Outcast Discus

Well, it seems the 4 Discus I bought last month have established a pecking order, and I am concerned about the outcast. From the time I took them from their shipping bags, one has seemed more ‘independent’, and would go exploring on it’s own. I’m almost 100% sure this is the one who I’ve seen being chased a bit, and who did not join in the tug-of-war over the Hans beef heart food. It would wait for a piece to float nearby, or land on the gravel close to it. Now for the past 3 or 4 days it doesn’t appear to be eating at all, and spends 90% of it’s time by itself. I am worried!! It doesn’t appear sick, and it’s respiration’s and movements match the other 3 - but it stays behind the intake tube on the filter most of the time. When it does join the others it isn’t immediately chased, but who knows what signals it’s receiving from the others, as it doesn’t stay with the group very long, now. I’ve watched them all, and they all raise and lower their dorsal and analfins, seemingly randomly, without chasing.

I know Hans recommended I get a bunch more for my 50 gallon Discus tank to cut down on aggression (apparently the more cichlids you have, the less aggression there is), and he swears that 10 Discus in a 50 gallon is just fine, but it goes against everything I’ve learned here about overstocking and having ‘happy’ fish What do you all think? I don’t want to lose this little guy, but I’m not sure putting him in a separate tank would be a good idea, either. C’mon Discus gang, what should I do?

 

As you know I am experiencing the same issues with 2 of my 8 "Blues" I have had for 2 months. Decided to move them tonight.
Hoping for the best.

Your situation is a bit different (less fish/less time). With that said, I would give it some more time. As far as adding more fish?
But let's see what the rest of the gang recommends.
Still a "Newbie" keeping these "Beauties"
Learning all the Time!
Good Luck!

 

As you know I am experiencing the same issues with 2 of my 8 "Blues" I have had for 2 months. Decided to move them tonight. Your situation is a bit different (less fish/less time). With that said, I would give it some more time. As far as adding more fish?
But let's see what the rest of the gang recommends.
Still a "Newbie" keeping these "Beauties"
Learning all the Time!
Good Luck!

Thanks, jmaldo!! I thought of pm’ing you to see how your ‘outcasts’ were doing, but saw that you were having issues with water temps and had postponed the move. Part of me says that I should either move this little guy to it’s own tank, and risk it dying from loneliness, and another part says to let nature take it’s course - as the 3 that are getting along well wouldn’t over crowd the 50 gallon - and then there’s the advice Hans gave me when he called the day my Discus arrived.....$$$$$

 

Good morning. This seems to happen with all discus keepers. I also have one that’s off. It doesn’t seem to eat it’s food. It spits out more than it eats. But it does eat. Also it’s not growing like the rest. Slowly but surely the other are noticing this and he is starting to get pushed around. I’ve got another tank set up and ready for him but I’m still waiting it out.
What is the temp in your tank? Have you tried other foods. Mine won’t touch beef heart. But are now eating flake foods and shrimp pellets along with there favorite fdbw. As to 10 in your tank. No I’m with you! Just to many for a 50.

 

Looks like we're all having the same problem here, I had one leave the group, start facing back corners or walls and not eat. Hit the tank with some prazipro and he's doing a bit better, but is still in and out of the group and not eating much. Not sure what I'm doing next. coralbandit Thedudeiam94 how are yours?

 

Good morning. This seems to happen with all discus keepers. I also have one that’s off. It doesn’t seem to eat it’s food. It spits out more than it eats. But it does eat. Also it’s not growing like the rest. Slowly but surely the other are noticing this and he is starting to get pushed around. I’ve got another tank set up and ready for him but I’m still waiting it out.
What is the temp in your tank? Have you tried other foods. Mine won’t touch beef heart. But are now eating flake foods and shrimp pellets along with there favorite fdbw. As to 10 in your tank. No I’m with you! Just to many for a 50.

Good morning to you, too 86 ssinit! I’m keeping the tank at 84F, as recommended by Hans, and I’m very careful about getting the temp equal when I do WC’s. If you think I should turn it up to 86F, just let me know. This has been gradual with mine, too, although I’m pretty sure this is the same guy that went off by itself more, right from the start. I actually thought at the time that this one would be the alpha because of it was bolder about exploring than the rest. I wanted to feed them Hans food exclusively for at lest the first month, but got some Tetra Pro Tropical Crisps recently for some of my other tanks, and offered it to the Discus a couple days ago - and all but you-know-who ate them. I also thawed a cube of brine shrimp this morning, and that was a big hit with everyone except the outcast, who just lets food float by like he doesn’t even see it. I’ve ordered some of those glass feeding bowls in hopes that, by placing feeding stations around the tank, the loner won’t have to venture out of his corner to eat, and the other 3 can congregate around the ones in the area I normally feed them in. It works with horses! I’ve been thinking about getting another tank set up, too, just in case this turns into a ‘death watch’ - and was drooling over the 75g’s at Petco yesterday. I know I can’t get it, even though the price right now is $99, because I don’t have the space, and my son (downstairs) would go absolutely bonkers over the weight even if I got rid of furniture to make room. Sigh......

Looks like we're all having the same problem here, I had one leave the group, start facing back corners or walls and not eat. Hit the tank with some prazipro and he's doing a bit better, but is still in and out of the group and not eating much. Not sure what I'm doing next. coralbandit Thedudeiam94 how are yours?

I was thinking of doing a round of API General Cure, as that’s what I do with all new fish, and then feed them Fenbendazole for a week. I didn’t do that with these, even though they are actually in their own QT, since there are no other fish, or even snails in their tank, but Hans guarantees his fish to be free of parasites, and I didn’t want to stress them if he medicates them before he ships.

 

Looks like we're all having the same problem here, I had one leave the group, start facing back corners or walls and not eat. Hit the tank with some prazipro and he's doing a bit better, but is still in and out of the group and not eating much. Not sure what I'm doing next. coralbandit Thedudeiam94 how are yours?

Mine are doing great. The “runt” has started growing a lot! It’s also started to bully back however he is still the “runt”. He devours food at feeding time right there with the other discus eats a lot more now! I’ve stopped dosing prazipro after about 10 days and haven’t seen any signs of illness since then!

 

10 seems like a lot but he is the discus guru! I have a 75 gallon with 6 and have one fish that sounds just like yours! I am going to add 3 more this week and see how it goes. I will keep up on water changes and have good filters .

 

I’m not one to use medicine. Its a last resort to me. Hans fish are free of disease as advertised. I spoke to him on frI about mine and he said if he’s eating some that’s ok. If I want to see him eat more raise the temp. So you may want to raise the temp to 86 and see if that helps.

 

Wonder if I should raise mine from 86 to 88 then...?

 

Mine are doing great. The “runt” has started growing a lot! It’s also started to bully back however he is still the “runt”. He devours food at feeding time right there with the other discus eats a lot more now! I’ve stopped dosing prazipro after about 10 days and haven’t seen any signs of illness since then!

That’s wonderful Thedudeiam94! How often during the 10 days did you add prazipro? Since we do very frequent water changes with these guys, I would assume you would need to adjust the dosing directions. I’ve been doing at least 50% WC’s and gravel vacs just about every day, trying to keep the tank clean.

I’m not one to use medicine. Its a last resort to me. Hans fish are free of disease as advertised. I spoke to him on frI about mine and he said if he’s eating some that’s ok. If I want to see him eat more raise the temp. So you may want to raise the temp to 86 and see if that helps.

I don’t reach for meds very often, but I’ve got them just in case (I seem to attract fish in need of rescuing), and prazipro is one I have. I’ve raised the temp a degree, and will raise it again in the morning if needed (my heater and my finger dexterity are challenged). I’ve also started the hunt for another tank, as the 5 gallon I have as a QT is fine for my typical sized fish, but not for these Discus (or my 2 SD’s for that matter).....well that’s one way to justify another tank, isn’t it ?

 

If I want to see him eat more raise the temp. So you may want to raise the temp to 86 and see if that helps.

Hmm... I keep mine @ 84.
Interesting. Might give it a go with #7-8 now that they are in the 29g.

I’ve been thinking about getting another tank set up, too, just in case this turns into a ‘death watch’ - and was drooling over the 75g’s at Petco yesterday. I know I can’t get it, even though the price right now is $99, because I don’t have the space, and my son (downstairs) would go absolutely bonkers over the weight even if I got rid of furniture to make room. Sigh......

LOL, tell him you'll set it up in his place. Good Luck!

I have a 75 gallon with 6 and have one fish that sounds just like yours! I am going to add 3 more this week and see how it goes. I will keep up on water changes and have good filters .

Another member to the "Discus" gang. Welcome! Let's see your fish/tank.

 

OK late day /night for the old guy working out of town ..
My thread is rotten with fish facts and slow updates so my discus need a home ..Maybe this thread ?
Started with 6 in bag from Hans at my LFS and then went back for 4 more after release .
I had 10 in a deep blue 60 gallonfrag tank [48x24x13 tall]. My checkerboards have been the odd bunch out but they were in second group and smallest of all IMO.
The snakeskin have been alpha with stiff competition from the Dark angels I netted thinking they were powder blue as part of the second group with the checkerboards.
So with frail checkerboards on of my larger Stendkler Tefe is first to pass ! Then I see the snakeskin just having it out with the other tefe ..
The snakeskins got moved to their own tank ,trying the opposite of removing the runt as they are easily replaced in hierarchy I pulled the alphas ..
Now the 60gwith the last 7 is LAME ! No joke ?? Myabe things change and they will catch on but feeding has dropped off and the activity level is pathetic !
Losing 1 out 10 if they were my rams would not phase me one little bit at all. I will wait till week end but if the tank with 7 does not pick up I will add the snakeskins back !
On a funny the competition for alpha the dark angel [one of them ] hangs out with one of the checkerboards ? From alpha to runt lover ???
I need to treat these fish like rams ..They are not special just new to me ..Keep your temps up everyone ..I will gues early on in my discus keeping attempt that temp is way more important then many think ..Safer higher then lower ...

 

I have seen many kinds of variations of the pecking order. A small one getting into a growth sprint and suddenly chase fish that use to chase the other way around. The more fish you have the less stress on one individual. I think I wrote it somewhere else but my alpha only chases no. 2 - 4 or so in the hierarchy and lower down the same happens where no. 5/6 seems to only chase a few others. The other advantage is that they seem to "hide" in the numbers, so a chase is usually very short my tank. Might just be a quick 180 degree turn and then behind another fish and the chaser already lost interest - or lost sight of the chase object?

One thing that hasn't changed though - there are always 1 - 2 fish at the bottom of the hierarchy. In my case I have mostly lost them after a period of time. They don't look sick but just kind of wither away and suddenly turning black and then there is no way back. It is almost always the weaker / smaller fish so some could probably be written off to the nature of things as these would never have made it far were they hatched and grown in the "wild" but still annoying to lose fish, and not less when they are expensive. My 20+ discus something now seem quite settled but there are still a few weaker ones, stunted and although they seem healthy they will now never managed to move up the hierarchy and I will not be surprised if this will end up in a shorter lifespan in the end. So do everything you can to get them eating and growing....

One other thing, I am almost 100% certain that I would have lost a lot less fish the last 18 month had I been aware of the benefits of using Potassium Permanganate. I got a feeling that some of my deceased fish started their deroute with flukes and minor issues that are not as easily spotted as a long string of white poo or similar. I then let it go too far and then the medicine either didn't help or outright killed them because they were already too weak. So for those of you who still haven't looked into PP I would strongly recommend doing so, will save you money on expensive medicine too....it might send that runt on a growth spurt afterwards and even if it doesn't you have likely saved yourself from some other issues down the road!

Finally, I don't see a problem with 10 3 - 4" in a 50 Gal bare bottom tank as long as you have a plan for moving them to something bigger in maximum 6 months time.

 

Sorry to here you lost one coral. Those Tefe looked big. Most of your first group looked bigger than mine. No idea why it died? Also I’ve never seen aggression with discus. Guess I was lucky. That’s how mine have allways acted. They just swim around and at best follow me. Unless being fed than they get active. Being yours are bigger they may need a bigger tank.

Like fa4960 when one of mine chases another it just darts to the other side of the tank and it’s all over. 2 min later those 2 will be swimming next to each other. I have no pecking order since I’ve moved them into the 125. Only one that catches abuse is the blue snakeskin because it’s not eating enough. Now this will probably change as they get bigger.

When you move your snakeskins back I bet there not the Alpha fish anymore.

 

Sorry to here you lost one coral. Those Tefe looked big. Most of your first group looked bigger than mine. No idea why it died?

When you move your snakeskins back I bet there not the Alpha fish anymore.

No clue no symptoms or behavior noticed . Maybe I was too focused on the checkerboards just hanging low . I saw no aggression till after the first tefe passed and then saw the snakeskins whipping on the other tefe pretty hard .. I think they have plenty of room .It is funny without the two trying to hog all the food and chase everyone off how the whole eating behavior changed ! For both which is understandable for the two moved but the others ?? The rams are loving it !

 

Hmm... I keep mine @ 84.
Interesting. Might give it a go with #7-8 now that they are in the 29g.

I got my tank up to 86, and *maybe* the outcast is a little more active today - still haven’t seen it eat, though.

Another member to the "Discus" gang. Welcome! Let's see your fish/tank.

Yes! Welcome to this great group of Discus keepers! I would never have attempted to get these fish if it weren’t for all the knowledgeable, caring people here!

I have seen many kinds of variations of the pecking order. A small one getting into a growth sprint and suddenly chase fish that use to chase the other way around. The more fish you have the less stress on one individual. I think I wrote it somewhere else but my alpha only chases no. 2 - 4 or so in the hierarchy and lower down the same happens where no. 5/6 seems to only chase a few others. The other advantage is that they seem to "hide" in the numbers, so a chase is usually very short my tank. Might just be a quick 180 degree turn and then behind another fish and the chaser already lost interest - or lost sight of the chase object?

One thing that hasn't changed though - there are always 1 - 2 fish at the bottom of the hierarchy. In my case I have mostly lost them after a period of time. They don't look sick but just kind of wither away and suddenly turning black and then there is no way back. It is almost always the weaker / smaller fish so some could probably be written off to the nature of things as these would never have made it far were they hatched and grown in the "wild" but still annoying to lose fish, and not less when they are expensive. My 20+ discus something now seem quite settled but there are still a few weaker ones, stunted and although they seem healthy they will now never managed to move up the hierarchy and I will not be surprised if this will end up in a shorter lifespan in the end. So do everything you can to get them eating and growing....

One other thing, I am almost 100% certain that I would have lost a lot less fish the last 18 month had I been aware of the benefits of using Potassium Permanganate. I got a feeling that some of my deceased fish started their deroute with flukes and minor issues that are not as easily spotted as a long string of white poo or similar. I then let it go too far and then the medicine either didn't help or outright killed them because they were already too weak. So for those of you who still haven't looked into PP I would strongly recommend doing so, will save you money on expensive medicine too....it might send that runt on a growth spurt afterwards and even if it doesn't you have likely saved yourself from some other issues down the road!

Finally, I don't see a problem with 10 3 - 4" in a 50 Gal bare bottom tank as long as you have a plan for moving them to something bigger in maximum 6 months time.

I do plan on looking into PP, as what I’ve read so far is very interesting. I feel like I’m still too new to Discus to experiment too much with their care - I’m just following in the footsteps of everyone here who know so much more than I do about caring for them. I do know that with any ‘schooling’ fish, really, there will be a hierarchy - I just hoped they would work it out without any losses. I’d have to win the lottery to be able to get a larger tank in 6 mos - ‘cause I’d have to get a bigger house first!

OK late day /night for the old guy working out of town ..
My thread is rotten with fish facts and slow updates so my discus need a home ..Maybe this thread ?
Started with 6 in bag from Hans at my LFS and then went back for 4 more after release .
I had 10 in a deep blue 60 gallonfrag tank [48x24x13 tall]. My checkerboards have been the odd bunch out but they were in second group and smallest of all IMO.
The snakeskin have been alpha with stiff competition from the Dark angels I netted thinking they were powder blue as part of the second group with the checkerboards.
So with frail checkerboards on of my larger Stendkler Tefe is first to pass ! Then I see the snakeskin just having it out with the other tefe ..
The snakeskins got moved to their own tank ,trying the opposite of removing the runt as they are easily replaced in hierarchy I pulled the alphas ..
Now the 60gwith the last 7 is LAME ! No joke ?? Myabe things change and they will catch on but feeding has dropped off and the activity level is pathetic !
Losing 1 out 10 if they were my rams would not phase me one little bit at all. I will wait till week end but if the tank with 7 does not pick up I will add the snakeskins back !
On a funny the competition for alpha the dark angel [one of them ] hangs out with one of the checkerboards ? From alpha to runt lover ???
I need to treat these fish like rams ..They are not special just new to me ..Keep your temps up everyone ..I will gues early on in my discus keeping attempt that temp is way more important then many think ..Safer higher then lower ...

Sorry for your loss coralbandit! I’m hoping I don’t lose my Flachen, even if it sounds like that’s a real possibility. I’m keeping the temp up, and my fingers crossed - for all of us!

Ok guys, here’s my plan: I got a 20 gallon high set up on my dresser in my bedroom (don’t laugh - it’s the only space I could free up!), bare bottom, hob, heater turned up to 86, and an air stone. I put about 10 gallons of water from the 55 gallon in, and one of the filter pads from the Aqueon 750 that filters the 50 gallon to kick start the cycle.

I also got a new Hygger heater for the 50 gallon ‘cause it has a digital control and temp probe, which I’ve set at 86F (turns out the temp I had set with the manual knob on the original heater was 87.3, so I wasn’t too far off!), and I turned off the light to minimize any stress for the outcast. I still haven’t seen him eat, but he doesn’t look like he’s getting skinny. I know Hans says they can go a week without eating with no ill effects, but it’s been almost a week, now. He does seem a little more active, and comes out from behind the intake tube to join the others when I am at the tank, most of the time.

So, my plan is to move the 2 Turq’s into the 20 gallon (should it become necessary to split up the group), and leave the other Flachen in the 50 gallon with the outcast, so he won’t be all alone. My reasoning is that the Turq’s are the most dominant, and obviously healthier, so they would be better able to take the stress of moving into a new home. And hopefully, having the other Flachen (which I’ve never seen show aggression towards the outcast) as a buddy will allow the outcast to take an interest in his world. What do you all think?

 

I wouldn't do bare bottom in the 20 honestly. Or at least not a totally bare tank. When I moved one of mine to a 20 high (completely bare) he spent more time stressing out and trying to hide from everything than he did anything else.

 

Ok me I would not move the stronger fish. They have no problem now but a move may change that. You want them in the 50with more room. Since you only have 4 as a last choose I would only move the one. A 20 gal will need to be cleaned daily to keep the water clean. At first feed just a little and see what it eats. Change foods till you find what it likes. Than just feed what it likes.
I too have a flachen that is not eating as much as the rest. But I won’t move it till there’s no other choice.

 

I wouldn't do bare bottom in the 20 honestly. Or at least not a totally bare tank. When I moved one of mine to a 20 high (completely bare) he spent more time stressing out and trying to hide from everything than he did anything else.

I did put 2 pieces of mopanI wood near a corner to make a ‘mountain’ to hide behind - would that be OK? I should have said I didn’t add any substrate

Ok me I would not move the stronger fish. They have no problem now but a move may change that. You want them in the 50with more room. Since you only have 4 as a last choose I would only move the one. A 20 gal will need to be cleaned daily to keep the water clean. At first feed just a little and see what it eats. Change foods till you find what it likes. Than just feed what it likes.
I too have a flachen that is not eating as much as the rest. But I won’t move it till there’s no other choice.

That sounds reasonable, 86 ssinit. I guess I was thinking about advice I’d read in other threads that a lot of times removing the aggressive fish for a while, then putting it back with the others takes the wind out of it’s sails, and it plays nice with everyone after that. Yes, I know I’d have to clean the 20 gallon daily, but especially moving just the outcast to the 20 gallon with no substrate would make it easy to tell how much it’s eating. I like that I could feed it a variety to see what it likes, as it could be that it’s a very picky eater who won’t challenge the others even when I offer food it might like. Not sure if I said in an earlier post that I got some of the Tropical Crisps, and I give them some thawed brine shrimp a couple times a week, and some mushed up shelled/cooked peas from the garden

 

I did put 2 pieces of mopani wood near a corner to make a ‘mountain’ to hide behind - would that be OK? I should have said I didn’t add any substrate

It might be, if you do end up having to move them I would put at least one hiding spot for each fish. So maybe a simple plastic plant would work.

 

It might be, if you do end up having to move them I would put at least one hiding spot for each fish. So maybe a simple plastic plant would work.

What a great idea! I never thought of that, but it would sure be easier than potted live plants! Thanks!

 

So far I will say my split is working ok ?
Everyone seems to be getting back up to speed and acting interested in things .
I noted in the beginning of the checkerboards seeming off or lowest on chain that they picked food off the bottom more then any others .
That led me to throw in some of my #3 grow crumble pellets so sit on bottom until they get cleaned up .
For the most part I find no food left over later so I assume they are still picking away as opposed to competing for the black worms on the cube with others..

 

Good info everyone. Remains to be seen how #7-8, I moved to the 29 gallon respond. Right now they have paired up mainly hiding behind the driftwood together. Every now and then #7 will venture out and look around. Have yet to see #8 venture out. Does not mean it hasn't. It has only been 3 days. Only time will tell.

 

Good morning all! On aggression when eating. I’ve found when I add the loose blackworms and they float all over the tank I have no problems with aggression. But when I stick a cube on the glass they go crazy! Fighting with each other to get at the cube. So I’ve determined cubes= aggression!! .

 

Good morning all! On aggression when eating. I’ve found when I add the loose blackworms and they float all over the tank I have no problems with aggression. But when I stick a cube on the glass they go crazy! Fighting with each other to get at the cube. So I’ve determined cubes= aggression!! .

I too have noted this ..Even the cube gets spit out and floats away so others get it like loose ,but the battle for the cube is real amongst some ..
It does seem to have completely gone away for the time with the snakeskins in their own tank now for me..
Here is something I have started to do on tanks with the ehiem 350 skimmer .. First none of mine have sponges in them any more ..Just pulling off the surface is enough that IMO the sponge is overkill and a maintenance issue..I place half a cube in the skimmer and it spits it out like a food processor into the tanks water column for all to get easy !
Kind of cool .If the worms are still too dry and float up they get sucked through again ! So far everyone loves this !

 

So far I will say my split is working ok ?
Everyone seems to be getting back up to speed and acting interested in things .
I noted in the beginning of the checkerboards seeming off or lowest on chain that they picked food off the bottom more then any others .
That led me to throw in some of my #3 grow crumble pellets so sit on bottom until they get cleaned up .
For the most part I find no food left over later so I assume they are still picking away as opposed to competing for the black worms on the cube with others..

That’s fantastic coralbandit! I haven’t even seen my outcast Flachen picking off the bottom

I too have noted this ..Even the cube gets spit out and floats away so others get it like loose ,but the battle for the cube is real amongst some ..
It does seem to have completely gone away for the time with the snakeskins in their own tank now for me..
Here is something I have started to do on tanks with the ehiem 350 skimmer .. First none of mine have sponges in them any more ..Just pulling off the surface is enough that IMO the sponge is overkill and a maintenance issue..I place half a cube in the skimmer and it spits it out like a food processor into the tanks water column for all to get easy !
Kind of cool .If the worms are still too dry and float up they get sucked through again ! So far everyone loves this !

I’ve been pulling the Hans beefheart apart into four pieces, and hold one piece in the water for the 3 flourishing Discus to eat from for a few seconds. They all gather ‘round and tear into it. No one shows aggression, and when I let what’s left in my fingers go one catches it, and the others try to grab it away. Then I distribute 3 more pieces around the tank - 2 near where the 3 are, and one piece as close to the outcast as I can get it (the current sometimes foils my aim). The outcast pays no real attention, and eventually one or more of the others notices that piece and goes after it. When I put a thawed cube of brine shrimp in the tank, it immediately flys everywhere, and it’s game on for the 3 who are eating - but the outcast ignores the shrimp floating by. I tried the glass cups with slit openings in the bottom for feeding the beefheart, but the consistency of it doesn’t work well unless I keep mashing it down so that some squirts out the slits. I did see that the three who are eating well would congregate at one cup, and pull as much out as they could, and ignored the other cup (that I had placed near the outcast’s hiding spot) until they were sure they couldn’t get any more out of the cup - so tomorrow brine shrimp is on the menu, and I think they will work better in the cups. I always thaw any frozen food, but it sounds like you put the frozen cube in the tank, and let it thaw and release the food, so maybe I’ll cut a frozen brine shrimp cube in half, and put a half in each cup to see what happens.

 

Mine are a bit different. Here is my regimen.
I cut the cube into 4 pieces add it to a 1/2 cup of water along with a cube of frozen blood worms or brine shrimp and let stand for about 10 mins. Then pour into the center of the tank. It''s a mad frenzy for about 5 mins. everyone just trying to eat. Some tug of wars appear to happen, but they will grab it and tear it apart.
Once everyone has had their initial fill. This is when the chasing starts, mainly by the Alpha and then the Beta will join in. The Alpha and Beta are not really eating at this point but shooing away anyone coming into their perceived/claimed territory. This last for about 10 mins. Then everyone is picking at any scraps or floaters being pushed around by the spraybars, Nothing remaining after about 15 mins.. I have watched this over and over again.
I have also been feeding some blackworm pellets and Diskusgold crumbles. Some of these do float for a a few seconds but eventually sink to the bottom. Everyone usually cleans them up within 5-10 minutes. Oh, yeah, let's not forget the 6 EBA juveniles sharing the tank. They have no fear and join right in.

 

Good morning all! On aggression when eating. I’ve found when I add the loose blackworms and they float all over the tank I have no problems with aggression. But when I stick a cube on the glass they go crazy! Fighting with each other to get at the cube. So I’ve determined cubes= aggression!! .

I agree 86 ssinit, that’s why feeding the Hans beefheart is challenging. It doesn’t break up into ‘bite sized’ pieces until there’s a tug-of-war - and my outcast won’t risk even going after small pieces that float by anymore. He did at first, and I never saw any aggression aimed specifically at him, but I didn’t watch them eat small chunk I dropped into the tank because, once their excitement died down, they would split apart and go exploring for the chunks that had settled on the bottom.

Mine are a bit different. Here is my regimen.
I cut the cube into 4 pieces add it to a 1/2 cup of water along with a cube of frozen blood worms or brine shrimp and let stand for about 10 mins. Then pour into the center of the tank. It''s a mad frenzy for about 5 mins. everyone just trying to eat. Some tug of wars appear to happen, but they will grab it and tear it apart.
Once everyone has had their initial fill. This is when the chasing starts, mainly by the Alpha and then the Beta will join in. The Alpha and Beta are not really eating at this point but shooing away anyone coming into their perceived/claimed territory. This last for about 10 mins. Then everyone is picking at any scraps or floaters being pushed around by the spraybars, Nothing remaining after about 15 mins.. I have watched this over and over again.
I have also been feeding some blackworm pellets and Diskusgold crumbles. Some of these do float for a a few seconds but eventually sink to the bottom. Everyone usually cleans them up within 5-10 minutes. Oh, yeah, let's not forget the 6 EBA juveniles sharing the tank. They have no fear and join right in.

Well the two more cups I ordered arrived yesterday, so this morning I cut 2 cubes of brine shrimp in half, and put one piece in each of the cups, which I then put in 4 places around the tank. The Discus were able to pull the thawing shrimp through the slits in the bottom of the cups, and the 3 extroverts each claimed a cup and pretty much stayed there. I got really excited to see the outcast swim up to the cup I had place near his hiding spot, and it appeared he was going to go after the shrimp that were coming out the bottom, but at the last minute he turned away and went back to his ‘safe place’. No one had been swimming towards him until after he turned away from the cup, but what do I know? Maybe one of the others shouted “Look, there’s more over there!” Sigh..... It doesn’t look to me like he’s getting skinny, but the 2 Turqs have definitely gotten bigger, and the other Flachen looks like it’s grown a little bit, too. I guess this next week might be the time for me to decide whether I move any of them, as it’s now been one week since I saw the outcast eat. He still comes out and joins the rest a lot of times when I walk up to the tank, so I’m still hoping his survival instincts will kick in!

 

Going to post this again in case you have not seen it .

I hope this info can help your disc..
Now I am admittedly too lazy to peel oranges so I have been adding orange extract..Not much ..Like 1-2 drops in a 60 gallontank 2 times a week ..Kind of my own idea but all seem to be eating now ..
I did move my two alphas also ,but would like think the orange may have helped/be helping also ?
Albino Dantumn Angels Breeding In Coralbandits Fishroom And More !
Hope we get your guy eating here ..

 

Going to post this again in case you have not seen it .

I hope this info can help your disc..
Now I am admittedly too lazy to peel oranges so I have been adding orange extract..Not much ..Like 1-2 drops in a 60 gallontank 2 times a week ..Kind of my own idea but all seem to be eating now ..
I did move my two alphas also ,but would like think the orange may have helped/be helping also ?
Albino Dantumn Angels Breeding In Coralbandits Fishroom And More !
Hope we get your guy eating here ..

I hadn’t seen your post with the link to the intriguing article about orange peels, coralbandit, so a huge Thank You for posting it again for my benefit!! After reading the article I searched my fridge, and found a slightly shriveled orange , which I rinsed well in hot water, and put the best looking peels in the tank. I’ll be getting some organic oranges today, as I read in another article (you sent me on a quest, you know! ) that you can’t get all the pesticides off oranges, because they get absorbed into the peel. Anyway, while I didn’t believe the amount of orange peel I was able to salvage and put in the tank would make much of an impact, I was already forming a ‘theory’ about why orange peels might stimulate the appetite of *some* Discus

Calcium & KH & GH & PH & Electrolytes & Redox - Oh My! I’m not a chemist, although my father was, so maybe the ‘curiosity’ is in my genes ☺️ I remembered, when I first considered getting Discus, that I had read that they prefer a slightly acidic pH of 6.5, but can tolerate pH as high as 7.8. My well water has a pH of 7.4 - so while not ideal, I was already in the ‘I want these fish’ mode, and reasoned that it was doable with my water, without adding buffers (which I’ve read can end up in a constant battle chasing pH, which is worse for fish than letting them get acclimated to the constant environment that you can provide without additives). Anyway, to get to the bottom line before you all fall asleep - orange peels are acidic, and contain calcium - which we freshwater folk apparently don’t pay enough attention to. So, *maybe* the secret to orange peels is that they lower the pH a bit and/or add some of the correct type of calcium to the water column, which makes a more ‘comfortable’ environment for weaker Discus. Sorta like people needing clean air to breathe, although most of us can tolerate the smog and pollution if we must. But there are some people who will have all sorts of health issues, and ‘fail to thrive’ if they must live in a big city with a lot of smog, or an industrial area with even more pollutants in the air. Feel free to point out my flawed reasoning, just don’t throw rotten tomatoes!

BTW, after a couple hours of orange peels floating around in the tank last night, my 3 extroverts were acting like kids on a sugar high, and really tore into their beef heart when I fed them - showing the most aggression I’ve ever seen. The introvert seemed more active, but no miracles, so far. As I said earlier - I’ll be getting some organic oranges shortly, and will keep ya’ll posted!

 

NIce !!!
I add drops of extract which are orange and alcohol . Once oranges are dehydrated they are not really easily soluble by much quickly..They use alcohol as it is a common solvent..
I noted the first day I added drops that all fish seemed 'stimulated' ??
I definitely think there is way more to water then most think..We only test for things we know and understand ..I think we are still missing a lot or getting lucky with the info we have ?
I hope this helps out the fish .

 

coralbandit is that the same as essential oil? I have %100 pure orange essential oil says it’s made from squeezed orange peel. Would that be the same as what you’re using?

 

I am not sure about essential oil? If it is consumable then I would think safe?

 

Tragedy of the unexpected kind has struck (but it has given me the courage to move the outcast)! The evening before last I was cleaning the Discus tank, and noticed that a film of pure grease was coating the glass and filter. Since it was almost time to do a media rinse I decided to do a really close inspection of the filter - and was disgusted by the amount of grease from the beef heart. I wiped out a lot, rinsed the least greasy filter pad in the tank water bucket,
put a completely new pad in the second frame, and completely brushed out the intake tube, impeller, etc. I also wiped the glass moderately, so as not to get a lot of grease in the water column. While doing that I had the python running fresh water into the tank, while my manual gravel cleaner was sucking water out into a bucket - I also kept the air stone going to oxygenate the water. Everything seemed to go well, and it took less than 10 minutes longer to do that compared to a normal gravel clean/WC - which is done with everything turned off. But a few minutes after I finished I heard a splash (there’s about 3” of air space between the top of the water and the hood), and when I turned to look I saw one of the Discus going bonkers! He was tearing around the tank hitting the sides, which seemed to stun him for a few seconds, then off he would go again. The other 3 went and hid behind the intake tube. After 4 or 5 times zipping madly around the tank the Discus started floating on it’s side, and was clearly not doing well. While I was quickly debating moving it, it died... All of this happened in less than 2 minutes, and I was *really* bummed that I had killed one of my Discus. I naturally thought it was the outcast, but then, to add to my distress I realized that it was the other Flachen, and the outcast was in it’s usual place behind the intake tube while the Turqs had decided the coast was clear, and had come to the front of the tank to see what was going on!

So, while I am mourning the loss of one of my beautiful fish, and humbled by the experience - and hoping someone here can offer an opinion on what I did to cause it - I decided this morning to move the outcast into the 20g, since it’s still not eating, and it will be much easier to tempt it with a variety of foods. I have freeze dried black worms on the way (the California grown ones since the ones from Australia you were talking about aren’t available). I sure hope I can save this one!

 

Tragedy of the unexpected kind has struck (but it has given me the courage to move the outcast)! The evening before last I was cleaning the Discus tank, and noticed that a film of pure grease was coating the glass and filter. Since it was almost time to do a media rinse I decided to do a really close inspection of the filter - and was disgusted by the amount of grease from the beef heart. I wiped out a lot, rinsed the least greasy filter pad in the tank water bucket,
put a completely new pad in the second frame, and completely brushed out the intake tube, impeller, etc. I also wiped the glass moderately, so as not to get a lot of grease in the water column. While doing that I had the python running fresh water into the tank, while my manual gravel cleaner was sucking water out into a bucket - I also kept the air stone going to oxygenate the water. Everything seemed to go well, and it took less than 10 minutes longer to do that compared to a normal gravel clean/WC - which is done with everything turned off. But a few minutes after I finished I heard a splash (there’s about 3” of air space between the top of the water and the hood), and when I turned to look I saw one of the Discus going bonkers! He was tearing around the tank hitting the sides, which seemed to stun him for a few seconds, then off he would go again. The other 3 went and hid behind the intake tube. After 4 or 5 times zipping madly around the tank the Discus started floating on it’s side, and was clearly not doing well. While I was quickly debating moving it, it died... All of this happened in less than 2 minutes, and I was *really* bummed that I had killed one of my Discus. I naturally thought it was the outcast, but then, to add to my distress I realized that it was the other Flachen, and the outcast was in it’s usual place behind the intake tube while the Turqs had decided the coast was clear, and had come to the front of the tank to see what was going on!

So, while I am mourning the loss of one of my beautiful fish, and humbled by the experience - and hoping someone here can offer an opinion on what I did to cause it - I decided this morning to move the outcast into the 20g, since it’s still not eating, and it will be much easier to tempt it with a variety of foods. I have freeze dried black worms on the way (the California grown ones since the ones from Australia you were talking about aren’t available). I sure hope I can save this one!

Have you purchased any prazipro yet? I had dosed my tank for 2 weeks after losing one in the first week of dosing and now everything seems to be a okay! Stopped feeding Hans flake almost completely and have only fed fdbw, frozen blood worm cubes, brine shrimp cubes, mysis shrimp cubes and beef heart cubes. Cutting the cubes in half and mixing 2 different kind of cube 1/2 one 1/2 another and squeezing them until they stick together and tossing it in, been using this method for a little over 2 and a half weeks now and have seen the fish take a complete 180! No itching, scratching, hiding, thrashing. Pecking order almost neutral and everyone is at a pretty equal playing field. Definitely changed the entire demeanor of the tank!

 

Sorry for the loss . In my opinion that had to be something with the water. Surprising it only affected one.

Yes the beefheart is just dirty. It just doesn’t belong and mine refused it right after they ate the fdbw. Also just bought some CalI worms. Funny that you can only buy 10 grams now.

Hows the outcast doing? Funny I figured out my outcast will only eat dry worms. It won’t eat the ones I let soak. Great I’ve got one with an eating disorder. But if there dry he does fill up on them so at least it’s eating.

 

Have you purchased any prazipro yet? I had dosed my tank for 2 weeks after losing one in the first week of dosing and now everything seems to be a okay! Stopped feeding Hans flake almost completely and have only fed fdbw, frozen blood worm cubes, brine shrimp cubes, mysis shrimp cubes and beef heart cubes. Cutting the cubes in half and mixing 2 different kind of cube 1/2 one 1/2 another and squeezing them until they stick together and tossing it in, been using this method for a little over 2 and a half weeks now and have seen the fish take a complete 180! No itching, scratching, hiding, thrashing. Pecking order almost neutral and everyone is at a pretty equal playing field. Definitely changed the entire demeanor of the tank!

I already had prazipro on hand when you mentioned earlier that you had been dosing your tank, so I dosed my tank and replied to you post asking how often you added prazipro to your tank because I figured we remove a lot of any ‘additive’ with all the frequent cleaning/water changes we do. I didn’t hear back, and I haven’t dosed my tank again, but it’s been at least a week, so I probably should.

So glad your guys are doing so well!! I haven’t seen mine appearing itchy, or flashing, and I wouldn’t call the crazy behavior of the one that died an attempt to dislodge something that was irritating it - but who knows?!

 

I already had prazipro on hand when you mentioned earlier that you had been dosing your tank, so I dosed my tank and replied to you post asking how often you added prazipro to your tank because I figured we remove a lot of any ‘additive’ with all the frequent cleaning/water changes we do. I didn’t hear back, and I haven’t dosed my tank again, but it’s been at least a week, so I probably should.

So glad your guys are doing so well!! I haven’t seen mine appearing itchy, or flashing, and I wouldn’t call the crazy behavior of the one that died an attempt to dislodge something that was irritating it - but who knows?!

Yes I added the amount of prazipro I removed during my water changes back to the new water being added into the tank. So if I removed 10 gallons I added a dose of prazipro equal to 10 gallons and did that every other day for 7 days and results were visible.

 

The flachen flipping out sounds like how I have lost a few older Roseline sharks ..
I really figured heart attack as they were older and they passed so fast ..
If the others seem fine still I would chalk it up to something with the individual fish ?
I might reconsider the beef heart ?? I am old school and hard to change my mind on things but if it greases things up I am convinced on never for me , just like salt ..Never ..