Omaha mall shooting

mlinden84
  • #1
To anyone directly or indirectly involved with the Omaha mall shooting, my thoughts are with you. What a horrible and senseless act.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #2
What an evil and selfish thing to do. Not content to kill himself, he had to steal the lives of others and bring pain & suffering to all those families.
 
Oblivion
  • #3
The fact that he left the note saying, "Now I'll be famous..." infuriates me
 
COBettaCouple
  • #4
yea.. perhaps a fitting thing to do would be to erase any records that he ever existed. "infamous", "reviled", "detested" maybe, but not "famous".
 
mlinden84
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
I am praying for everyone that was killed, Robert Hawkins included. His life was cut short as well. He'll have his place on Judgement Day, as will the rest. Meanwhile, I mourn the senseless deaths of the nine people who were involved.
 
swords3711
  • #6
yes it is very strange
the shooter was a dropout from papio lv
I go to papio lv south not 5mI from there
if anyone has any questions just ask me and I will be happy to answer them
we just can't believe it would happen here
we have shootings in the north part of omaha quite frequently but this is more west O which is quite strange.
We never have violence happen on this part of town
 
swords3711
  • #7
The fact that he left the note saying, "Now I'll be famous..." infuriates me

that is just sickening
although with how the media is, its true
 
sirdarksol
  • #8
Ugh... Such a screwed up kid. I love that the child services guy is quick to say that they had no part in it, pointing out that the kid was in a group home. I know a guy who worked in a group home for years until this past January, and those are not good places for troubled kids.
I am appalled at the violence, but as I learn more about humanity as well as my own self, I find it harder and harder to deplore any person, no matter their actions (there are still a few exceptions, such as terrorist leaders like Bin Laden and Bush). As mlinden said, judgment will be rendered, and it's not really my place to second-guess that judgment.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #9
yea, it seems like the media sits around hoping for another shooting or something to put on.

Here in Denver, we're near the school shooting that seemed to start this rash of copy-cat "poor me, i've got it so bad, i'm going to murder innocent people and be famous" shootings. A friend of Stacy's family just graduated from Columbine and right next to the school is a nice public park for having picnics, etc. It's so sad that there are people like that.

that is just sickening
although with how the media is, its true
 
swords3711
  • #10
well u know it is messed up how people think this day in age
"it's not really my place to second-guess that judgment." that's where this world goes wrong
then how will people know between right and wrong

if he was suffering from depression, there's something called therapy
maybe he should have gotten get some common sense and try it

oh ya its really a good idea to go into a mall during such a happy time of year and shoot 8 random people for the heck of it
I could see how he could get confused
that's a load of !

Now we'll here about how this could have been prevented
no matter where anyone points the'ir figers they all know deep down that Hawkins was the cause of it all
get a sense of decency and get help if u need it
hopefully this won't happen again...who am I kidding this will happen again and again and again and again and again
this will never stop
this is how this time is
it makes me sick to see what the generation I am entering is coming to
I hope this all ends, but it won't
life will go on and more of this will keep happening
as much as I hate to say it...we all know
the question is...what do we do now
just think about it
 
swords3711
  • #11
yea, it seems like the media sits around hoping for another shooting or something to put on.

Here in Denver, we're near the school shooting that seemed to start this rash of copy-cat "poor me, i've got it so bad, i'm going to murder innocent people and be famous" shootings. A friend of Stacy's family just graduated from Columbine and right next to the school is a nice public park for having picnics, etc. It's so sad that there are people like that.

in grade school we based everything we had on preventing another colombine
 
sirdarksol
  • #12
Saying that the individual is the only source of a problem is a negative answer. It is the opposite end of the pendulum from "his mommy and daddy beat him so he didn't know he was doing bad." Nothing is black or white in this world. It's grey. The kid was screwed up. There was obviously something wrong with him. The fact that he didn't kill his ex girlfriend, his boss, and then himself shows that he was lashing out for the sake of lashing out rather than just exacting revenge (note that I'm not condoning revenge, just making a distinction between a killing with motive vs random murder). But society also knew something was wrong with him. The Child Services employee's response of "we spent $265,000 'fixing' him" shows that we are taking the wrong tactic with people like this. You can't throw money, drugs, and group homes at problems like this to make them go away.
The difference between myself and this kid is that my parents paid attention to me, nothing more. If my parents hadn't been as involved in my life as they were, if they had gone through a divorce, or something like that, I could have ended up doing something horrible to my school, because I was treated like garbage. But I had support in one aspect of my life, at home. I've grown a lot since then, and I know how messed up my mind was, and I'm not the same person anymore. Group homes are not support, they're jail for people to young to go to jail. They're ways for parents to get rid of kids that they don't want to deal with.
Columbine was not the first issue like this, it was just the first time that it happened in a middle class school and a large number of people got injured. This will not be the last time that this happens, and it will keep happening with greater frequency until we, as a society, recognize that we have a part to play in it. There is a reason that different cultures have different rates of incidents like this. In Japan for example, it's almost unheard of for a person to go on a killing spree like this, but suicide rates are higher (partly due to the fact that suicide was, in the not-to-distant past, an acceptable method to end personal pain and dishonor).
Yes, the person who perpetrates such horrible acts definitely holds accountability for his or her actions, but so does the society that saw that person's plight and did not do everything necessary to deal with it.
 
swords3711
  • #13
well this is true, but why taking it out on complete strangers
I am against suicide but in all ways, its better than murder
it just makes me mad every time I hear about it and I feel like I'm about to explode just wanting to unload
just wishing I could have been there to stop it
just wish there was some way to go back in time
 
sirdarksol
  • #14
Taking it out on random strangers is part of the reason that society shares the blame. Murder with motive (woman catches her husband cheating, kills him and the other woman, for example) may happen with little or no external warning.
This kind of slaughter, on the other hand, requires such a screwed up mind that there is some sort of warning (in fact, the article states that there was such a warning).
You say that you want to explode and that you wish you had been there to stop it, presumably by killing the kid. This is a response that makes sense in the human mind. Kill the source of pain to the self or to other members of the race. Now try and imagine if your brain lacked a method of selecting an "appropriate" target for your anger. This may have a chemical source (either from drugs or just from a screwed up internal chemistry) or it might have a social source (which I'm guessing is at least partly the case here. Not much is said about it, but if you read between the lines, you can guess that the kid didn't have a good home life even before he ended up in a group home).
Like I said, I'm not saying the kid isn't responsible for his actions, but neither is society innocent. It's normal to want to direct your anger at the perpetrator of such violence. To admit that society has some fault is basically to admit that you have some fault, even if you live across the country from the kid and have never met or heard of him, any of his family, or any of his friends. It's hard to admit one's own fault, and so I understand this. However, like I said, this will continue to get worse until we start taking some responsibility for the troubled members of our society. Heck, even as I'm writing this, I'm seeing on the news that there was a drive by shooting in one of the more peaceful suburbs of the Twin Cities this evening. Kid was shot right outside his school.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #15
I think that depression and things like that are more acted-out towards self.. mowing down innocent strangers with an automatic weapon shows more than depression was going on inside his head. it was planned random-murder ("now I'll be famous") and that part is on him. nobody made him do it, he chose to. everyone makes choices, he made his and unfortunately other people are dead or mourning tonight because of it.
 
mlinden84
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
I was just trying to make the point that people can lead crappy lives, but that doesn't mean they all go around shooting people.
 
armadillo
  • #17
Actually you're making a very interesting point, Dave. I've heard something VERY interesting about the biochemical side of depression lately.

Think of serotonin (our happy hormones, the ones that are released when we exercise or are exposed to sunlight). These relax us. They also desensitize our the neural receptors associated with the feeling of guilt and empathy.

Some a-type, overly ambitious people unnecessarily took anti-depressants in order to become more performant at work. They did so although there were not suffering from depression. After a while, these people were found to show atypical psychopathic behaviours (psychopathic in the sense of lacking in guilt and empathy) such as criminal behaviour including violence, dishonesty and fraud.

On the other end of the serotonin spectrum, people severely lacking in serotonins (clinically depressed) will have an acute sense of guilt and empathy (which is why a lot of depressed people are actually great listeners).

Oh, and I've heard something else that's interesting: pregnant people have that really happy phase (around the 3rd month? not sure). You know? That phase during which the husband is all: honey you're glowing. Anyways, that phase is associated with high levels of serotonin which themselves are associated with feelings of nausea in high doses - morning sickness! And this is why antidepressants give nausea at the beginning of the treatment.

I loooooove endocrinology!
 
armadillo
  • #18
And do you know what the sad thing is? Nobody ever remember their names. Why don't they know that they will be denied the fame they were desperate enough to get by doing such atrocious acts? People remember the events, but not the name of the perpetrators. And rightly so.
I think that depression and things like that are more acted-out towards self.. mowing down innocent strangers with an automatic weapon shows more than depression was going on inside his head. it was planned random-murder ("now I'll be famous") and that part is on him. nobody made him do it, he chose to. everyone makes choices, he made his and unfortunately other people are dead or mourning tonight because of it.
 
mlinden84
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
And do you know what the sad thing is? Nobody ever remember their names. Why don't they know that they will be denied the fame they were desperate enough to get by doing such atrocious acts? People remember the events, but not the name of the perpetrators. And rightly so.

So very true. Think of the Virgina Tech shooting... anyone remember his name?
 
armadillo
  • #20
No. And I definitely don't remember the names of the Columbine ones either.
 
Sabi
  • #21
Another one! This is so terrible!
It true that its generally those that have serious problems are to blame for these shootings etc.
 
MagpieTear
  • #22
I know (via the interlink and our shared hobby of motorcycles) one of the first police on the scene. His brief description of the day was disturbing to say the least. Honestly, as I read his account, all I could think of was about a situation I had in the service. **** is wrong with people that Christmas shoppers have to walk away with the same memories I have from guerrilla warfare in Pakistan? The nightmares, the smell of gunpowder, sweat, pee, and that odd metallic copper smell. The shadows that move past you as you're hiding, praying that no one noticed you. It infuriates me that the media is giving this waste so much air time, fulfilling his desire of fame, and ignoring the men, women and children who left the house with no more vile intent than buying a fruitcake or a snowglobe.

I've been a cop for twenty years, but nothing could have prepared me for what I experienced yesterday afternoon.

Myself and two of my officers were first to arrive at Von Maur. It was surreal.

Cordite hanging in the air.

Blood, bodies, and empties from the suspect's rifle everywhere you looked.

People frozen and cowering under displays and in fitting rooms.

Abandoned baby strollers, ladies' handbags, dropped cups of coffee and Christmas shopping bags littering the floor throughout the mall.

Alarms shrieking from speakers in the ceiling, "Emergency! Depart the mall immediately!"

Christmas music playing in the background.

And all the while, you're searching, guns at the ready, certain the bad guy is going to pop up from a clothing rack and kill one of you before your buddies can react and fight back.

Scan, drive forward a short distance with your fire team, pray. Repeat.

For now, know that I'm flattered you thought of me and dropped me a line. I will write more when I have time, I'm back to work after about three hours of broken sleep...
Take a few moments, pray to your Gods of choice that the innocents who survived will sleep well tonight, and those this coward took from us are at peace.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #23
It makes you wonder sometimes.. who is more vile? The ones who commit these atrocities or the twisted news media that LOVES when they happen?
 
sirdarksol
  • #24
It makes you wonder sometimes.. who is more vile? The ones who commit these atrocities or the twisted news media that LOVES when they happen?

Don't forget the viewers who eat the stuff up. If there was a negative public response when the news overplayed something like this, it wouldn't happen. Nearly all of us, however, are guilty of feeding into the frenzy. It's the whole train-wreck cliche.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #25
it's like tv shows, the news doesn't really care if we watch or not - they just care about that tiny sampling of people who make up the ridiculous ratings system that advertisers are stupid enough to be swayed by.

I don't watch the news. They're a bunch of vile, lying, hypocritical parasites that enjoy telling the sheep what to think and say "oh this is horrible".. "let's watch it again! >".
 
sirdarksol
  • #26
Doesn't have to be TV shows. It can be newspapers or online accounts. You've heard about it, so you stopped and read, heard, or watched about it. That's how pervasive this obsession with violence and tragedy and death is. When the 35W bridge collapsed, I couldn't watch TV around here for a few days, because all of the shows that I watch were pre-empted for news coverage. I couldn't pick up a newspaper because every section had something regarding it. Thank goodness for my iPod, because it was nonstop on the radio. Even when I went online to national and even international news, there were pages about it.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #27
actually, i've not read anything about it except this thread. I hate seeing the endless repetition of the news gives us.. i'd rather watch a DVD or a sports event, or maybe turn on food network.. the channels with news are skipped on our channel surf. ;D
 
paswed
  • #28
As I read these post it makes me kind of mad because my son killed his self last year. there where warning signings but as people we are so busy taking care of our wants and needs we do not pay attention to anything else. We took for granted he was ok but he was 200 miles away form home with a new baby and no job. He tried to kill every one but the gun jammed when he tried to kill the baby and his girl friend. He had been in and out of group homes because his mother was having trouble. I have seen what it is like and he use to talk about it. This Christmas we will spend thousand of dollars on our family members not once will we think about those kids living on the street or in frostier care. So it is everyone fault because if those people get the help they need this type of things would not happen. But they do not because of money and know one has the time to help these people ,we all wait for someone else to do it. Even me I am at fault but since I lost me son I make the time because I did not have to lose my step son if someone or anyone would have of took the time to help him or just listen to him , it would not have happen . Be aware of the kids in your life it may save a life down the road or stop a mass shooting in the future.
 
guppiemaster892
  • #29
I am sick of it. He said he would be famous. That's just . I saw the tapes on the news and the photos in the newspaper. And the fact is that he used a AK-47 SKS, that just makes me sick. Some kid has to kill 8 inecent people just cause he had his own problems. I am afraid to go to a mall know. The cops said it was very scary when they entered the south enterence. They said there was blood everywhere. I also heard some guy threatend a girl because she said it was wrong.
 
armadillo
  • #30
Paswed, please accept my deepest condoleances on the loss of your son. Loosing a child is a pain noone should have to go through. I am so sorry that you have the added pain of loosing someone in violent circumstances.

You make a very strong point raising our awareness to the other side of the story. I know it is very little consolation, but like you said, living through this has transformed you as a person and opened your eyes to those in need. Your message is truely inspiring.

Please have all my thoughts of strength and support.

Laure-Anne
As I read these post it makes me kind of mad because my son killed his self last year. there where warning signings but as people we are so busy taking care of our wants and needs we do not pay attention to anything else. We took for granted he was ok but he was 200 miles away form home with a new baby and no job. He tried to kill every one but the gun jammed when he tried to kill the baby and his girl friend. He had been in and out of group homes because his mother was having trouble. I have seen what it is like and he use to talk about it. This Christmas we will spend thousand of dollars on our family members not once will we think about those kids living on the street or in frostier care. So it is everyone fault because if those people get the help they need this type of things would not happen. But they do not because of money and know one has the time to help these people ,we all wait for someone else to do it. Even me I am at fault but since I lost me son I make the time because I did not have to lose my step son if someone or anyone would have of took the time to help him or just listen to him , it would not have happen . Be aware of the kids in your life it may save a life down the road or stop a mass shooting in the future.
 
paswed
  • #31
Thanks I hope no one has to pick out their child tombstone for his 21 birthday I just wish poeple would see that these people need help and our health care system makes it really hard for that to happen so it leads to things like these shooting where a lot of people have to die
 
paswed
  • #32
I ask that every one take a look around this holiday season and see if it is a child or adult that could use a act of kindness your act of kindness could save a life in the furture
 
COBettaCouple
  • #33
The health care industry is a cold-hearted business that really doesn't care one bit about anything except making all the money they can as they destroy millions of lives. Certainly the American citizens with mental illness troubles deserve at the least, the amount of help that illegals get. One of the most ridiculous things about this country that spends so much on those who aren't US citizens is the way that US citizens don't seem to matter to our own government. I'm sick of seeing US citizens at the back of the line with the US government. But I'm getting . The premeditation of what he did, the lethalness of the weapon and viciousness of the murdering rampage of total strangers along with his note declaring his upcoming fame would indicate that violent sociopathic ideations were the cause of this tragedy, more than the depression issues.
 
armadillo
  • #34
Indeed, but these are both mental illnesses which should have received care and treatment. Thank you for reminding us that, as twisted as his act was, this person was also a sick person, Paswed.
 
Chief_waterchanger
  • #35
How old was he? I heard a report that he got the gun from his mother's home? If that is the case and it was her fault for leaving it unsecured she should be charged as an accomplice to 8 counts of premeditated murder. I am all for people owning guns, would love to own them oneday myself, but with the owning of a deadly weapon comes the deadly responsibility. If your weapon kills someone because it was left unsecured at any time, you should be liable for it.
 
sirdarksol
  • #36
AK-47 from his stepfather. They are currently looking into whether or not the AK was legally owned or not.
 
Allie
  • #37
Actually you're making a very interesting point, Dave. I've heard something VERY interesting about the biochemical side of depression lately.

Think of serotonin (our happy hormones, the ones that are released when we exercise or are exposed to sunlight). These relax us. They also desensitize our the neural receptors associated with the feeling of guilt and empathy.

Some a-type, overly ambitious people unnecessarily took anti-depressants in order to become more performant at work. They did so although there were not suffering from depression. After a while, these people were found to show atypical psychopathic behaviours (psychopathic in the sense of lacking in guilt and empathy) such as criminal behaviour including violence, dishonesty and fraud.

On the other end of the serotonin spectrum, people severely lacking in serotonins (clinically depressed) will have an acute sense of guilt and empathy (which is why a lot of depressed people are actually great listeners).

Oh, and I've heard something else that's interesting: pregnant people have that really happy phase (around the 3rd month? not sure). You know? That phase during which the husband is all: honey you're glowing. Anyways, that phase is associated with high levels of serotonin which themselves are associated with feelings of nausea in high doses - morning sickness! And this is why antidepressants give nausea at the beginning of the treatment.

I loooooove endocrinology!
I have a major mood disorder. I've been dealing with it since I was a teen. Your impulse control is really hard to keep even when you are young. When I was a teen I beat up my brother a lot for no reason. My serotonin level was out of wack.
Since I have been on the proper meds my mood swings are less intense. I have been on the wrong meds and my ability to get angry was so much faster. You have to be patient to find the right combo of meds for you, it took me 10 years to find the right ones.
A lot of the drugs antI anxiety/depression have warning for teens...b/c the brain is still developing the drugs can harm them or make them worse feeling, even suicidal. It took me a long time to get properly diagnosed too.
The main thing is that you have someone you can count on when you are feeling out of wack. My parents were very supportive and still are.

I can see how someone could go off but it doesn't make it right.
 
sirdarksol
  • #38
I can see how someone could go off but it doesn't make it right.

Very well said.
 
COBettaCouple
  • #39
well, I didn't have to hear about it on the news, but we've had some shootings here this weekend. First, early sunday am, the guy shot 4 people, killing 2 at a training center for young missionaries (the couple running the place are friends and the training center is a few miles from our church. Then he headed south of Denver to a big church in Colorado Springs that has something like 14,000 members and shot more people. I think he had over 1,000 rounds of ammo so he was definitely out to kill a lot of people.
 
sirdarksol
  • #40
Yeah, those kids were from Minnesota that he killed. He asked for a place to stay at that mission, I guess, and opened fire when they told him no.
 

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