Opinions On This Practice?

I work at a small, privately owned pet store. Everyone is friendly, knowledgeable, and several of us know quite a lot about fresh and saltwater tanks.

However, recently, somebody brought it to my boss's attention that I won't sell plecos to people with 10 gallon aquariums. He wasn't angry, but wanted to know why I was denying people sales. I explained that plecos get far too large, and while people usually want them as "algae eaters" they produce a lot of waste which is bad in a small tank. So many people think they NEED a pleco to keep the tank clean even if the tank was set up the day before.

He explained to me to go ahead and sell people the fish, taking into account their water parameters (we are free to discourage people from buying fish for uncycled tanks). He says as long as we give the customer a disclaimer that the fish will outgrow the tank in a few months, there is no issue. Tell the customer to bring it back to trade it for a small one or just have us take it off their hands (and in return sell the now larger pleco again at a higher price).

He also explained that, in setting up large saltwater installments, a 10 foot shark only needs a tank 6 feet wide to turn around, so the same is true of larger fish. I tried using plecos and oscars as examples but was turned down and "accepted" his point of view.

I have been discouraging others from buying, instead recommending Amano shrimp, otocinclus, and bristlenose plecos as alternatives for smaller tanks, but my boss says this is putting myself before the singular mindset of the company...

 

Bristlenose plecs and similar size are the only ones that are remotely acceptable for tiny tanks like a 10 gallon. And that's way too small, a common plec like it sounds you're referring to? That's animal cruelty.

 

Bristlenose plecs and similar size are the only ones that are remotely acceptable for tiny tanks like a 10 gallon. And that's way too small, a common plec like it sounds you're referring to? That's animal cruelty.

Yes, common plecos. I don't recommend bristlenose for anything smaller than a 20 long.

It seems unethical to me, I'm trying to watch out for the safety and well-being of the animals as well as the tank health of the customer.

 

Ok so this is what you do explain size and waste but include the fact that once the pleco starts growing it eats the slime coat off of other fish causing death to the victI'm fish (it's 100% true) and then if they still want it tell them on about a month it will need a bigger tank around 100 gallon for a full grown pleco.

 

To be brutally honest you have 2 choices.
1 quit
2 do what your boss wants.

Its his shop and he pays your wage. He said to tell them it will outgrow their tank and they can bring it back in which I personally think is reasonable.

But if you refuse to sell something because youthink its unethical your directly affecting his livelihood and I honestly would fire any staff who put personal beliefs before company policy.

 

Ok so this is what you do explain size and waste but include the fact that once the pleco starts growing it eats the slime coat off of other fish causing death to the victI'm fish (it's 100% true) and then if they still want it tell them on about a month it will need a bigger tank around 100 gallon for a full grown pleco.

The logic presented to me was "if we give them all the stats about this fish we'd never sell one, because 9/10 people don't have the right sized aquarium. Tell them the fish will get too large; you don't have to mention that it will get 2' long and require a 150 gallon tank."

So I'm supposed to give the size disclaimer and nothing more, aside from telling the customer they will need to supplement their diet with algae wafers.

I really like my job (and quite frankly I need it) but I really hate having to tell customers to their face a bunch of half truths for the sake of consistency amongst employees.

 

It bothers me when bosses do that. My favorite fish stores are not like that at all, and most people appreciate it when they shop there.

Fountain's which is near me, I like because they have interesting nano-fish, quality equipment, and will not sell people fish for tanks that aren't appropriate. However they do have a disease problem in their plumbed tanks. I just don't buy anything out of their plumbed tanks, problem solved. They also have a great plant selection and a really nice reef section and from what I understand, they have great soft and hard corals which are not in plumbed tanks, much like they sell many nano fish that are not in plumbed tanks. They do give good advice though and make sure everyone leaves the store with a decent working knowledge of the nitrogen cycle and drip acclimation.

The other store I like because they have healthy fish and get lots of interesting species. Sadly the most outspoken person in their freshwater department is usually wrong in his advice. He also appears to be on the autism spectrum and absolutely will not listen to anyone, ever, about anything. I make a point not to talk to him when I go there and usually wait for another employee to help me. Generally this store only gives advice when asked. But I have heard several employees tell people they should not get fish x for tank size y.

Please tell your boss that the best way to get return customers is to get them set up right the first time. If they insist on buying the wrong fish, there is nothing you can do. But you can at least talk to the customers that will listen.

 

To be brutally honest you have 2 choices.
1 quit
2 do what your boss wants.

Its his shop and he pays your wage. He said to tell them it will outgrow their tank and they can bring it back in which I personally think is reasonable.

But if you refuse to sell something because youthink its unethical your directly affecting his livelihood and I honestly would fire any staff who put personal beliefs before company policy.

And this is basically what it boiled down to: it's his shop, not mine. In our conversation I tried my best to be as objective as possible; and I think he realizes I simply want happy customers and the fish to be treated humanely. I also never straight up denied a sale, but would persuade people to opt for smaller algae eating fish and shrimp that are more appropriate for their tanks.

I have to follow his decision, whether I like it or not. Plecos, goldfish, and bettas are so abused...

 

Even monster fish keepers tend to agree that large fish need a tank with a depth at least twice their body length in order to successfully turn around without hurting themselves...

How can you justify a 10 foot shark in a tank only 6 feet wide? o.o

 

Even monster fish keepers tend to agree that large fish need a tank with a depth at least twice their body length in order to successfully turn around without hurting themselves...

How can you justify a 10 foot shark in a tank only 6 feet wide? o.o

Because when the shark turns it is not touching the sides of the tank due to it's body bending...

 

Because when the shark turns it is not touching the sides of the tank due to it's body bending...

Imagine how much more comfy it would be in a tank 20 feet wide.

 

But it could never fully extend! Poor thing.

 

There are, unfortunately, many jobs in which the employee has to balance their need for employment with their personal ethics. Perhaps even most.

The starting point should always be attempting to convince and persuade your seniors / employer through explanation and negotiation. There are plenty of good arguments for helping people set up tanks correctly in the first place and gaining loyal customers for life. But it's also a fact that people returning to replace fish who have died through inappropriate keeping, or to buy bigger, more expensive tanks as their beloved small fish outgrow their tiny cheap tanks, also pays.

If he continues to say no, you have a choice to continue to work there as he has told you to, or find a new job. No one should judge you either way. I personally would start quietly looking for alternatives and brushing up on your training and CV to give you options.

 

I don't blame him. It's tough out there, especially for a small business owner. I don't even want to think about the overhead costs. Considering the nature of the business, I think it's well enough that he allows the employees to at least inform/warn buyers. It's his store, his rules. If it bothers you that much, I'd look for different employment.

 

You have to do what's right for you and stand by your decisions. It's true you might not "get on" in the world if you have ethics you stick by and incompetent people will be chosen ahead of you. But your life has to make sense to you as you live with yourself 24 hours a day.

 

Here's the thing, my boss is not an ignorant man. He's been running this business for 15 years, along with an aquarium maintenance service, and a natural science museum just appointed him as Curator of Live Specimens. He can set up large tank systems, is well versed in hydroponics, and his personal specialty is corals.

Knowing these things, it seems strange that he'd advocate for putting large fish in tanks that are too small, even if only temporarily.

 

I wonder how many more sales he has made because of that one pleco sale? You sell a fish and it gets too big, the person returns it and then the store resells it at a higher price while not having to pay extra for the initial wholesale purchase of a larger fish or having to hold onto a fish while it grows. OR that pleco starts to grow and the other fish die because of it, the owner doesn't realize why and goes back to buy more and more fish. OR the owner realizes it but has gotten so attached to his fish that he wants to upgrade his tank for his new BFF and buys all of his fish supplies from the store.
Is he being unethical or is he being an amazingly smart businessman? Will some pleco die in the process? Sure but I'll bet those people come back and buy more! It's no wonder he's been in business for 15 years.

You need to do what you feel is right or what you are comfortable with. Don't just up and quit, keep the job while you look. Realize though that no job is perfect and leaving won't change it.

 

Heck of lot better the saying “sure that will work in a 10g”. Business is business unfortunately and I’m with Smee on this.

 

In my business you get on by being a yes man even if it is wrong. If you do the morally right thing you don't get chosen. You can make your own choices.

This is why we are making a mess of our planet.

The rich will move to Mars (or Elysium) and leave the rest of us on an overpopulated and ruined Earth.

 

In my business you get on by being a yes man even if it is wrong. If you do the morally right thing you don't get chosen. You can make your own choices.

This is why we are making a mess of our planet.

The rich will move to Mars (or Elysium) and leave the rest of us on an overpopulated and ruined Earth.

Sounds like my previous place of employment. I resigned before the stress killed me and started my own business 6 months ago. Less money so far, but the stress levels have dropped immensely. Unfortunately all the yes people become bosses, you don't even need to be qualified!