One of my angels has its mouth stuck open - what to do?

One of the altums, since a couple of days ago does not seem able to close his mouth. I was kind of hoping it would resolve without doing anything but is still the same. The first day I saw this it did eat some, but today it does not seem to be eating, otherwise it looks normal and is swimming around with the others. I have googled this and found a lot of posts, mostly saying to catch the fish and see if it has anything stuck in its mouth or throat. But I'm scared to do this, I am afraid I might damage the fish. But I might have to - any advice? what would I use to examine the mouth, and how would I hold the fish without dropping or hurting it?

 

The mouth might be damaged due to a lip lock battle. It's been quite a while since I kept Angels, but I believe they do occasionally fight in that manner.

 

SparkyJones any ideas love?

TClare I have never heard of this before, my first thought is catching him in a big net, which will give him a fright and may dislodge anything caught in his mouth, or if it has just got stuck open the fright from catching him may cause him to move his mouth and free it from being stuck open?

 

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The mouth might be damaged due to a lip lock battle. It's been quite a while since I kept Angels, but I believe they do occasionally fight in that manner.

I have never seen them fighting, just the occasional nip and chase, not much, they are still juveniles, I don't think that is the cause.

SparkyJones any ideas love?

TClare I have never heard of this before, my first thought is catching him in a big net, which will give him a fright and may dislodge anything caught in his mouth, or if it has just got stuck open the fright from catching him may cause him to move his mouth and free it from being stuck open?

Maybe I'll just try that to start with...

 

Kinda sounds like lockjaw. Haven't dealt with it myself, but from what i read, it seems like something that goes away or it doesn't. Really hope it goes away!

 

Wel as a quick update, I tried to do as Decoy suggested, bu also had ready some fine tweezers incase we could see anything in his mouth. First attempt - all of them dashed to the back amongst the Vallisneria on seeing the net. I waited until they relaxed and came to the front again and this time was able to catch him. I held him in the net and my husband had a look but couldn't see anything, funny thing was he actually closed his mouth when he was in the net out of the water. I have put him back and will have another look and report back when he emerges from the back again.

Well now he is staying on his own at the back of the tank, as far as I can see his mouth looks just the same.

 

Hi TClare.

Generally there's 3 causes for this.
1.obstruction.
2. Infection.
3. Injury/dislocation.

First thing you can do is to check for an obstruction and the first line of attack when you see this, because that's the most likely cause. #2 is the least likely cause. Get the fish out and look in its mouth with a magnifier and light. This will also help in determining if possibly #2 or #3 if it's not an obstruction.
1 and 3 are the most likely reason for this happening.

They get obstructed on occasion if any tankmates like corydoras or small fish or shrimp or small gravel. If they swallow a cory fry it can fin out and get stuck and die they won't be able to spit it or swallow it. They can get a piece of plant or a small rock or something like that jammed in there and can't swallow or spit it. They can also swallow fish fry tail first and the gills and dorsal jam in their throat, same kind of thing with shrimp and their horns. So if any tank mates and any possibility of unnoticed fry in there that they could eat its a safe bet to look in there really good and see if the mouth is clear all the way to the back.

Infection or swelling. Is the mouth an open space, is it closed up in there and signs of fungus or discoloration?

Injury, dislocation, hyperextension. This can happen, usually when they are ramming or wrestling for who's boss. They can, if spooked, run full steam and slam into an object mouth first also. If this, there's no sign of obstruction, no sign of swelling inside the mouth, and no discoloration or swelling inside the mouth, there might be external swelling on the lips, or an injury maybe to tip you off.
But if its injury/dislocation its painful to close the mouth and hold it closed and less painful to let it stay where it is sitting open.

Any of these will cause stress, and limit or stop the fishes ability or desire to eat.
If it's obstructed they will usually keep attempting to spit it out, gill flare and dart, until they are tired of trying to dislodge it.
If there's swelling inside they will usually hold it open and swim around to pass water over their gills, and be less likely to "puff" water and stay stationary.
If injury or dislocation or hyperextension, they will eat when they absolutely have to and hold it open unless they absolutely have to close it. They will usually isolate also because of the pain and not interact with the other fish much. Sometimes it will go back in place on its own when they relax and calm down and just relocate.

I don't think it's lockjaw as in tetanus. Fish do get it but it's more of a pond thing (even wild caught) and the fish can get paralyzed by the toxin, in an open or closed position but they can't close their mouth if it's locked open and they can't open their mouth if locked closed. It was mentioned he closed his mouth when he was out of the water, he wouldn't be able to do that if it were tetanus.
That can be ruled out.

If it's an obstruction you'd remove it with tweezers if it's an animal obstruction it will eventually decompose and they will then be able to spit it of you cant bring yourself to playing Operation with tweezers.
If it's an infection you'd treat it for the symptoms you can and hope it fixes it.
If swelling or even dislocation, you could try an epsom salt bath and see if that reduces swelling or relaxes the fish.

Unfortunately if it is a dislocation/ hyper extension the fish is too small to do any manual relocation, the bones are too fragile.
It will either correct itself of it just won't.

The fish can go a good while without eating though. It's possible to heal if broken and possible to relocate itself and the fish return to normal and start eating again, but if the fish doesn't eat for 10 days to 2 weeks, it's time to consider the fishes overall condition at that point and decide if you want to euthanize or hold out a little longer. Sometimes it doesn't fix itself and the fish can't eat and they will eventually starve to death, in that case euthanasia is the humane thing to do. You should know in 10-14 days if it's getting better at all or the fish is declining and not improving.

Hope this helps some. Sometimes you just kind of have to handle the fish in order to determine what the problem is. Sorry about that. Its what a veterinarian would do if you took the fish there.

 

Did he eat anything that may have got caught for a day or two, I once had an Oscar that believed it could swallow anything whole he took on a high BN once and it took a few days for it to go through eventually it digested and the rest went through him but his mouth had lock jaw for a good week at least.
I know Oscars are a bit less delicate than the angel but it might get better

 

Thanks for these replies. Since I put him back in the tank he stayed on his own at the back, mouth still open. I cannot see any sign of fungus, swelling of mouth or lips, or discolouration, it’s just open. But it did seem to close when I took him out. No Corydoras in the tank but there are some small tetras, which I did consider as a possibility. There are also otos but I think they are too big for him to even try to swallow. A small piece of gravel or plant are possibilities. They are still young and I have never seen any fighting between them, I suppose it’s possible he could have hurt himself against the glass if he got a shock or was chased or something, though I haven’t been aware of anything like that happening. I think it might be best if I leave it for a few days and see if there’s any improvement, and later decide whether to take him out and have a closer look. I don’t really want to keep stressing him if possible.

 

TClare Hi, I had a feeling he would close his mouth when you took him out of the tank, and in that respect I think you should (as you said above) just wait a bit and see if it rights itself, because if he was able to close his mouth then the problem should not be permanent.. I am glad you tried though, please keep us updated..
SparkyJones Thank you for replying with all that information!

 

Oh no , Is this one of your expensive angels ?
If it was able to close its mouth when you took it out it cant be a broken jaw , which is good news. it could be lock jaw, which will hopefully resolve on its own.

It doesn’t sound like an obstruction if you can’t see anything lodged.

unless it’s spooked and hit the glass I’m hopeful this fish can recover. It’s a good sign there’s no fungus or discolouration, but that could point to an injury of another type. Has it eaten today ?

 

I don’t think there is much change today, maybe it’s a little less wide open, not sure, I tried to take some photos, but not planning on catching him again yet.




He is swimming around, sometimes with the others, sometimes alone. He is not eating. His breathing seems harder with more gill movement.

 

He is stunning Clare!
I am a bit stumped on this now, his breathing would be harder because his mouth open is pushing his gills back I think.. Might pay to ask an expert, perhaps a vet, just a phone call to their office to start with?

 

He is stunning Clare!
I am a bit stumped on this now, his breathing would be harder because his mouth open is pushing his gills back I think.. Might pay to ask an expert, perhaps a vet, just a phone call to their office to start with?

No vets here know anything about fish I’m afraid. My vet, who I am good friends with, and trust a lot when it comes to dogs, once phoned me for advice when someone brought in a flowerhorn with HITH.

 

Okay, well that's out of the plan then.. Leave it with me, I have a few ideas, I'll get back to you later

 

Does it appear to have some damage on the head too or is that a natural colour patch ? I wonder if they’ve been sparring and that’s caused the injury . They are stunning angels !

 

He does have a small spot on his head. I watch them every day and have never seen any lip locking or serious fighting. Occasionally they nip and chase a little, but usually go round to gather in a group. I have once or twice seen the Laetacaras chase one of them if it gets too close, if it was a particularly hard chase maybe he could have knocked himself on the glass or on some wood or something. I just don't know. Lights are not on yet, that tank is in the room we use during the evening and is in a different time zone to my other tanks - lights come on at 2.00pm and stay on until about 9.00pm, so I will report back later.

 

No change today.

 

Hey, I thought I would be able to find out what is wrong with your Angel on a FB page I am on but they need to know all these questions I can't answer about your fish and tank, so that was a fail..
My next approach would be to hospitalise him & treat him with aquarium salt perhaps, this will rule out any bacterial and fungal infections, he could have a gill infection causing him to hold his mouth open?
This is just my thoughts, I have been racking my brain on this.
TClare

 

Hey, I thought I would be able to find out what is wrong with your Angel on a FB page I am on but they need to know all these questions I can't answer about your fish and tank, so that was a fail..
My next approach would be to hospitalise him & treat him with aquarium salt perhaps, this will rule out any bacterial and fungal infections, he could have a gill infection causing him to hold his mouth open?
This is just my thoughts, I have been racking my brain on this.
TClare

Thanks, I could try that, but a bit worried that it would stress him more. I can’t see any redness or swelling or fungus that would indicate an infection, but it could be more internal I suppose. As for the tank it measures 160 x 60 x 60cm (576l or about 152 gallons I think).it is planted and is filtered with a canister filter and two top filters. Temperature is about 28C. Nitrates 1-5. GH 1-2, KH 0-1 pH about 6.6. There are 5 altums, 3 Laetacaras some tetras, otocinclus and a small pleco.

 

Salt is apparently good for stressed fish, it calms them... Might pay to do a little research on salt and sick or injured fish.. Thanks for the tank details, I'll see what I can do, no promises.
A salt bath might be an option, this way he goes back into the tank with the others after the bath.. Less stress than being isolated in a hospital tank. Could be an option, and with using salt you can rule out any infections if there is no change in his condition after use.
I am leaning towards it being an injury, if so the salt would hopefully heal any damage caused to his jaw perhaps. Its a long shot and there could be other ways to fix this but from what I have read the outcome does not look good for him if it does not come good soon.