Ok I lost 2 in 24hr period I am sick of this!

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Fish Monster

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Ok well I lost a fish who had been clamping his fins and not eating for a little over a week, I set up a 14 gallon hosp tank with aqurium salt to little to late I am afraid. Then My red marb which looked fine at a half past midnight was washed out and pale with a bloted tummy area, which to me looked like a injury of some type I am not sure. Well he died with in 8 hours from looking great and eating to instant deah 8 hours latter. This is why I think it was an injury becuse he looked great rite before this and if it was internal I do not think it would have worked this fast do you. Well also here is the thing i wanted to point out I bought both of these fish from the lFS only two week ago and they were my most recent additons to the tank. So here is the thing I am tired of the LFS and I would like to give some one a shot who you all trust and know and the fish can not cost me a million bucks a fish you know? I mean I do want qulity but not like trophy qulity if that make sense basically good healthy fish! not these sick ones I have been getting. The only thing is I know the shipping will kill me I just know it will so I will have to save up for a couple of weeks fisrt. I want 2 - 3 decent discus that wont nesisarly break my bank. also it dosnt not matter really what they are I have left a blur diamond a cobalt both are looking in great shape and I have a flchen but I think there may be something wrong with him because it almost looks like his skin is pealling but with out the loose skin I know this makes no sense but when you look at him from the side it looks like he may have pealed some skin but theres no loose skin or nothing I wonder if this is like extra mucus or soemthing or totally normal he eats and everything I am just not sure and I can not get a good enough picture of the fish for you to see this.

Myw ater is 6.5ph 0 nitrites 0 amonia and 5 gh i do daily 40% water changes with tetra water conditioner with bio extract so I do not chek for nitrates because I do a lot of water changes I need advice big time!!
 

blkdeath75

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Daily 40% changes seems a bit much. How do you keep your pH so low? Mine is 8.0 out of the tap. Changing that much water everyday without checking for Nitrates may be overkill. It would cause a lot of stress to your fish and without looking to see if your Nitrates are normal(under 20ppm I believe is good) you could be doing mega changes when not needed.

Just my opinion.
 
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Fish Monster

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I hear about people in here all the time doing daly water changes some even do 100% water changes, I never hear of anyone doing to many if anythuing not enough.

I use to do just 40% 3 times a week and a lot of people told me to bump it up and do more for my discus so thats what I did.

I read some where a guy does 100% waterchange everyday for his discus and they are doing great, I thought the samething you did untill I read everyone telling me that they are a good thing.

I also read that water changes are not stresful to the fish either, in any case I was thinking about cuting them down to 40 - 50% every other day rather than daily.
You will see here before to long some one will chime in and say how they do massive water changes everyday and there discus are huge and healthy so I dont know whats rite at this point, I just think I need to find a middle ground in I can.
 
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Fish Monster

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looks like skin peeling off one of my discus

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I had lost two fish over the holiday weekend looks ike two seperat issues one was sick whe I bought it I think and the other I feel had an injury but I am not usre.

Anyway I have three left two of which look and act fine. the third is begun to clamp his fins and his skin looks like it is pealing. I have a 14 gallon qt/hossp tank set up with aqurium salt in it rite now API only 3 table spoons in it rite now. my question do I need to qt all three only the sick one? and what do I do follow the directions for a salt bath and for how long untill its cleared up or longer and what do I put in the qt tank anything just clear clean water from the main tank? and what should I do with the main tank anything? Like i said two gone 3 left and two are ok but the third is skin pealing I need help I really do not want to loose any more fish help

Oh and what causes this? I am always particular about my water I mean I do daily 40 - 50% water changes a day with dechlor
my water is ph 6.5 temp is 85f 0 nitrites 0 amonia 5 gh and I am not sure about the nitrates becuase I do frequent water changes I usally do not test for those oh and it is a 55 gallon BB been running 4 months and is fully cyled

So do I need to do a PP bath whatever that is a salt bath or just do water changes or something else altogether?????
 

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Fish Monster said:
I hear about people in here all the time doing daly water changes some even do 100% water changes, I never hear of anyone doing to many if anythuing not enough.

I use to do just 40% 3 times a week and a lot of people told me to bump it up and do more for my discus so thats what I did.
Unless you're having difficulty cycling a tank or experience an ammonia spike, it is not necessary (or healthy for your fish) to do so many water changes.

It may be that you read something about doing water changes more often when you first set your tank up 3 months ago but, of course, as your tank and fish settle in, the requirements would be less.

blkdeath gave you solid info.

I don't follow your logic for lack of doing nitrate readings. And I certainly don't agree with it. When you have a problem with your tank, as you are now, one of the first things people will ask for are your ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte readings. All numbers give us vital information and allow us to help you that much more quickly.

So, I'm not sure about your references to "people in here" and "I read somewhere" but let's start you off on a clean slate.

When was the last water change? If more than 24 hours ago, can you please do readings and get all of your numbers for us?

Thanks!
 

Meenu

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Are you watching pH and water temperature when you do your changes?
 

LyndaB

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You should ask one of the mods to blend this post in with your other thread, to which you've already received responses. If it's all together, you're more likely to get consistent instruction and help!
 

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Hello FishMonster,

I merged your threads for you. I think it will be a lot less confusing to other members.

Thanks!
Ken
 

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oh no fishmonster....im also sorry for the losses and sickness

I do agree with others....over cleaning IMO is almost as bad as under....especially if your tap water(or whatever water source you are using) is much different in ph than your tank...buffers arent good for most fish, as its too fast and not stable .....you only need daily changes when cycling and you have ammonia/nitrites or high nitrates...although discus are more picky, i still dont think daily is needed....ive also read from others, that you get what you pay for in the discus world....most that you get in your LFS, are much harder to keep hardy and looking nice where as spending more from local/reputable breeders, is a much better success rate....at this point, id do a test of the nitrates and just go on what that is telling you...let the tank be for at least a week to settle down...and read some of matts(slug) threads about his discus care....you can do a search for them in the search bar....again im sorry for the issues you are having and hope things look up soon!
 
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Fish Monster

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Meenu said:
Are you watching pH and water temperature when you do your changes?
wellthats the thing and I had brought this up before my ph from the tap is 7.0 tank ph is 6.5 I was told from Slug I believe that he feels it would not be nesisary for me to age the watwr as an increase in ph is not as stressful or hard on the fish as a drop, that and only doing 40% water change with the 7.0ph added to the 6.5ph what would that raise it to any way 6.7ph or something like this? Slug tells me he fills straight from the tap all the time so I trust what he is doing he has been sucseful thus far with this method. My temp in the tank is a solid 85f so when I do my water changes I almost alwyas make sure it is exactly the same may a half a degree one way or the other. And I know for a fact in recent days I have been told that some do water changes daily 40 -50 and sometimes even 100% water changes reqularly.

I remember asking the question about will this not do harm in terms of runing my bacteria colonies and so forth and I was told that it will not and that it is good for the fish to have so many water changes hence the reason why I increased them.

I use to do 40% - 50% water changes every other day before that, trust me if thats good enough thats fine with me its not like I want to change the water everyday I just was doing what I read, I can not remeber who exactly said what and when as I would have to look back thru all the threads and my posting to find out.

But now I would much rather move forward and try and figure out whats going on here with my flachen discus and what looks like skin peeling even though there is no skin actually peeling at least I do not think so it does resemble that thoguh. I am not sure what to do at this point I have a hossp tank with heater but it's not cycled and I have two others in the main tank with flachen that look and act fine and I would hate for this to pass on to them yet.

so what do you think this sounds like what should I do? salt dip/bath qt for all three I mean there altogether in the tank now so I dont see much point in that qt the "sick" one and do what? my reading are still 6.5ph 85f 0 amonia 0 nitrites and I do not have nitrate kit but my thinking was if the nitrites and amonia are at 0 and Iam doing so many frequesnt water changes which is a method for eliminateing nitrate and if I did have a nitrate spike wouldnt water chnges correct this any way? that they would be very low any way. At any rate I do not have the nitrate kit but based off the other numbers hopefully someone can tell something from that oh and the gh is 5

any help would be greatly apreciated at this point, so I know i need to test for nitrates but I have done tons of other tests and I almost always chek for these parameters before and after every water change so I have not idea how this happend or what it is or how to fix it, please help?
 

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Hello FishMonster,

I hate that you're having to go through this. I've been there and it wasn't fun. I lost 15 Discus after a 3 day power outage, years ago and I just gave up on trying to keep them. I don't know how Slug does it but his are just amazing.

See if this link helps you any with the flaking skin:
Fish Skin Disorders

Best wishes!
Ken
 

ifixoldhouses

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They need 50% w/c daily or more when they are growing out. When they are adults you can get by with less, alot of people on Simply Discus change 100%daily. The reason being is, the food is so messy you want perfectly clean water, and it takes 50% to vacuum all the debris out, unless you have gravel then you just can't see the debris.
 
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Fish Monster

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Well I know they are not adults, they are not exactly babies but there not fully grown yet, I am guessing they are now 3.5 4 inches maybe a tad bigger they really shot up like weeds probably due to the feedings and water change.

But heres the question now what do I do about the skin problem just let the tank sit and see what happens? should I do my 40% water change every other day and let the tank sit for a week as sugested? after the week is up like by Sunday go ahead and just start to do 40% water changes every other day or something like that. Honestly I did not have really any problems untill I started to do the daily water changes I was doing 40 % every other day or like 3 times a week and everything was fine maybe I should go back to that but if I do that how do I clean up the left over blood worms just clean them up daily really quick maybe only like 5 or 10 gallons? worth
 

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LyndaB said:
Unless you're having difficulty cycling a tank or experience an ammonia spike, it is not necessary (or healthy for your fish) to do so many water changes.

It may be that you read something about doing water changes more often when you first set your tank up 3 months ago but, of course, as your tank and fish settle in, the requirements would be less.

blkdeath gave you solid info.

I don't follow your logic for lack of doing nitrate readings. And I certainly don't agree with it. When you have a problem with your tank, as you are now, one of the first things people will ask for are your ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte readings. All numbers give us vital information and allow us to help you that much more quickly.

So, I'm not sure about your references to "people in here" and "I read somewhere" but let's start you off on a clean slate.

When was the last water change? If more than 24 hours ago, can you please do readings and get all of your numbers for us?

Thanks!
IMO it is necessary and good for the health of the fish to do daily water changes when growing out baby discus. I've tried it with 3x weekly 50% changes and mine stunted anyway... it will be 50% daily for me in a barebottom tank if I ever try them again. Once they grow out and get some size on them, they can be moved into a planted tank with a less frequent maintenance schedule (still 1-2x weekly).

Fish Monster, I'm thinking that one or more of your fish were probably sick when you got them. Actual physical manifestation of symptoms can take some time, and by the time you realize what's going on it's often too late. Like Slug has said, the best way to get healthy discus is to buy directly from breeders rather than the LFSs. Most LFSs are getting in poor quality stock from their wholesalers, and these are the fish that tend to be sick and stressed, and probably stunted to some degree, before you even get them. As a retailer, I know I would not trust any of the wholesalers to send me nice discus, even though they send me awesome fish for other species. I'm sorry to hear about the losses of your fish and I really hope things start looking up. I wish I had some advice for getting your fish healthy right now but unfortunately I don't know what to tell you.
 

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Do NOT do a salt dip bath unless you know what the problem is!!!...that procedure is a last chance attempt..and the fish should be relatively healthy..not a general cure by any means. I've done it before it is not nice.
 

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Gwynnbrook farms is an excellent discus breeder. They are/were having a sale. You are in York , Pa and they are outside of Baltimore, MD. Go on their site...call them, and you can drive down to Balt. and pickout your fish. You are under 2 hours away from them.

Wait and be sure the other Discus are well and your tank is not contaminated from the LFS fish.

discushatchery.com or search for gwynnbrook farms. It is run by Peter Thode and they have been raising and selling discus forever....all sizes.
 

ifixoldhouses

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TedsTank said:
Gwynnbrook farms is an excellent discus breeder. They are/were having a sale. You are in York , Pa and they are outside of Baltimore, MD. Go on their site...call them, and you can drive down to Balt. and pickout your fish. You are under 2 hours away from them.

Wait and be sure the other Discus are well and your tank is not contaminated from the LFS fish.

discushatchery.com or search for gwynnbrook farms. It is run by Peter Thode and they have been raising and selling discus forever....all sizes.
If your going to goto Baltimore noone has better Discus than Discus Hans, or so I've heard, and seen alot of his pictures
 

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harpua2002 said:
IMO it is necessary and good for the health of the fish to do daily water changes when growing out baby discus. I've tried it with 3x weekly 50% changes and mine stunted anyway... it will be 50% daily for me in a barebottom tank if I ever try them again. Once they grow out and get some size on them, they can be moved into a planted tank with a less frequent maintenance schedule (still 1-2x weekly).
I stand very corrected on the needs of discus..... thank you and others for teaching me today.

I have to say, though, that I'm very glad that I have not been attracted to keeping that species. I don't think I'd have the time it obviously takes to keep them healthy and happy. Bless those of you that do.
 
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Fish Monster

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harpua2002 said:
IMO it is necessary and good for the health of the fish to do daily water changes when growing out baby discus. I've tried it with 3x weekly 50% changes and mine stunted anyway... it will be 50% daily for me in a barebottom tank if I ever try them again. Once they grow out and get some size on them, they can be moved into a planted tank with a less frequent maintenance schedule (still 1-2x weekly).

Fish Monster, I'm thinking that one or more of your fish were probably sick when you got them. Actual physical manifestation of symptoms can take some time, and by the time you realize what's going on it's often too late. Like Slug has said, the best way to get healthy discus is to buy directly from breeders rather than the LFSs. Most LFSs are getting in poor quality stock from their wholesalers, and these are the fish that tend to be sick and stressed, and probably stunted to some degree, before you even get them. As a retailer, I know I would not trust any of the wholesalers to send me nice discus, even though they send me awesome fish for other species. I'm sorry to hear about the losses of your fish and I really hope things start looking up. I wish I had some advice for getting your fish healthy right now but unfortunately I don't know what to tell you.

You say 50% daily water changes while rowing them out ok well at what point do we scale this effort back to the 1 - 2 times a weekd at 40 50% water change? I know they are not fully grown but man they got big in the last 2 months I have had them I am going to say about 4 inches so is now a good time to scale it back and do them like twice a week at 50%?? I never actually heard a rough number given and I am by the books well other than qt obviously kind of guy so I need someone to actually say when they get to the point they are 3 - 4 inches then you stop the daily water changes I am assuming Iam there now???
 
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ifixoldhouses said:
If your going to goto Baltimore noone has better Discus than Discus Hans, or so I've heard, and seen alot of his pictures
I assume you mean this place is in Baltimore MD?? I can easily drive there in an hour or so might be worth it for me, I have been in contac with Kenny's discus anyone of any thoughts on his??
 
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