Ok I give !!!!! Help ammonia problem

I have had my 45g high tank setup for about 2 years running great. Mind you had a lot of fish but started with 2 filters 1) Aquaclear 70 and a 2) Fuval 206. Only problem was a little algae caused because I kept leaving light on. Started with 7 Chilids and a small placo and small cat, after about 10 months addeds two Oscars, red and a tiger, still all good (although knew sooner or later would have to get rid of some) until 3 weeks ago ammonia spiked bad off the chart, everything else stayed "0" (except ph which dropped down)I took the following remedies to date and still stuck

(Level off chart)day 1 Water Change (WC) 4gall
" 3 WC 3 gallons
" 6 WC 15 g and vacuumed very well bottom
" 10 WC 15 g changed carbon on filter and add tetra Safe start Bottle
" 14 WC 10 g changed carbon other and added ammo chips
removed 3 fish (2 chilids, 2.5 inch and 3.5 and red Oscar4.5 )
( level 2ppm)"
" 20 WC 8 added filstar xp M fiter more fresh ammo in new filter and slowly added bottle 100ml of Am Guard (Seachem) over 35 hr period no change

STILL 2 PPM although water is Crystal Clear totalyNow What!!

CARE HISTORYfeed once a day cut down how much by 1/3 when this started

2 fillters called 1 and 2 followed this schedule (always replaced water that was in fiter tanks never washed bio media

1 week water change 10-15 gallons w/ bottom vac
2 week cleaned sponge part filter 1
3 week replaced carbon filter 2
skip week
5 week water change 10-15 gallons w/ bottom vac
6 week replaced carbon filter 1
7 week cleaned sponge part filter 2
wait 1 week repeat from week 1

 

Hello, welcome to fishlore!

The ammonia is most likely due to the (over)stocking. So as of now you have 5 "cichlids", 1 oscar, 1 pleco, and 1 catfish? What kind of cichlids do you mean? Most african cichlids need at least a 55 gallon tank; most larger south american cichlids need even bigger- one oscar, for example, (a south american cichlid) needs a 55 gallon, even bigger if you intend to keep other fish with it. African and South American cichlids shouldn't be housed in the same aquarium.

Do you know what kind of pleco you have? A bristlenose (or most other smaller plecos), for example, should be ok in a 45 gallon, but will likely be picked on by your other fish; a common pleco will need a 75+ gallon tank.

What kind of catfish is it? Most also need a 55+ gallon tank. Good news is that most will get along with cichlids

Are you replacing your carbon, or the entire filter media? A good point that will help you out in the future- don't replace your filter media. Beneficial bacteria lives in filter media, and removing it will damage your cycle, which could also be the cause of your increased ammonia.

 

Welcome to fishlore! I will agree with dolphin!

 

The chilids all under 2.5 inches at moment yes it is bristlenose (about 1.5 inches big the rest act like he is not even there) don't remember type of cat but he is about 1.75 inches big the chilids I got are not supposed to go over 3-4 inches when full grown The tank was ruuning great till this happened and now removeded almost 9 inches of fish out, removing all the big versions. I also added another filter
the 70 is good up to 70 gall
the 206 is good up to 45 gall
total before 114 gall filtration for a 45 gallon
add filstar xp m up to 75 gallons 75 gall
now filltrating 189 for 45 gallon tank filtering whole tank 17 times/hr that's 806 gallons per /hr also add ammo chips and the AM Guard ( which alone should brought a tank at 2ppm twice the size of mine to 0) not even mentioning all the water changes I could understand if I couldnt maintain it for long but don't get why can't bring it down further. I wouild agree with u if I coiuld bring it down and not keep it there this only happened 3 weeks ago and was fine before. There Aint THAT many fish in there if you assumed all 7 where at least 2.5 inches and the oscar was 4 than still only 21.5 inches of fish and if you added back fish I took out another 9 inches that still only 30 or so inches of fish well under 45 max for now. Also the filtration is excellent to say the least.

PS care history only cleaned filter media (ecess debri) chngesd only carbon and was all done on rotating schedule to protect bacteria!

 

When you are cleaning your filter media are you rinsing it out with old tank water, or taking it to a sink or whatever to clean it? If you are taking it to the sink the chlorine in untreated tap water could be enough to kill off whatever benefitial bacteria is/was on the media. If so than your tank could be going through a minI cycle again which is what is causing your ammonia spike. When are are testing your water are you using strips or a liquid test kit? The strips are notoriously inaccurate.

 

that's why I staggard cleaning them only cleaned one filter or changed one carbon at a time. Yes I would wash at sink to unclog than would dry real well than would rinse in water that was getting rid of from filter. Meanwhile still had other filter untouched completely and the carbon or the fiter (sponge material) not touched in same filter Now there is third filter and even add a full bottle of Tetra Safe Start plus whatever is in the rocks in bottom ( they have been vaccumed carefully but I never took out of tank hope that is not problem) tHIS WORKED GREAT FOR 2 YEARS ALL OTHER LEVELS REMAIN AT 0.(except ph). I wish it was something easy like that or strips, using liquid even changed that. I have got it down to it reads just under 2ppm and can't get it lower the water changes even ammo chips and AM gaurd nothing I even tested tap water for ammonia

 

Tap water is treated to remove bacteria.
Bacteria is what is processing the toxins in your tank.
Rinse your filter in old tank water during a water change and don't let it dry out. Your bacteria also needs water flow to survive.

 

I know this that is why only one sponge or carbon was done at a time no water change or anything else was touch and was rinsed off in tank water before going back in. MEANWHIle THERE are 2 complete filters (now 3) one always remained on touiched as well as what was not being washed in rest of the same fiter I was working. It Went like this open filter wash sponge wring out and rinse in tank water from filter that was getting rid off

PLUS BOTH HAve BIO MEDIA THAT IS NEVER TOUCHED

This left tons of places for bacteria to stay in each time!!!-

So
2 filters aquaclear 70 and a fuval 206
only sponge material from one tank out EVERYTHING ELSE LEFT Alone

2 fillters called 1 and 2 followed this schedule (always replaced water that was in fiter tanks never washed bio media

1 week water change 10-15 gallons w/ bottom vac
2 week cleaned sponge part filter 1
3 week replaced carbon filter 2
skip week
5 week water change 10-15 gallons w/ bottom vac
6 week replaced carbon filter 1
7 week cleaned sponge part filter 2
wait 1 week repeat from week 1

 

Sorry, I'm half awake, does that mean you're only doing a water change every 5 weeks?

 

I totally understand your thinking, but even with 3 filters running on your tank there is only so much bacteria to go around. With you cleaning the filter material at the tap you are essentially removing 1/3 of the beneficial bacteria with every cleaning. Sometimes that can result in spikes and minI cyclyes.

Also I just re-read your first post, it looks like you added some Tetra Safe Start, this could be why you've got screwy readings. I believe they ask for you to not test the water for up to 14 days as it is very likely to give false readings.

 

no it works out to every 4 week

 

Well that's another reason why you could be having spikes, you should really try and do weekly or at a minimum every 2 weeks water change. They longer in between ideally the more water you would change. On a 2 week water change I would do at least 50%.

 

The general suggestion that is given when having problems with cycling is to water change more heavily. When my tank started going through a minI cycle, it was suggested I start waterchanging 50% daily until the cycle stabilized, using prime to protect the fish and condition the water.

If you just added safestart, then yes. No water changes, no testing, no filter cleaning for 14 days or you can make the safestart fail.

 

This may be a stupid question, but your API test kit hasn't expired or gotten old has it? I had a panic with my ammonia being very high as well as the nitrites. It turned out my kit was expired... test some tap water to measure the ammonia and nitrites. If they are both 0 you are okay on the test kit.

 

Ok get what your saying as far as the filter will rinse only in tank water might have caused spike nothing about not testing on tetra bottle will look further but also BUT WHAT NOW!
Since this happened
changed 48 gallons of water in 20 days
added ammochips and 100 ml of am guard and the safe start
Got rid of almost a full third of my fish (but not even over )
ADDED ANOTHER 75 CANNISTER FILTER WATER NEVER LOOKED SO MY GOD CLEAR
AND I CANT GET IT TO DROP BELOW 2 PPM

sO WHAT DO I DO NOW ?

had already tried both new kit and tested tap water no help there and yes I use prime

 

If you've already done a water change since adding the safe start, then start doing daily water changes with prime. Keep in mind, prime keeps your fish safe for 24 hours, but will skew your readings on ammonia for 24 hours as well, so don't test in the morning and change at night. Test right before you do the water change.

The amount of water to change has been debateable, but the short term effects of shocking a fish from a larger water change are much more desirable than the long term effects of leaving them in too much waste water. Thus why I did 50% daily until my ammonia read 0, my nitrites read 0 and my nitrates read 10-20 ppm.

Don't think you're finished once they do! Keep an eye on it and keep testing!

 

the safe start was don only in case something effected my bacteria that was there already it doesn't ssy anything about what what you said on bottle MY bad
But this is all hind site NOW what

 

I already posted above about what you should be doing now. Re-read it please.

 

does prime effect your ammonia readings up or down and doesn't effect anything else there still all great except PH

 

Usually Prime will show still show readings of ammonia as it doesn't remove it from the water column, it just makes it safe to fish. This could be why your still showing ammonia readings. What is your pH? I've heard that if it gets to low that it can actually kill off the bacteria, or at least hinder them to where they are not producing at normal levels.

 

ok last question does more filtration equal more fish or is it strickly by tank size or was that abill of goods I got sold

 

Whoops, I've been gone awhile!

To answer your above question- both. If you have lots of filtration in say, a 40 gallon, you could get away with (for example) 3 goldfish PLUS a school of white cloud mountain minnows; in a 40 gallon with less filtration, you'd only be able to get away with 2-3 goldfish and no minnows.

Tank size is also a huge component though. Just because you get enough filters in your tank to give you more than 5x necessary water circulation doesn't mean you can cram your tank with fish. Eventually, they'll run out of swimming room or their territories will be invaded by too many fish, and bad things will happen.

The adult size of the fish will also play a role- a fish might fit in a tank when it's little, but if it remains in the tank to adulthood, it'll become stunted.

As for what you should do now: Since you have all kinds of things in your tank to bring down your ammonia, do another large water change to get rid of some of it- too many chemicals in the tank won't be healthy for your fish. After the water change, add the tetra safe start, wait 14 days (don't do anything during this time- no water changes, no testing parameters, no other chemicals). After 14 days, you should be on the road to a cycled tank. Do a large water change, dose with dechlorinator (Prime), wait a day, then test parameters.

Helpful reminders for after we get the ammonia problem figured out:

*Try to do 25% water changes once a week
*Don't test your parameters right after dosing with Prime; test the next day, or right before doing water changes
*It sounds like your good on filtration, you shouldn't need any more After a while, it just creates a big current
*Try to rehome some of the fish that get to large for your tank, specifically the oscar. African cichlids (which I'm assuming you have) and South American cichlids don't get along anyways