Oh dear. Cycle help please?

To start: I have read a lot of articles about the nitrogen cycle, so I kindly ask that people do not simply point me to one as an answer to this.


Like I said, I've read a number of articles and instructions for cycling a tank. In particular, I used the article copied into this thread () to guide me through the process for the first time. I followed the instructions for a fishless cycle using the "Add and Wait method".

I think I may have gone wrong somewhere, because I began this process on May 12th (2.5 weeks ago) and my ammonia levels haven't really dropped.
I'll explain exactly what I did (aside from what is written in the instructions for cycling in the link above). If anyone has a suggestion on what to do or any ideas on why my ammonia isn't dropping, I'd appreciate the input.

-I used plain ammonia (no additives, other than water, no perfumes, etc).
-I have a 10 gal tank, everything brand new. I was not able to get any kind of filter media or gravel to help my cycling along, so it's all from the ammonia.
-Before I added the ammonia to start cycling my tank, I used 1 tsp (the amount specified on the bottle for 10 gal) of AquaSafe.
-After adding the ammonia to the tank, my ammonia levels were around 5-6ppm.

About 3 days after I added the ammonia, the water got quite cloudy. That cloudiness went away after another 2-3 days; I assumed it was a bacteria bloom.

I've tested my ammonia levels roughly every other day (as I said, they're not falling). However, I did have to top off the tank yesterday as about 1" of water had evaporated. I didn't add any additional ammonia when I did that and today when I tested, the ammonia appears to be between 4-5ppm. I'm not sure if it's actually dropping or if it's simply because it's slightly diluted.


I'm not sure if it makes a huge different but my heater took a very long time to get my tank up to 78-80* F. I noticed for about 2 weeks it wouldn't go above 74-76 and a few days ago I noticed that it had finally gone up to the 78-80 zone.


I'm not really sure if I did something wrong, if the temperature (or something else) affected the cycles's start, or if it stalled for some reason.

If anyone has any input, please let me know. I'll be happy to answer any additional questions about information I may have forgotten.

Thanks in advance!

 

Every tank cycles differently, it seems. Do you understand that it could take 4-6 weeks to cycle?

I've never used this method, so I can't really say how far into it you should be seeing changes in the ammonia reading.

Don't top off the tank, it's really not necessary as you have no fish in it.

Did you also use the Tetra Safe Start that you have written in your aquarium info?

 

Yes, I do know that it can take 4-6 weeks for a tank to cycle, but judging by most posts and articles I've read, the ammonia should have at least started to drop by now, which aside from it being diluted yesterday, it hasn't budged.

I wasn't sure whether or not I should top off the tank; I figured I didn't exactly need to, but honestly the extra noise from the filter was beginning to annoy me so I decided to since I couldn't find anything that said I shouldn't.

I did not use Tetra Safe Start, I actually need to remove that from my profile; I accidentally wrote that I had SafeStart, when what I was thinking about (that I actually have) is AquaSafe.

 

Yes, I do know that it can take 4-6 weeks for a tank to cycle, but judging by most posts and articles I've read, the ammonia should have at least started to drop by now, which aside from it being diluted yesterday, it hasn't budged.

I wasn't sure whether or not I should top off the tank; I figured I didn't exactly need to, but honestly the extra noise from the filter was beginning to annoy me so I decided to since I couldn't find anything that said I shouldn't.

I did not use Tetra Safe Start, I actually need to remove that from my profile; I accidentally wrote that I had SafeStart, when what I was thinking about (that I actually have) is AquaSafe.

I wonder if you didn't overdose your tank with ammonia at the start. I've never used this method, but I know that too much ammonia can kill the bacteria just as easily as too little. From what I've read the usual dose using this method is more like 1-2 ppm, isn't it? Then, when that has processed you add more and keep doing that for a couple of weeks. You can't make it happen faster by adding more, it doesn't really work that way.

 

I wonder if you didn't overdose your tank with ammonia at the start. I've never used this method, but I know that too much ammonia can kill the bacteria just as easily as too little. From what I've read the usual dose using this method is more like 1-2 ppm, isn't it? Then, when that has processed you add more and keep doing that for a couple of weeks. You can't make it happen faster by adding more, it doesn't really work that way.

In the instructions I was following from the linked thread (above) it said to bring the ammonia level to 5-6ppm. Then (from what I understand) not to add anymore ammonia until the level drops to around 1ppm, at which point you should be able to see nitrites.

I had seen this method of adding ammonia to 5-6ppm and then waiting for it to drop off all over the web several times and I chose to try that. I had wondered the same thing though, I wasn't sure if my ammonia killed my bacteria, but since I followed the instructions to the 't', I thought I'd better wait for a while before doing anything new.


Also, for curiosity's sake I decided to test my nitrite level a few minutes ago but there are none. =/

 

In the instructions I was following from the linked thread (above) it said to bring the ammonia level to 5-6ppm. Then (from what I understand) not to add anymore ammonia until the level drops to around 1ppm, at which point you should be able to see nitrites.

I had seen this method of adding ammonia to 5-6ppm and then waiting for it to drop off all over the web several times and I chose to try that. I had wondered the same thing though, I wasn't sure if my ammonia killed my bacteria, but since I followed the instructions to the 't', I thought I'd better wait for a while before doing anything new.

Fair enough, that was my only thought when I read your post. Wait for some more responses and hopefully someone will have a better idea.

 

Welcome to FishLore!

When I started out, I cycled with fish. I didn't daily realize water changes were needed to protect the fish when cycling with fish, I just put 4 Danios in my 36 gallon tank and waited. So in a way, it would be very similar to just adding ammonia and waiting.

For three weeks my ammonia just rose. Then finally one day, after I was postive the ammonia level would never drop, it went to zero. Then I had 3 weeks of high nitrites before they dropped overnight.

So I'd say that everything is going fine so far. I know it's hard, but just try to to be patient.

Good luck!

 

To add to what jdhef said, I started cycling my tank with pure ammonia, except I did the add every day method. It took a good 2.5-3 weeks before nitrites started to appear and the ammonia levels to begin dropping. I think you're heading in the right direction, just have to be patient, and that's not always easy!

 

Congrats on fishless cycling!!! Id say you are right on track too...leave the ammonia where it is until you see it dropping with nitrites...if it drops with no nitrites (down to at least 2ppm or so) add some more ammonia to keep it at the 4-5ppm....then keep it at the 1-2ppm once you have the nitrites.... topping off the tank is ok also...I hate that noise as well...just remember to use a dechlorinator...good luck and sending a bottle of patience to you!!(WISH someone did me when I started out ugh)

 

Is it really worth that long of a wait when there are 'bacteria in a bottle' products out now that allow you to put fish in the same day? For an average of $10, which is nothing compared to the cost of everything else that goes into setting up a new tank, I don't understand 'fishless cycling'. It wasn't that long ago when there were no such products so we had no choice (other than using fish) to cycle.

Maybe I'm missing something. But it sure makes things a lot easier.

 

Fishless cycling is absolutely worth it! I also did fishless cycling with pure ammonia, and during it I was going crazy with impatience and had doubts, but then it all worked out beautifully. Why not just use bacteria in a bottle you ask?

First of all there is only one type that is known to work correctly: Tetra Safe Start. The other brands from what I have heard just add non-self-sustaining bacteria that are the wrong type and outcompete the right type of bacteria. So if you cannot do fishless cycling, use Tetra Safe Start, but fishless cycling is so much better. First of all if you read threads about Tetra Safe Start here on fishlore, you will see a number of threads of people for whom it worked, but also a number of people for whom Tetra Safe Start cycle failed. If you did fish-in cycling with TSS and it failed, then you wind up having an uncycled tank with fish, and then first of all your fish will have been in potentially toxic water while you thought TSS was working, and once you determine that TSS cycle failed, then you will need to do daily water changes to keep your fish safe until your tank cycles.

Whereas with fishless cycling if the cycle stalls or you made a mistake, no problem! You are not endangering any fish, no need for any daily water changes, and you can always change your mind and do a fish-in cycle with TSS after all if you completely lost your patience, but you cannot start cycling with fish and then discover that you have to do daily water changes and loose patience with that - once you get fish fishless cycling is no longer an option without re-homing these fish, and re-homing fish is complex since few stores take fish back. So I think that fishless cycling is a much better way to go.

However when I was fishless cycling I was going crazy with impatience, I read all I could about it, and found out that fishless cycling was first developped or popularized anyway by an organic chemist named Dr. Cow who went by the nickname of Nomad in forums where he participated in online, so I used to joke that I am following the crazy ideas of a nomadic cow. I also gave my cycle an ultimatum: either finish a week after ultimatum or I am getting fish anyway, and then I fervently hoped that the cycle would succeed within that week, and it did! Good luck and lots of wishes of patience to you!

PS: Your temperature being as low as it was may have contributed to bacteria growth taking longer - bacteria grow best in higher temp. I had cranked my heater all the way up and my tank was in mid-80s throughout my cycle. Also have you measured your pH lately? pH tends to fluctuate during cycle, but if it falls down to 6, then the bacteria stop multiplying. So if your pH is down to 6, you can do a large water change to bring pH back up, and then if pH is still low add a bit of baking soda if needed (when this happened to me I did not need the baking soda - the water change did the trick), and after your pH is back up you would redose with ammonia.

 

Is it really worth that long of a wait when there are 'bacteria in a bottle' products out now that allow you to put fish in the same day? For an average of $10, which is nothing compared to the cost of everything else that goes into setting up a new tank, I don't understand 'fishless cycling'. It wasn't that long ago when there were no such products so we had no choice (other than using fish) to cycle.

Maybe I'm missing something. But it sure makes things a lot easier.

I think SafeStart is a great product, especially for a beginner since begineers are usually very impatient and just want to get fish in the tank rather than wait 4-6 weeks. Of course SafeStart isn't so great if it does not work, but if used properly, it has a pretty high success rate.

To my way of thinking, using SafeStart is almost the same as aquiring "seeded" filter media.

 

Hey, I object to the stereotype of beginners too impatient to do fishless cycle. I was a beginner and I am a very impatient person, and yet I successfully completed a fishless cycle. I think fishless cycling is perfect for beginners especially because we make mistakes, and during a fishless cycle one can make as many beginner mistakes as needed without the punishment of dead fish.

 

I'm not trying to argue here, but what mistakes are you talking about? So would you recommend against a beginner using "seeded" media to get an instant cycle?

 

Had I known more about Tetra SafeStart, I'd have used it rather than waited a month and a half messing around with daily dosing and testing. Yes, it only takes a few minutes of the day, but over a 45 day period, it's almost as tedious as daily water changes. My patience was at a major low at the end of last week and frustration was getting the better of me due to a pepetually stalled cycle. The reality is when you get a tank, especially as a first-timer, you want to watch fish swim in it. If something can legitimately make that happen in a shorter timespan, I think the enjoyability of the hobby goes up exponentially.

That being said, I would prefer not to cycle with fish in simply because I don't want to kill fish due to irresponsibility or plain lack of motivation on a given day, but I see nothing at all wrong with using a proven bacteria seeder. It's no different than getting seeded media from an established tank, which is how I ultimately successfully cycled my tank.

 

Is it really worth that long of a wait when there are 'bacteria in a bottle' products out now that allow you to put fish in the same day? For an average of $10, which is nothing compared to the cost of everything else that goes into setting up a new tank, I don't understand 'fishless cycling'. It wasn't that long ago when there were no such products so we had no choice (other than using fish) to cycle.

Maybe I'm missing something. But it sure makes things a lot easier.

The negative response you usually see with regard to the "bacteria in a bottle" stems from the fact that the vast majority of products marketed as instant cycles don't work. They end up endangering your fish. Because of that, you will never see me recommend them. YMMV

 

I'm not trying to argue here, but what mistakes are you talking about? So would you recommend against a beginner using "seeded" media to get an instant cycle?

No, I have no problem using seeded media and to be clear I am not opposed to using Tetra Safe Start either. I just think that cycling fishless is safer. Beginner mistakes are unpredictable: we all make mistakes early on because we do not know any better yet. I know I have made mistakes and I am sure I will make more. All I am saying here is that if one does fishless cycling one can't kill any fish due to mistakes during that first month, and hopefully one uses that time to research more, and is less likely to make mistakes once one has fish.

 

To my way of thinking, there is no mistake you can make when cycling with SafeStart or "seeded" media that fishless cycling will have prevented. I just don't think that putting a bunch of drops of ammonia in a aquarium and waiting 6 weeks really teaches you anything other than how to put ammonia in a tank to cycle it. All the mistakes come after fish are added, and the same mistakes will be made either way.

I've never cycled a tank fishless. Out of ignorance (before discovering FishLoreand on the advice of the salesgirl at PetSmart), I just put 4 danios in my tank and did nothing but feed them for 6 weeks, no water changes at all..yikes! But I feel that I have a very strong grasp on the nitrogen cycle, even though I never cycled fishless.

But everyone is different, and everyone has prefered ways of doing things.

 

To my way of thinking, there is no mistake you can make when cycling with SafeStart or "seeded" media that fishless cycling will have prevented. I just don't think that putting a bunch of drops of ammonia in a aquarium and waiting 6 weeks really teaches you anything other than how to put ammonia in a tank to cycle it. All the mistakes come after fish are added, and the same mistakes will be made either way.

While I mostly agree with you, there is something sort of valuable in this exercise; learning to be reasonably meticulous. Even people who do a mess of research don't really "get" the effort required. I mean, it's not life-ending, but it's a lot of stuff. I learned to want my tank to succeed by giving a flip about how the cycle was progressing. I honestly think that had I begun with a fish-in cycle, I'd have damaged/murdered a bunch of swimmers and possibly would have been put off by that. The process of going through with that whole exercise, in my opinion, will only help when the real headaches crop up.


I would probably still lean to cycling without fish for irrational, philosophical reasons, but now it really doesn't matter since I have a working tank...heh. I can seed the next one.