Otos mating?

armadillo
  • #1
HI all. My otos were doing something really weird the other day. One was smelling the other's bum (like dogs, or mollies!), then the smeller kind of wrapped his body around the smellee. They repeated that a few times. Do you reckon they were mating?

Oh, and how do I know if they've juveniles or adults?
 
Radcliffe
  • #2
I think that wrap around is a sign of mating yes!

(not sure on the rest though)

--R
 
COBettaCouple
  • #3
i'm not sure how to tell juvies other than size maybe but I don't think they breed easily in captivity so that's pretty cool if yours have. any sign of eggs anywhere in the tank?
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
That would be so cool!

Didn't look for eggs. What would they look like? Like a huuuge pile do you think, or something way more discrete?

I've had literally 5 mins. of fish time this week. Damned work! I had to travel for pretty much the whole week.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #5
i'm not sure on the oto eggs.. they could be all over or stuck together like a blob of caviar.. just check for small, tiny, tiny little round eggs - possibly white.
 
Carillon
  • #6
This is an excellent link about Otos breeding. Apparently their mating and breeding habits are very similar to Corydoras catfish. Their eggs are scattered, and not in clumps.
 
0morrokh
  • #7
That's pretty cool if they're mating. Keep an eye on them...they might do it again. Just keep in mind that other fish love to eat eggs.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
This is an excellent link about Otos breeding. Apparently their mating and breeding habits are very similar to Corydoras catfish. Their eggs are scattered, and not in clumps.
Wow. Thanks, Carillon. That picture of them mating is EXACTLY what they were doing. Cool!

That's pretty cool if they're mating. Keep an eye on them...they might do it again. Just keep in mind that other fish love to eat eggs.
They've done it a couple of times. I don't think there's much I can do about the other fish eating the eggs. I guess que sera sera. Their tank mates are voracious molly fry who would eat their own flesh if that was an option.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #9
maybe what you could do is setup a small tank for them.. let them do their thing and lay the eggs, then move them back to the other tank and you'd have fry soon enough.
 
0morrokh
  • #10
That's what I'd do...set up the q tank with a sponge filter and some live plants to help the water quality, and stick in the Otos. I would email the guy who runs Otocinclus.com. He sort of keeps track of Otocinclus spawnings, and could probably give you some tips. Also it'd be great if you could get pics of them mating...currently there are not a whole lot of those around.
 
Radcliffe
  • #11
That's pretty cool if they're mating. Keep an eye on them...they might do it again. Just keep in mind that other fish love to eat eggs.
They've done it a couple of times. I don't think there's much I can do about the other fish eating the eggs. I guess que sera sera. Their tank mates are voracious molly fry who would eat their own flesh if that was an option.

My Ottos have been doing a mating like dance lately. I have been kinda hoping to see eggs, so that I could scoop them up and into a breeding net to have in that same tank. That might not work, but it is worth a try

--R
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Alright, guys. You win. We're moving the molly fry over to the huge tank. Nice and roomy. They were getting too big for the 7G. So now the otos will be completely on their own. Oh, and thanks for the link, 0morrokh. I checked it out. I'm going to contact the guy.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #13
cool.. I hope you'll be seeing oto eggs before long.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
They were at it again this morning. What is it with my fish and, like, constant mating???

She's getting box-like in the middle so am entertaining no doubt that she's full of eggs.

Did a lot of reading on otos mating now, and it seems the male defends the eggs. How cool is that? Am guessing you're a little blase'd with that behaviour with your malachais, but I thought that was so cool.

It also seems that unless the tank is very mature and covered in algae, there's next to no chance of the fry making it beyond a week old. I could put the tank in direct sunlight, but that would defeat the point as I am having otos for the purpose of getting rid of algae! Also, it's a small tank, so they'd boil in no time. Apparently, they need live algae, not manufactured flakes.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #15
lol.. well the mahachaI were back to flirting before the fry were even a week old.

so you need to create a lot of algae in the tank for the fry... do you have any fluorescent bulb lamps? i've found that algae seems to grow fastest under FL light so maybe putting that tank under those lights would help encourage algae growth. and if you or a friend has any algae covered substrata in a tank, maybe you could scoop it into a cup and 'seed' the tank with algae? that's about all I can think of - i've not spent any time considering how to make algae before.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Yeah I know, it's kind of my world upside down here: having to think of how to make algae! Honestly...

They are fluorescent light bulbs already, so I guess I can't improve from that. I am nervous of leaving the tank in direct sunlight what with the temperature. And they are otos, so they don't like the water too hot. Do you think it would work just behind the window, but with the curtains closed? Would that already be enough sunlight to promote dramatic algae growth?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #17
do you know what temp your light is? you could try a higher bulb, like 10,000k to speed up growth perhaps.. or a 50/50 or full-specturm FL bulb to bring in more of a color spectrum, which should also help.

I think indirect sunlight would help some.. I just got an idea.. what if you took some gravel or better yet, a piece of decor like a cave, put it in a container filled with treated tap water and put that on a window sill? then when it's got algae growing on it, you could transfer it to the oto fry tank. (sort of another 'seeding' idea)

that, plus indirect sunlight and a FL bulb would give you 3 ways of you trying to promote algae growth.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
Ooooh, clever! But don't algae need some kind of organic waste to grow? Would that work without fish?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #19
Ooooh, clever! But don't algae need some kind of organic waste to grow? Would that work without fish?

hmm.. you could drop fish flakes in every 12 hours & borrow a page from the fishless cycling book? I don't know if that would be the same effect or not since it's all untested theory to me.. or you can use a turkey baster to collect fish poo and squirt it into a cup/bowl and then dump that in and have authentic organic waste. lol
 
Butterfly
  • #20
One of the guys at loaches online keeps a tank on his balcony with water and rocks in it to grow algae for his Hillstream Loaches. I have also done it for my bristlenose fry.For bacteria food, rinse your filter in the water you put outside or some of the junk you vacuum out of the bottom. As algae grows and they eat it just rotate rocks back and forth between the algae farm and the otos tank. Make sure you put it where it can get lots of sun. A small tank or 1 gallon jar would work. Hope that helps
That is an excellent oto site by the way.
Carol
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
All great ideas, thanks.

Balcony guy: Does this mean that his loaches change tank all the time? I presume they eat it all up really quickly, and then he has to put them in newly 'balconie'd' tank? I don't think my otos would take kindly to that much change.

I love the idea of rock surfaces to leave outside in water. And great idea about rinsing the filter outside for bacterial food for the algae.

I love that loaches site, by the way. Great site. I'd been on it a lot while looking at khulI loaches (which we're definitely getting) and butterfly loaches the other week.

New questions:

1/ I don't have a spare tank. Will an old pan do (to leave outside)? Or must the sides be transparent for maximum sunlight?

2/ We have a huuuge land snail problem. I'll bet the outside container would be full of them after 1 day. Wouldn't that be a problem disease-wise? Won't they infect the water with whatever disease/parasites they carry?

3/ Should I leave the container outside uncovered, for more sunlight? Or will that attract unwelcome pathogens?
 
Butterfly
  • #22
No his loaches don't move from one tank to the other, the rocks do you know grow algae then move the rock inside, when the algae is all eaten move the rock back out to grow more algae and move another inside. any container that will keep the rocks covered will work.
Butterfly loach is another name for Hillstream loaches I loved mine.HL don't eat the algae just the tiny microscopic critters that grow in algae
Put a ring of salt around the container your putting outside and the snails won't be able to cross it. An old pan should be fine as long a it's clean and the rocks re covered. Flat, rough rocks seem to algae better
Carol
 
COBettaCouple
  • #23
sounds like what would work for you would be a clear rubbermaid container with a solid lid.. if you have a container with a clear or at least opaque white lid that will give you more sun.

EDIT: Duh! how could I forget the salt ring? Carol's right on, definitely do that. oh yea, it will also protect you from vampire bettas. :
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
Oooops. I've put an opaque container, with no lid. Doh! I'll go buy something more suitable.

Great news: she's spawned. A lot of the eggs are fluffly, so I presume they're rotten, but some are transparent and you can see their eyes. We can also see their minute tail wriggling so I presume they spawned yesterday.
 
Butterfly
  • #25
Wahoo!!! Yes the white fuzzy one are no good spawned yest should be pretty well wigglers/free swimming tomorrow. They will have a yolk sac for a few days then be ready to eat. If you don't have algae by FrI then a piece of green veggie(zucchini, cucumber etc) or an algae tablet might work.
the man who runs otocinclus will be thrilled to hear they spawned. How about notifying him.
WE NEED PICTURES!!!
CArol
 
COBettaCouple
  • #26
yea.. if you can remove the fuzzy ones carefully with a turkey baster and not disturb the others, it is helpful for fungus prevention (if the parents don't eat the fuzzy eggs).. or methylene blue in the water. can't wait for pics! ;D
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
Just sent him a mail. I also went to the pet store to buy this really cheap fish bowl and some rough background. I am going to snip bits off the background and let algae grow on it in the bowl in the garden. I'll cover the top of that bowl, and use water from other tanks and i"ll rinse out some filter medium to seed it.

Am sure they have hatched, as we saw some little eyes moving. Havent' seen them today, though. Just put in an algae sheet and some HikarI first bite powder.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #28
I guess when you're a tasty snack to everyone, hiding is a good idea. fry are very good at hiding and otos are a little timid anyways.
 
Carillon
  • #29
Wow, congratulations on your spawn! That's really exciting, considering how difficult it is to get otos to spawn at all! You should definitely document this event to the fullest!

Good luck growing algae! (Could always ship you some of mine ... one of my tanks just got it bad. Our apartment is just way too sunny and bright right now!)
 
COBettaCouple
  • #30
If you need something green and fuzzy, I'll mail you a container of cottage cheese..
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Wow, congratulations on your spawn! That's really exciting, considering how difficult it is to get otos to spawn at all! You should definitely document this event to the fullest!

Good luck growing algae! (Could always ship you some of mine ... one of my tanks just got it bad. Our apartment is just way too sunny and bright right now!)
I never thought I'd say this, but you're soooo lucky. I'd kill for some algae right now. Still not a trace of it!

We took some pictures of the eggs + of one trying to wriggle out, but you can't really distinguis what's going on with that one. There's a really good one of the male sitting next to a couple of eggs. Sorry to make your mouth water like that, but I don't have time to upload it just this minute.

To be honest, after doing some reading, looks the odds of them suriving beyond a week are really low (once their yolk sack is empty, they need loads of algae apparently, and I have, like, zilch). That and the fact that we're going on holidays in a couple of days' time. Also, I haven't seen a fry in ages. But Thijs reckons that they're just very good at hiding. All in all, it's not boding well for them, really.
 
Butterfly
  • #32
They could still be hiding some where in the tank. But... if they spawned once they will again and now you know what to do to be prepared
Carol
 
Carillon
  • #33
Hey Armadillo,

I may have a partial solution for you! I left a more extensive note in because I was in the algae section when I was thinking about it, but I remembered reading that you can feed baby otos baby brine shrimp, crushed veggie flakes, or boiled spinach!!!

I know you're going on holidays, so I don't know how well it will work this time, but you could always try leaving some boiled spinach in the tank and seeing if the little fry will take to it. If you have a good petsitter, perhaps you can even convince her to feed them boiled spinach while you're away!

Really hope this helps.

Oh, and p.s. -- from what I've read, otos are not inclined to eat their young, so you're good there at least.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #34
They could still be hiding some where in the tank. But... if they spawned once they will again and now you know what to do to be prepared
Carol
Well actually, having read bunches about it in my latest panick, people have experienced getting it once, then not again for years. Funny old things, otos. People do report really often that they didnt' even notice eggs at all, then they see 1/2 sized otos swimming around. This means that the fry managed to stay hidden for weeks and weeks. So there is hope.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #35
Hey Armadillo,

I may have a partial solution for you! I left a more extensive note in because I was in the algae section when I was thinking about it, but I remembered reading that you can feed baby otos baby brine shrimp, crushed veggie flakes, or boiled spinach!!!

I know you're going on holidays, so I don't know how well it will work this time, but you could always try leaving some boiled spinach in the tank and seeing if the little fry will take to it. If you have a good petsitter, perhaps you can even convince her to feed them boiled spinach while you're away!

Really hope this helps.

Oh, and p.s. -- from what I've read, otos are not inclined to eat their young, so you're good there at least.
Thanks, Carillon. Checking it out as soon as I've finished on this one.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #36
those are excellent food ideas and a baby brine shrimp hatchery would be easy to setup and would produce food for the time you'll be away.. another idea might be to crush algae wafers into powder or if you can find hikarI first bites, maybe otos would eat that. another food possibility could be crushed seaweed sheets.. like for sushI rolls.

another thing you could do (if you have the stuff) is put a bowl of tank water directly under a fluorescent light 24hrs a day with a bunch or rocks in it.
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #37
Actually I've got hikarI first bite!

And am growing algae in the garden in a bowl. I figured that'd be even quicker than under a fluorescent light bulb.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #38
Actually I've got hikarI first bite!

And am growing algae in the garden in a bowl. I figured that'd be even quicker than under a fluorescent light bulb.

no peeing in the bowl either!
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #39
Oh, but you said I could, to create ammonia!
 
armadillo
  • Thread Starter
  • #40
Alright, alright. Here's some pix! So on this leaf, you see 2 rotten eggs (fluffy white) + 1 good one (transparent, about 1cm in front of the rotten ones)

And here's another from closer up. If you look carefully, you'll see one of the good eggs in front of the two bad ones. About 1cm in front.

And another few
 

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