OH NO I THINK SATINS FINS ARE RIPPED... HELP!!

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ebbandflow

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So as I was feeding Satin tonight I noticed that it looked like his fins were torn in a couple of places. I reviewed the pics that Ive taken of him earlier and I think that he has his tail ripped like twice and a little shortened in one area. WHAT DO I DO?? Please help I am freaking out. Should I take out all my plastic plants? Treat for some disease as a preventative for fin rot? I honestly don't even know what finrot is and whether that is what Satin has or whether he just ripped it. Will the fin ever grow back?? HELP!!
 
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chickadee

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If his fins are torn, it doesn't make any difference if it is finrot or not the treatment is the same. He has to have a very clean water environment (I AM NOT saying he is dirty now, but just that it is really important now) The temperature is going to have to go up to 82 degrees and he is going to have to have a medication to get rid of the problem if it is finrot or prevent it if it isn't there yet. I would suggest Melafix because it is herbal and natural and with the increased temperature it should help. You add it to the water daily for one week and then do a water change and if the problem is still there, you continue with the treatment. The only other medication I would recommend if you would feel better with an antibiotic is the Fungus Clear Tank Buddies by Jungle Labs. You just drop one tablet in for every 10 gallons of water and leave it alone for 4 days (it says you don't need to raise the temperature, but I would never give medication without the 82 degree temp as the bacteria or parasite cannot read the box and they still need a higher temp to die) The reason I like these is because they help keep the fish from picking up a secondary infection after treatment.

Seriously, the only reason I would go ahead and medicate is the fact that you mentioned the BANDING and something about that doesn't sound right. He needs to be medicated. I think you caught it really early so he should be okay. Just get that temperature up until you can get some meds in there with him. Now BREATHE.
Believe me I know how hard it is to have a sick baby. I have spent nights sitting up with them. Turn up the heat and stay with him until the heater goes off. If you don't have a thermometer for your tank, get one. If your heater wasn't new when you got it, it may be not keeping him at a steady enough temperature. Sad to say you may need a new heater. The Marineland heaters are lifetime warrantied, but not that expensive if you need a recommendation.

Let me know how he is doing. Let me know if you need anything. I really do believe he will be okay. Just try to relax so he doesn't pick up on you being scared. They are tough little pals and they aren't as fragile as they look, but I am glad you got onto it as fast as you did.

I checked and the Tank Buddies are carried by Walmart here so they are available most towns that have a fish department at their Walmart.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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Thank you so much Rose. The heater is brand new and I checked the temp for about a week almost hourly and it seemed to keep it at an exact temp. Would raising the temp even more then 82 be better or is 82 optimal? Thank you for the advice. Which treatment is the best one. I don't know anything about antibiotics so I don't know which one I would feel better about. Are there other signs I should look for if it is a parasite causing this vs him just having his fins ripped. And should I take out the plastic plants? Just in case that is what caused the rip?

And thanks for the advice to not freak out... I will certainly try. I'm not doing well so far, I can't sleep. God now I have a window into what parents have to deal with. I must say I do not envy them.
 
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chickadee

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Well 82 is considered the temperature that most of the medications which treat everything but ich seem to start working in a manner to which they are supposed to. I would say that 82 would be okay but anything over 84 is excessive at this point. If he were to break out in any white spots then we would shoot for 85 and stay there for at least 14 days. (ICH) But I am still guessing that he nicked his fins and got a little infection and has a case of finrot starting. He needs treatment, but nothing drastic. Put him up to 82 degrees or 83 if you aren't that confident of the accuracy of the heater. (no more than that at this time though) and look into getting him some medicine. I really would feel better giving him the medication at this point since he had the symptoms that we all thought were funny a day ago. It may have been the start of all this and now just to be on the safe side we don't want to have a full blown case of problems. The Tank Buddies are very good medication but not so strong that they will make him prone to backlash infections that we cannot cure. They are also easy to use because you don't have to worry about giving them at the same time or every day or anything. You just drop a tablet in the water and it fizzes until its gone and then it stays in the water for 4 days before you do a water change of 25% and if the case needs it you dose again. (AND remember BEFORE you put the medication into the tank to remove the carbon from your filter or it will take the medicine back out of the water right after you put it in) I don't suppose that your 10 gallon is ready is it? It would use so much less medication to treat him in the smaller tank. You can still do just fine in the big tank but the cost for the medication will be nearly 3 times as much. Unfortunately, though if the 10 gallon is not cycled, don't try to transfer him - he couldn't handle the stress of a partially cycled tank now. He is used to where he is. Is he eating?

As far as parenting goes, I have been both parent to fish and humans, and I am not just too sure that children aren't easier. LOL They can at least TELL you what is wrong. I had the biggest scare with Misty today and so I know what you are going through in a small way. She didn't end up having a problem but she nearly gave her Mommy heart failure. Her parents must have had a dark maroon strain in them. Since she has been growing her fins have been getting more maroon on the parts of them that aren't transparent. I had looked at her and it looked like she was BLEEDING from her gills!! I changed her water and checked to see what she could have torn herself on and was frantic. I couldn't find a thing, and then I looked at the little darling really close and saw that she is getting little tiny vein looking lines of maroon all around her gills that are just her natural color. NOW WHAT? Am I going to have to get out an eye glass to see if she really has a problem or am I going to miss something by assuming it is just her regular spots!! Yes, you see I know exactly how you feel and what you are going through only maybe not to the same degree since Misty is okay, but for a while there my adrenalin was going, YOU BET it was.

Satin is going to be okay. You are a good and loving daddy and doing the right thing. Just try to keep him on his regular schedule and feed him like usual. and let us know if you see any changes in his looks or behavior, but I definitely want progress reports. I was a nurse for 27 years and believe in reports LOL.

Try to have a Good Night. Satin needs you to take care of yourself too.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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As far as how he is acting nothing has changed... (eating normally, very active) so that's one thing I guess. The ten gallon is technically ready. It has been running for about a month now and I am actually getting bio spira via the mail tomorrow. Do you think it would be ok to put him in the ten gallon if I add in the bio spira with him? I have a thermometer so I have been able to keep track of the accuracy of both heaters... the temp gauges seem to be like a few degrees off (set it for 78 if you want 80, 80 if you want 82) but I figured them out and they keeep a constant temp once you get the setting right.

Ugh "finrot". It sounds so disgusting and painful. Like gangrene or something.

I'm glad to hear that misty is just getting more beautiful (if possible). Sorry you were scared for a bit there though. I seriously don't think I'm gonna be able to sleep tonight. Oh well I have some school work that I could be workin on anyways... :-\
 
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chickadee

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Well, you won't find me telling you not to do schoolwork, but you must take care of yourself. You cannot help Satin if you are down now.

Yes the Bio-spira will be an INSTANT cycle so he can go in right after you add it as far as I know. The Tank Buddies will not disturb the cycle. If it was a saltwater tank you might worry but not for a freshwater. It really would be better for him to be in the smaller tank even though that may complicate your plans for a peaceful transition later, but we can deal with that when he is well.

Do try to get some rest and face this again in the morning - I cannot help it I was a Mom!

Rose
 
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0morrokh

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I kind of thought that the tank buddies were stronger. I used them on my Otos, and they worked miracles but in the process turned the water greenish blue and made all the fish drowsy. The Otos especially didn't appreciate the chemicals. But maybe it isn't really that strong, I know that Otos are very sensitive...you know how us fishkeepers tend to overreact to any changes in our fish...and I admit I haven't ever medicated with anything else before. (well, actually I tried Maracyn II for the finrot, and that did absolutely nothing, probably because you're supposed to use them together...) But anyway it sounds as if the Melafix would be better at this point. Try not to panic too much. My Otos recovered from serious cases of finrot so I'm sure your Betta will recover easily from a minor one...if it really is a disease, not just an injury. I hope he gets better soon!
 
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chickadee

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Well sad to say, I now have a buddy on the finrot treatment. Is there something in the way the sun is shining lately? He hadn't been eating really well and been a little quieter than usual, but I thought we had gotten through the spell without him getting really sick. Marty's fins were a little transparent this morning in a couple of places and the tips on a couple of them looked like a curling iron had been used on them. The ambient room temperature here was lower by several degrees and the heat in the tank was down for some reason. Needless to say I am getting to use my LIFETIME warranty on that heater. I have the quarantine tank set up and going and he hates it but I didn't want to medicate the otos if I didn't have to.

We will see.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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I actually just got the tank buddies... is it gonna be too strong? And I was just reading the box, it says it clears fungus and bacteria. Its not gonna kill my good bacteria is it? And should I go out and buy the melafix? Its funny the guy at the pet store was telling me to get that one but I got the tank buddies instead. What to do? I won't put in anything till I hear back from you gys.
 
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0morrokh

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It's fine, go ahead and try it. The only reason I got that much of a reaction from my Otos is because they're extremely sensitive to stuff in the water. I think your Betta should be fine. Since you have it there's no reason not to give it a try. And no, it shouldn't affect your filter bacteria at all.
 
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chickadee

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Omorrokh is right. It is what I am doing right now for my little guy. (Marty) He is in quarantine with a Tank Buddy right now.

Go ahead and he will be fine. And no they should not hurt the particular bacteria you are trying to grow. It only kills the bad kind.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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I probably should have thought about this before but... Ive never moved a fish before. How do I do it?
 
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chickadee

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Since he already has fin damage, I would remove as much of the decorations as you can from the tank since he is the only one in there. He is going to lead you a merry chase and we don't want him to run into anything and cause more damage. If there were other fish or the tank was planted I would not tell you to do this, but you can put teh things back after he is out of there since there aren't any other fish in there yet. Sorry. Then the best way is with a net. I have had some say they catch fish with their hands, but he is already hurt so we want to be as gentle with the fins as possible. The net will be soft on them. just put the net in the aquarium and get him used to it being there so he won't be so afraid of it being there and when he is settled and used to it, try to get him into it. DO NOT WORRY if you have to chase him. He isn't going to be hurt by the net. It is necessary and he will settle down after he is moved. I know you are very protective of him right now but this falls into the area of "do the best you can to get him into the net with the least amount of hassle" and he will make that IMPOSSIBLE. Just don't let him take any longer than necessary. If you can even get 2 nets and chase him into one with the other one. I know chase sounds bad, but believe me you aren't going to be in total control here. Moving a Betta is an experience, but it is one of those times when you must practice a little tough love and just do the best you can. It has to be done.

I will try to be here and available online tonight for a while yet so if you run into a problem I will keep checking back for questions. Let me know how it goes. If you have a really good rapport with him you could try to coax him into a jar or some container with some food, but I don't like to use food to make them do something they don't like for fear they will stop eating.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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Rose, I honestly don't know how to thank you. You have been so great through this whole thing.
 
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chickadee

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Well, just you take care of BOTH of you. I would hate to think we saved the Betta and lost the Boy.

I seriously consider this a type of occupation for myself - and a wonderful one at that - and I really enjoy all you folks. It is so EASY to do something you LOVE so much. And I have some wonderful friends in all of you.

You can thank me by returning the favor to someone else someday. But I am NOT here for thanks, just to be available when I am needed. You all have no idea how much doing this is helping me.

Rose
 
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0morrokh

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is right!  I'm dreading the day when I have to catch my Otos and move them to the 20g.
You may want to leave the net sitting in the tank overnight so he can get used to it.  I have had to net fish before, and there is no one way to do it...many say the easiest thing to do is trap him against the glass, but sometimes it may be easier to trap him at the surface.
The trick is to work slowly and calmly.  If you hold the net in the water, he will be curious and may eventually swim toward it to check it out.  You want to slowly--not fast and frantically--steer him towards the wall of the tank or else the surface.  I think what I usually ended up doing was trapping them at a corner of the tank--the net is to one side and below them, the opposite tank wall was on the other side of them, and the surface is right above.  Then you have to pull the net up quickly.  I hope this made at least a little sense.  HAVE FUN!! ;D

oops this post is slightly delayed...you both posted again before I could post this, oh well
 
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ebbandflow

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Haha I've been lost for years Rose so don't worry about that one. I'm like fish I guess... I stress easily what can I say. I'm getting better though.

I actually think I just breathed for the first time in over 24 hours! Catching Satin was waaay easy... he trusts me too much ;D ;D. He came right up to the top and before he knew it he was in the other tank. No chasing or anything! Then I put in the tablet (oooh, green) and added the bio spira to the filter.

So everything is cool with the ten gallon. I don't think I have to do anything else. I fed Satin a little bit just so he wouldnt hate me. I couldnt resist (god I am going to spoil my kids whenever I have them). If you have any suggestions please tell me.

Umm... what do I do now with the 29. Do I have to sanitize it in some way before I put Satin back or get other fish in there? I've got all this bio-spira now and nothing to use it on :'(.
 
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OK something else I just noticed (breathing has stopped once again.) He seems to be like changing color. The top front part of his head which used to be black is like red now. And also his lower fins (I forget what they are called) used to have a little red streak in them but now they are more so. What does this mean?
 
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0morrokh

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Well, it's hard to say without a pic (please post one if you can), but red streaks can be a bacterial infection or internal problems...sorry that was really general, but I'm not quite clear as to what exactly the diseases are...anyway my Oto Mist had red streads/patches along with finrot, and the tank buddies got rid of that too. But with your Betta it could just be coloration.
 
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chickadee

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Okay, it is time for a story and it even happens to be true. Misty is a little Pineapple colored Female with cellophane and Maroon fins. She has always been totally Pineapple colored, but yesterday I had heart failure over the fact that it looked like she was bleeding from her gills. After I had gone off and changed about 80% of her water (overkill I know) and taken everything out of the tank and checked for sharp areas - all to no avail. Then I took another look at the little girl in question and there they were .... little vein like lines of maroon scales around her gills. She is changing color in some small way. (she just has a few maroon scales here and there) So Bettas can and do have the ability to change some color. Especially if he is a fairly young Betta, he could still be settling into his final color. BUT keep an eye on him now that the medicaiton is being used.

Yes they turn everything green, but most of that will come out when you put the carbon in to remove the meds when he is well. About the only thing I have that didn't revert to the normal color was the white colored suction cups are now green (a pretty green) -- the clear ones weren't affected. Just watch and don't get too panicky until the meds have had a couple of days at least. Don't expect to see any fin repair for at least a week. He will not be able to have tank mates for at least a month -- you will have to either have a quarantine tank set up or use the 29 for the first batch and then get a quarantine tank so I don't know if you can save the Bio-spira but that may be a use for it. Otherwise, I would do a massive water change (on the 29j) and then use the Bio-spira on it. But don't forget you will have to feed your tank or you will lose your bacteria in the 29 now that you no longer have a fish in it. Check out the article on Fishless Cycling at:

https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm


I know your tank was cycled but if there is not a fish in there producing ammonia, your bacteria will die. You can also get some plain (unperfumed) Ammonia in the cleaning products aisle of the supermarket and add it according to the instructions in the above article. It will not work for the fish (frozen from the store) to be put in the tank to feed your tank. It will mean starting the cycle all over again. Actually the only real way is to use the Ammonia because the fish food will not be able to keep up until it starts to rot.

Let me know how things are going. I will be here in the morning for a little while and would like to know how he is doing.

Take care and don't GET LOST. LOL I am encouraged that you still have your sense of humor.

Have a good day,
Rose
 
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0morrokh

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My suction cups are a pretty blue-green too. ;D
I hope your Betta gets better soon...and don't forget to breathe!
 
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ebbandflow

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Ok I have put Satin to sleep (covered the tank with some sheets) and promised myself that I wasn't going to check on him till morning... so we both can rest. Lets see how it goes. I guess at this point I am telling myself that there is nothing I can do so stop worrying.

I can say it a thousand times it just doesn't seem to take...
 
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ebbandflow

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Oh yeah and I'll post pics tomorrow. I can't find my camera right now and I can't think straight.
 
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chickadee

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First question to ask yourself. Is he eating? If he is eating, he doesn't feel sick. So that is something. If he starts hanging out on the bottom of the tank and not eating then the medication is not working, but you couldn't have him in a cleaner environment. (brand new and with a brand new near perfect cycle) and he is in a good temperature with one of the best medications for finrot that there is. He may seem a little drowsy like Omorrokh says, but I am not sure that is a bad thing. Sometimes we need a good rest to get better and I am not sure it isn't the same with the little fish. It may be a side effect that in intended in the medication, as long as it does not intefere with his eating and he does still go to the top to breathe occasionally, he is doing what needs to be done. Also watch that he doesn't have his side fins clamped to his body. They need to be waving like crazy when he swims so he can direct his movement. If the Tank Buddies are working, still don't expect to see much fin repair for at least a week. Just do the water change like it does say after 4 days, should be Sunday sometime. He probably should have a second dose unless he is acting super good. Let us know how he is progressing. When you discontinue the Tank Buddies you should definitely put him on the Melafix for a while to prevent any problem with the finrot returning or causing weak spots in his fins. A week should do it. Melafix and Pimafix are not a bad thing to have in your medicine chest for the fish you plan on having no matter what, so I would get a good sized bottle (8 ounces or so).

You nearly scared me to death until I read on in your post about putting Satin to sleep. LOL I understood about the sheet then and that is an excellent idea so he had no outside stimulI to interfere with his rest. I am so glad it did not stress him to move. He is really developing a friendship with you. Enjoy it, I am sure you will not have any other of your fish to have this kind of relationship with and it has something to do with him being a Betta surely, but also you are giving him ALL the attention right now. He is getting a little spoiled -- isn't it easy to do.

Take care of both of you. Let us know how you are doing (both of you) and we will be glad to see the pictures.

Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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Whoa Rose sorry to give you the scare. I didnt even know you could do that with fish or else I would have said it a different way.

Hes definitely moving around, active and gobbling down food. I'll attach some pics of how hes looking below though... its kind of depressing (it gets worse and worse as time goes on). How fast are the meds supposed to work, because I think his tail is looking worse then it was last night. You can't really tell something is wrong in the 3 days ago pic but if you look close you'll see a part of the top of his tail fin is shorter then it should be.

There was this white stuff on under his gills that I thought was just coloration but since I put in the meds it has dissapeared so it was a possible fungus I guess.

The person at the pet shop said that putting in "stress coat" would help his fins to repair faster. What do you think?
 
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0morrokh

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That looks like finrot alright. Don't let yourself worry too much; finrot is not a life-threatening disease unless left untreated for a long time. That's good that he's acting ok. Fish can react very differently to finrot...one with a mild case may clamp his fins and sulk in a corner, while another with a mild case may act perfectly normal. The eating is definitely good. Stress Coat has aloe which is supposed to help with healing fins...I put some more in when my Otos had finrot. I don't know how well it actually works but it won't hurt anything. It will take a while for the meds to start working so just be patient. With my Oto marble I medicated for the full 8 days. In that time all that happened was the finrot stopped pregressing. I removed the meds and waited to see if I should repeat the process. But within maybe a week the fins were slowly starting to grow back. It is recommended that you medicate until the fins start coming back, but with the tank buddies you can only medicate for 8 days at once. You will probably need to go for that long; then remove the medication, and if you feel it is necesary remedicate.
 
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Butterfly

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Such good advice! Just wanted th throw a thought in here. The stress coat won't hurt him and may even help keep him calm. But some times stress coat causes little bubles on top of the water that looks like soap bubbles. Won't cover the whole top just kind of to one side. Don't let it scare you if it does. Won't harm anything but is scarey if you don't know what's causing it.
Carol
 
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0morrokh

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Oh yeah, good point. One time I tried putting the Stress Coat (I use it as my water conditioner) in the clean water bucket before adding water, and when I poured in the water it all bubbled up like soap! I don't have problems in my tank though.
 
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chickadee

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Stress Coat is soothing to his coat and gives him a barrier to irritants and may help him feel better. It will also help coat the healthy areas of his body and keep them from being exposed to the bacteria in the water. Yes, finrot is not fatal if caught early and while it is still at the ends of the fins. Where the fish gets in big trouble is usually when it attacks the fins up close to the body.

He is acting really like he is not even aware he is sick so it isn't bad enough to make him feel bad. I am like Omorrokh I think you will have to go the full 8 day route with the Tank Buddies and then hold off for a while to see if the fins are regenerating on their own. You can use Melafix during this time, but if you are using Stress Coat that may be enough.

I know about the looking worse and worse. Marty is losing more and more of his fins every time I look at him but he is getting all the treatment I can give him and doing as well as Satin (moving around as usual, and eating like always - gobbling) He is also chasing the otos again so he has the "naughty bug" yet LOL. That is my only encouragement.

Rose
 
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0morrokh

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Well, I won't bore you with a long detailed story, but both of my Otos had bad finrot and recovered. It hit Marble first...he was missing the middle third of his caudal fin by the time he started getting better. Once he was recovering Mist got finrot. Mist was always smaller and weaker and I seriously thought I would lose him. He was so weak I decided I had to use a smaller dose of medication, but sure enough he started to recover. No sooner had he began showing good improvement then he got caught in a plastic plant and shredded his fins among other injuries. I was sure he would either die from the immediate effects of the injuries or else some deadly infection would set in. But once again I was wrong. I used a bit of medication I believe just to make sure finrot wouldn't take hold again; I was starting to see signs of new fraying among the tears. To date Marble looks like nothing ever happened and Mist is growing back his caudal fin nicely, although I don't believe it will be as nice as it used to be simply because of the injuries.

So, if my delicate little Otos could pull through finrot and fin injuries, I'm sure your Betta can. Oh, btw, I used the same medication as you are, in case I haven't said yet. So, hopefully that encourages you a little. (although it did turn into a long detailed story after all
 
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ebbandflow

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My parents have asked me about twenty times today, "Why are you sighing?" and "Are you ok?".

Thanks for all the supportive words guys.
 
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0morrokh

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try not to dwell on it too much. Worrying won't help. I'm sure your Betta will recover just fine.
 
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ebbandflow

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Why won't that stupid fungus pick on something its own size. >
 
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0morrokh

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Yes it should.
 
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chickadee

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Satin is a strong little fish or he would not be responding the way he is and continuing to eat and swim around actively. You really are doing a fantastic job of taking care of him and showing him you care. The best thing you can do is try to keep him on his normal routine so he doesn't get upset by anymore stress. He will also pick up on your stress so do try not to worry. He is probably in better shape than you are at the moment.

It is true the little otos came through the worst of circumstances, Poor lLittle Mist was in constant trouble for a while there. I was in constant fear that I would hear he was gone, but he came through just fine and he went through a lot. The Tank Buddies pulled him through and I am sure they will work on Satin, after all didn't you say the white spots were gone. That is a positive sign. Just keep the temperature up and if anymore white spots come on you may have to raise it even further. But so far, just take it a short while at a time and try not to obsess about it. I know that is very hard to do, but time is the only thing that you can give him right now. He has all the medication he should have.

Take care and let us know how all is going. We are with you and will be here if you need us. (if he needs anything or if you have questons).

Have a Good Night and get some rest.
Rose
 
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ebbandflow

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Ok here's the update. Other then how he looks Satin is still the happy healthy fish I bought a week ago. Very active, very hungry, soooo cute. More of his tail fin is gone. There is a pin size hole in his top fin that I do not think was there before. Also, there is now what appears to be this tiny crystal grain on the top of his head. What do all these new symptoms mean? What should I do?
 
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chickadee

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I would raise the temperature to 85 and keep it there just to be safe about that "grain" on his head. We don't need to deal with ich at the same time as everything else. The raise in the temperature will make the parasite leave him and go into the water where they die because there are no other fish to attach to. But it has to remain at 85 for AT LEAST 14 days. This should be enought with no more meds needed! We will just have you keep a close eye on the "grain" after the temperature change.

Otherwise, I think we are in a "holding pattern" waiting for the meds to take hold and his fins won't even start to regenerate for at least a week.

I am very encouraged that he is happy and active and I have seen how CUTE he is. I agree he is a darling.

Rose
 
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  • #38

ebbandflow

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Ok, temp is up... I wish my spirits would follow :-[.
 
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chickadee

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He is a very fortunate Betta indeed to have you for a Dad. Now relax and don't be too hard on yourself. You are doing everything right. I did at one time tell you I am sure that PATIENCE is the hardest part and the most important part in owning a Betta.

I am just so glad he doesn't seem to KNOW he has a problem. That is a VERY GOOD sign.

Rose
 
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  • #40

ebbandflow

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Ok day four of fungus clear. Should I do the 25% water change and put in another tablet? Anything else? I still have a normal acting betta on my hands.
 
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