens to be one of the little ‘blue’ ones I would have bought a month ago if I had decided to get my Discus from Petco....... He was the smallest one back then, and he hadn’t grown any, and now was almost completely black due to stress bars - but he was breathing normally, and came over to the front of the tank when I was pointing him out to the young lady I was talking with. About this time the other young lady that I’ve gotten friendly with (and I think is the supervisor of the fish department) came over and the two were telling me that they believed that some catfish that had been in the tank had been sucking the slime coat off the Discus - and that’s why they were in ‘quarantine’. Well, one thing led to another, and because they know me, I’m sure, I bought the little blue Discus ☺️ I know, I know, I know!! They agreed it *must* be the blue cobalt, which was $10 cheaper than the blue diamond (that they couldn’t find), and they said that he would still have their 30 day guarantee! Now, I had to decide whether to get another tank, and all the complications that would have with finding a spot for it, as well as the expense of the filter, heater, hood, etc., or putting it in with my outcast - who had made only minuscule progress. I decided to put ‘Arlo’ (a combination of the two employees names - Arias and Olivia ) in with the outcast. Again, *I know* - and I’ll never do it again, I promise!

So I get Arlo home, and get him acclimated to my water and temp, close the curtains in the room to keep the light low, and sit down to watch. The outcast perked right up, and wobbled over to investigate, and Arlo swam circles around him, then they both retreated to the corner behind a piece of mopanI wood and some silk plants. I checked on them throughout the rest of the afternoon, and not much went on. When it came time to feed I decided that I would stick with the frozen Daphnia that the outcast had shown a tiny bit of interest in, and also because that’s one of the foods commonly given to very young fish when weaning off fry food. Nothing dramatic, but both swam around a little, and the outcast started pecking at the mopanI wood at the other end of the tank, which I smear the Daphnia on so that it doesn’t all just swirl around in the tank. I took that as a good sign - for him! Arlo didn’t eat anything that I could see, but I knew he was still very stressed. Went to bed later figuring that no matter what happened with these two Discus, I was OK with my decisions.

This morning I was amazed to see the outcast over pecking on his piece of wood, and Arlo right there with him! AND THEN! When I ran and got a cube of Daphnia and a cube of brine shrimp, rubbed it on the pice of wood, and put it back in the tank......BOTH fish started eating with enthusiasm!!! Woo Hoo!!! The outcast now seems to have the will to live, and Arlo has perked right up!! I’ve got some Stress Guard coming tomorrow, to help Arlo’s slime coat, and I’m debating whether to run some carbon through the filter to remove the prazipro in a couple days (when it’s been the recommended 7 day treatment), and do a round of General Cure, or something else. Hoping you guys will give me some advice on that - and not yell too much...

 

I would just change water to pull meds and observe ..
When any fish is skittish and off food I like to offer another fish either in tank or the view of tank for the slow fish to watch when they eat ..
The spirit of competition and companionship along with clean water and food is really IMO best medicine .
I keep my fish in different tanks so I don't really ever take QT to seriously ? New fish make me nervous ...
I don't treat prophylactically for anything but worms or internal issues [the prazI or metro ].
Never used general cure so can't say , but its ingredients are prazI and metro ? I just have both in their own packaging ..
I have not treated my discus from Hans with one thing yet ,have probably been the most slack with water changes then all the gang and have had only the one loss that was totally unexpected ..My guys seem to be all well with the checkerboards still being picked on ,but eating like they should so no biggy to me .They have not colored up at all so far ?
I am trying to just treat these fish like I treat all my fish ..They are not getting anything besides more food since they are bigger then any of my other fish .

 

Lol Babara I was going to suggest getting one of the ones you first saw . Glad you did it. I used stress coat the last time I kept discus. But only for new discus still in the bag. I’ve never added it to a tank. I would watch them before you add it. The slime coat will grow back. Clean water is what it needs. The fact that there eating is great.

I don’t medicate. Years ago I tried it and never had success. In main tanks it was allways a disaster. So sick fish are qt. Raise the temp and and some salt. I did buy the PP and have a 30 gallon set up if I see something wrong. But my tank as I’ve stated is the worst set up. Yes it looks good but in reality I’ve put to much in there. The mts came with the gravel and the cycle when I started. Plants I added and the dither fish. Cory’s and at the wrong temp forktail rainbowfish also a lone harlequin rasboras a bn pleco and an sae (2 more in waiting). Now I’ve just discovered some shrimp I was throwing in have lived. So lots of different things in there that meds could kill and start a chain reaction. So if I’m going to try that PP it will be in the 30.

Sabrina I’m sorry about your discus. Unforunatly this happens a lot with these fish. Hard to figure out what or why or how. In the last month the gang has lost some and for no apparent reasons. This is why these fish are considered hard fish to keep. .

 

I would just change water to pull meds and observe ..
When any fish is skittish and off food I like to offer another fish either in tank or the view of tank for the slow fish to watch when they eat ..
The spirit of competition and companionship along with clean water and food is really IMO best medicine .
I keep my fish in different tanks so I don't really ever take QT to seriously ? New fish make me nervous ...
I don't treat prophylactically for anything but worms or internal issues [the prazI or metro ].
Never used general cure so can't say , but its ingredients are prazI and metro ? I just have both in their own packaging ..
I have not treated my discus from Hans with one thing yet ,have probably been the most slack with water changes then all the gang and have had only the one loss that was totally unexpected ..My guys seem to be all well with the checkerboards still being picked on ,but eating like they should so no biggy to me .They have not colored up at all so far ?
I am trying to just treat these fish like I treat all my fish ..They are not getting anything besides more food since they are bigger then any of my other fish .

Thanks so much @ coral bandit for your advice! That’s what I was thinking when I decided to put the little Discus in with the outcast - at least they would be company for each other, and yes, General Cure is metro and prazI - which is what I was thinking of trying with the outcast, and would probably be a good thing to treat the new Discus with in case his slime coat had been damaged, and something nasty had gotten into him. I see your point with not getting carried away with meds, and the best thing being good water and good food for both of them!

Lol Babara I was going to suggest getting one of the ones you first saw . Glad you did it. I used stress coat the last time I kept discus. But only for new discus still in the bag. I’ve never added it to a tank. I would watch them before you add it. The slime coat will grow back. Clean water is what it needs. The fact that there eating is great.

I don’t medicate. Years ago I tried it and never had success. In main tanks it was allways a disaster. So sick fish are qt. Raise the temp and and some salt. I did buy the PP and have a 30 gallon set up if I see something wrong. But my tank as I’ve stated is the worst set up. Yes it looks good but in reality I’ve put to much in there. The mts came with the gravel and the cycle when I started. Plants I added and the dither fish. Cory’s and at the wrong temp forktail rainbowfish also a lone harlequin rasboras a bn pleco and an sae (2 more in waiting). Now I’ve just discovered some shrimp I was throwing in have lived. So lots of different things in there that meds could kill and start a chain reaction. So if I’m going to try that PP it will be in the 30.

Sabrina I’m sorry about your discus. Unforunatly this happens a lot with these fish. Hard to figure out what or why or how. In the last month the gang has lost some and for no apparent reasons. This is why these fish are considered hard fish to keep. .

And thank you, too, 86 ssinit, for your good advice - which makes it two votes for keeping it simple! It crossed my mind last night that I should get some PP now, so I’ll go back through the posts and get the link to order it. Right now I am just overjoyed that The Outcast and Arlo are doing so well! Here’s a video I took of them at lunch. I gave them some of the fd Calif. blackworms, and was once again thrilled to see how interested they were, and how they interacted! The lighting is terrible, and the water is tinted yellow from the mopanI wood (which I swear by for the tannins), but I just had to show you guys how much improved T.O. Is, and how little Arlo is in comparison! Less than 2” - so how old would you say he is? That’s T.O. at the beginning, then Arlo comes into the picture. T.O. even shows a bit of ‘dominance’ wouldn’t you say? Sure is a different fish, now!

 

Nice vid,
for Outcast and Arlo. Was still struggling with #8 hiding. I decided to rmove the smallest #6 to the 29 with #7-8. It appears to have helped at least #8 is not as timid and hiding as much. All are eating. The other 5 are doing well.
Good Luck!

 

Nice vid,
for Outcast and Arlo. Was still struggling with #8 hiding. I decided to rmove the smallest #6 to the 29 with #7-8. It appears to have helped at least #8 is not as timid and hiding as much. All are eating. The other 5 are doing well.
Good Luck!

Thanks jmaldo! It’s like being in charge of a nursery school with these Discus! Lol

 

HI all,
Thank you all for your continued supports, still feeling upset I lost one, but I know it happens sometimes. I will put an update onto my thread called Trials and tribulations again? on the Discus area of this forum, if any of you would like to know how things are going just check in over there

 

Trials and tribulations again?

It took a bit to find it so here is the link everyone.
Trials And Tribulations Again?

 

Well, I thought I should post to this thread to close it out. I had decided to move the 6 Discus I got from The iFish store and Arlo to the 75 gallon yesterday, and keep Outcast in the hospital tank, since he was in another downhill spiral. The move went well, and Outcast didn’t seem to notice that he was once more alone - he had pretty much stayed in his corner by the air stone. He ate a little, and I didn’t notice anything different - so I had an appointment at the eye doctor after lunch, and I left thinking it would be fun to see how the 7 were getting used to their new tank when I got home. I first went into my bedroom to change my clothes when I got home, and immediately saw that Outcast was floating aimlessly around the tank in the current. Sigh.... I wish I could have done whatever was needed to save him, but he had been off really from the start (I thought his wobbly swimming was due to shipping stress). He would seem to get better for a few days, then go downhill again. Poor little guy..... RIP Outcast.....

On a happier note, here’s a short video of the 7 in the 75g. Not very good, but they were still getting used to their new home, and were still skittish (which you’ll see at the end). They were settling in nicely today, but I was busy moving fence to give the horses more grass to eat, so I’ll get a better video soon.

 

Sorry to hear about outcast ..
You are using wonder shells huh ?
Medicated or normal ?

 

about Outcast. Hang in there. Well you still have 7 to take care of like me.
Tank is looking "Good".

 

Aw sorry to hear of outcast, rip
They look like they love their new home, it looks great Barb! Cracked me up when they darted away, one even going sideways, discus lol
I hope you have all the luck with these 7, I'm sure it will be great

 

Sorry to hear about outcast ..
You are using wonder shells huh ?
Medicated or normal ?

Just the regular ones coralbandit . I had put a small piece in the hospital tank when I first moved Outcast, and he seemed to be more active - although that could have been from the orange peels, and no one to bully him, too. Since the 6 new ones were acclimated to the water in the hospital tank, I wanted the water in the 75 gallon to be as close as possible. Once these shells have dissolved I don’t plan on replacing them, as my well water should have adequate calcium carbonate.

 

I use wonder shells with my live bearers and actually have thought about trying them with my rams ..
To my surprise and actually documented they raised TDS [I am sure with calcium] but lowered pH !
They took my tap water 7.6 pH / 350TDS to 1100 TDS and 6.6 pH...Without adding Baking soda the pH drops hard IMO which could make for some interesting water that rams or discus may just do fine in and blow my speculated TDS numbers for breeding away ? Or prove that pH is a worthless number in most aspects when it comes to breeding parameters.
When I use them fish seem to enjoy them .I buy the largest and break them to pieces with a hammer ..