Offered Mature Water For New Tank

Nata
  • #1
Hi, I’m getting a second hand aquarium tomorrow as been told on his site my aquarium is too small for my 4 danios and am buying a 58, 30, 40 which I believe is a 70 litre tank....

My neighbour has several aquariums in his garden and does everything naturally with no treatments and is offering me 50litres if mature water within is quite green. Should I accept or not?

My ammonia levels were 6.0 and have now done 4 water changes so it’s much better but obviously my tank is nowhere near cycled yet. Would this help?
 

Advertisement
Demeter
  • #2
No, definitely not. Only a tiny percentage of the good bacteria is in the water column. If anything I'd go for established filter media to seed the new filter. Use all the media from your other tank's filter as well, there must be some bacteria on it by now, just not enough to cycle completely right off the bat. Keep up on water changes though.
 

Advertisement
toeknee
  • #3
I wouldn't. The water holds very little beneficial bacteria. It could have bad bacteria, parasites, worms etc.....not worth it.
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Ok thanks. It’s very complicated looking after fish..... I’ll politely say no then

Are my fish going to be ok being transferred into a larger tank of water that hasn’t cycled even if I add the water from my current tank and the filter? Also, is my current filter which is a minI elite going to be ok for this 70 litre tank? And how should I go about moving the fish into the new tank to avoid stress?
 
jdhef
  • #5
Water does not cycle. it is actually your filter media that cycles. Then the two bacteria living in the filter media convert the ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates as the water passes thru the filter media.

Putting the filter media from your old tank may help with cycling, but the old tank isn't fully cycled yet...correct? So it may not real helpful.

But I wouldn't think your old filter will work with the larger tank. You'll need a larger filter, since you need to move more water thru the filter. Ideally, you want a filter that will do 10 times your tank volume per hour. So a 70l tank is approx. 18 gallons, so you would want a filter that will move 180g per hour.
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
Thank you for your help and that’s correct, I cycled in 1 week before getting the fish and have now done 4 water changes due to high ammonia.

How long should I cycle my new tank for before adding my fish?
 

Advertisement



jdhef
  • #7
I highly recommend you read up on the nitrogen cycle:
Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

As you will see, the cycling process is a biological process that starts as soon as ammonia is present in the water (such as when you add fish). There is no set time for the cycle to complete, but generally without using a bacteria additive, it will take 6-8 weeks.

If you are cycling with fish, and are not using a bacteria additive, you need to perform regular water changes with a water conditioner called Prime. A standard dose of Prime will detox up to 1ppm of ammonia and/or nitrite for 24 hours. So the idea is to perform frequent, and large enough water changes so that ammonia and/or nitrite are never above 1ppm, this way your fish stay safe from exposure.

So basically, you can test your water every 24 hours.
If ammonia+nitrite is less than 1ppm, add enough Prime directly to the tank to treat the entire tank volume.
If ammonia+nitrite is equal to, or greater than 1ppm, perform a 50% water change using enough Prime to treat entire tank volume.
Keep this up until tank cycles (0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites and some nitrates)
 
DoubleDutch
  • #8
Ask him for some matured filtermedia instead.
 
mattgirl
  • #9
I know it seems like it is complicated but it really isn't. Cycling a tank is merely giving it time to grow bacteria. Most of the bacteria will grow on your filter media. Media refers to the filter pad inside the filter housing or in some cases bio-balls or ceramic noodles. Media refers to anything one adds to their tanks filtering system specifically for bacteria to grow on.

The bacteria does grow on all the surfaces inside ones tank but the majority of it grows on the filter media. That bacteria growing on the filter media is the cycle. If you can get some filter media from your neighbor it will seed your filter with bacteria and will jump start your cycle. As a matter of fact with a big enough piece of it you should actually get an almost instant cycle. There may be a tiny bit if the bacteria free floating in the water but that amount is negligible so getting water from an established tank wouldn't do much if any good.

Remember the cycle simply put just means you have enough bacteria in the tank to process the ammonia being produced by the fish. Once there is enough bacteria to eat the ammonia the bacteria eats it almost instantly so once cycled you will never see ammonia or nitrites again. That is why you read that a cycled tank should read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. There isn't a bacteria that uses the nitrates for food so they have to be removed with water changes.

The cycle is a never ending circle. As long as that circle isn't broken the cycle will continue to protect the fish from the ammonia they produce. Ammonia=nitrites=nitrates. water changes remove nitrates.

You will need a bigger filter for your bigger tank. I know a lot of folks recommend Aqua-Clear filters but I have had very good luck with Pen-Plax Cascade HOB (hang on back) filters. I run 2 HOB's on my 55 gallon tank but with the less than 20 gallon you are upgrading to one will do it just as long as it is rated for an at least 50 gallon tank. May seem like overkill but you can never have too much filtration.

You have started growing bacteria in the small tank so go ahead and move everything including fish and water on over to the bigger tank. Danios are pretty tough little guys so it shouldn't upset them much when you move them. There isn't any bacteria in the water but it is the water they are used to so go ahead and move it too.

I do hope this has simplified the cycling process for you. If not please feel free to ask questions.
 
DoubleDutch
  • #10
I know it seems like it is complicated but it really isn't. Cycling a tank is merely giving it time to grow bacteria. Most of the bacteria will grow on your filter media. Media refers to the filter pad inside the filter housing or in some cases bio-balls or ceramic noodles. Media refers to anything one adds to their tanks filtering system specifically for bacteria to grow on.

The bacteria does grow on all the surfaces inside ones tank but the majority of it grows on the filter media. That bacteria growing on the filter media is the cycle. If you can get some filter media from your neighbor it will seed your filter with bacteria and will jump start your cycle. As a matter of fact with a big enough piece of it you should actually get an almost instant cycle. There may be a tiny bit if the bacteria free floating in the water but that amount is negligible so getting water from an established tank wouldn't do much if any good.

Remember the cycle simply put just means you have enough bacteria in the tank to process the ammonia being produced by the fish. Once there is enough bacteria to eat the ammonia the bacteria eats it almost instantly so once cycled you will never see ammonia or nitrites again. That is why you read that a cycled tank should read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. There isn't a bacteria that uses the nitrates for food so they have to be removed with water changes.

The cycle is a never ending circle. As long as that circle isn't broken the cycle will continue to protect the fish from the ammonia they produce. Ammonia=nitrites=nitrates. water changes remove nitrates.

You will need a bigger filter for your bigger tank. I know a lot of folks recommend Aqua-Clear filters but I have had very good luck with Pen-Plax Cascade HOB (hang on back) filters. I run 2 HOB's on my 55 gallon tank but with the less than 20 gallon you are upgrading to one will do it just as long as it is rated for an at least 50 gallon tank. May seem like overkill but you can never have too much filtration.

You have started growing bacteria in the small tank so go ahead and move everything including fish and water on over to the bigger tank. Danios are pretty tough little guys so it shouldn't upset them much when you move them. There isn't any bacteria in the water but it is the water they are used to so go ahead and move it too.

I do hope this has simplified the cycling process for you. If not please feel free to ask questions.
When the OP has read your post his tank will be cycled mattgirl hahahahaha
 

Advertisement



Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
Thanks so much for your advice. I am aware of the cycle process but I’d cycled my tank for 1 week and told by pets at home it was fine, got my fish and then my ammonia levels hit 6.0. People in here told me I needed a larger tank for my fish so I’m just wondering how I go about moving them from my current tank to another uncycled tank?

And any advice on products to clean a second hand tank would be appreciated too, thanks
 
DoubleDutch
  • #11
And any advice on products to clean a second hand tank would be appreciated too, thanks
Vinegar
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
When the OP has read your post his tank will be cycled mattgirl hahahahaha

Thanks so much, that is an amazing explanation!


Thank you
 
DoubleDutch
  • #14

Advertisement



Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
I know it seems like it is complicated but it really isn't. Cycling a tank is merely giving it time to grow bacteria. Most of the bacteria will grow on your filter media. Media refers to the filter pad inside the filter housing or in some cases bio-balls or ceramic noodles. Media refers to anything one adds to their tanks filtering system specifically for bacteria to grow on.

The bacteria does grow on all the surfaces inside ones tank but the majority of it grows on the filter media. That bacteria growing on the filter media is the cycle. If you can get some filter media from your neighbor it will seed your filter with bacteria and will jump start your cycle. As a matter of fact with a big enough piece of it you should actually get an almost instant cycle. There may be a tiny bit if the bacteria free floating in the water but that amount is negligible so getting water from an established tank wouldn't do much if any good.

Remember the cycle simply put just means you have enough bacteria in the tank to process the ammonia being produced by the fish. Once there is enough bacteria to eat the ammonia the bacteria eats it almost instantly so once cycled you will never see ammonia or nitrites again. That is why you read that a cycled tank should read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. There isn't a bacteria that uses the nitrates for food so they have to be removed with water changes.

The cycle is a never ending circle. As long as that circle isn't broken the cycle will continue to protect the fish from the ammonia they produce. Ammonia=nitrites=nitrates. water changes remove nitrates.

You will need a bigger filter for your bigger tank. I know a lot of folks recommend Aqua-Clear filters but I have had very good luck with Pen-Plax Cascade HOB (hang on back) filters. I run 2 HOB's on my 55 gallon tank but with the less than 20 gallon you are upgrading to one will do it just as long as it is rated for an at least 50 gallon tank. May seem like overkill but you can never have too much filtration.

You have started growing bacteria in the small tank so go ahead and move everything including fish and water on over to the bigger tank. Danios are pretty tough little guys so it shouldn't upset them much when you move them. There isn't any bacteria in the water but it is the water they are used to so go ahead and move it too.

I do hope this has simplified the cycling process for you. If not please feel free to ask questions.

Thank you this is an amazing explanation!
 
mattgirl
  • #16
Thanks so much, that is an amazing explanation!
I know I went into a lot of detail but wanted to cover all bases and hopefully not leave any of the things that one would assume every one knows out of it. Assuming often leads to confusion

BTW: I am a firm believer in using bleach to clean everything involved with my tanks. Bleach not only cleans but also will kill any of the bad stuff that could be hanging around. Once cleaned with bleach and rinsed really really well everything gets a good final rinse in treated water. Our water conditioners are designed to neutralize chlorine so it will also neutralize bleach.

Whether you use either bleach or choose to use vinegar just be sure to rinse until you think it is good enough and then rinse some more. The one thing you don't want to use is anything that contains soap. Some folks do recommend using Dawn dish liquid but personally I would never use it.
 
PubliusVA
  • #17
Conventional wisdom is that tank water holds a negligible proportion of your bacteria colony. There was a recent thread here where differing opinions were expressed, including a comment by Minnowette citing peer-reviewed studies finding substantial beneficial bacteria in the water column. At the same time lots of people do massive water changes without crashing their cycle. I don't know what to think, but I would like to see some rigorous experiments done in an aquarium context (Minnowette's sources relate to natural environments).
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
I know I went into a lot of detail but wanted to cover all bases and hopefully not leave any of the things that one would assume every one knows out of it. Assuming often leads to confusion

BTW: I am a firm believer in using bleach to clean everything involved with my tanks. Bleach not only cleans but also will kill any of the bad stuff that could be hanging around. Once cleaned with bleach and rinsed really really well everything gets a good final rinse in treated water. Our water conditioners are designed to neutralize chlorine so it will also neutralize bleach.

Whether you use either bleach or choose to use vinegar just be sure to rinse until you think it is good enough and then rinse some more. The one thing you don't want to use is anything that contains soap. Some folks do recommend using Dawn dish liquid but personally I would never use it.

Amazing thanks! I’d prefer to use bleach as it cleans very well so if you think it’s safe enough as long as I rinse then I’ll do that.

I actually researched about fish and tanks for 3 weeks prior to getting them, online, books and went to the library too but when it’s something new your learning it doesn’t all come naturally to you and I’m obviously new at encountering the different problems along the way so nice that you have taken the time to be thorough with me. I really appreciate it.
 

Advertisement



mattgirl
  • #19
Amazing thanks! I’d prefer to use bleach as it cleans very well so if you think it’s safe enough as long as I rinse then I’ll do that.

I actually researched about fish and tanks for 3 weeks prior to getting them, online, books and went to the library too but when it’s something new your learning it doesn’t all come naturally to you and I’m obviously new at encountering the different problems along the way so nice that you have taken the time to be thorough with me. I really appreciate it.
Just be sure the bleach you use is just bleach. I know some of them have other ingredients in them to make them smell better or not at all and I don't trust those other ingredients anywhere near my aquarium. I have actually used bleach for my tanks, deco and equipment ever since I got into this hobby many many years ago and have never had a problem doing so. One just has to pay attention to what they are doing and then rinse well.

I have never used vinegar but then I really dislike the smell of it so avoid it as much as possible

One can research for forever and still not know everything. That is the beauty of this forum. I have learned a lot and am still learning something new almost daily by spending time here.
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
Just be sure the bleach you use is just bleach. I know some of them have other ingredients in them to make them smell better or not at all and I don't trust those other ingredients anywhere near my aquarium. I have actually used bleach for my tanks, deco and equipment ever since I got into this hobby many many years ago and have never had a problem doing so. One just has to pay attention to what they are doing and then rinse well.

I have never used vinegar but then I really dislike the smell of it so avoid it as much as possible

One can research for forever and still not know everything. That is the beauty of this forum. I have learned a lot and am still learning something new almost daily by spending time here.

Thanks again, I just didn’t want anyone to think I just bought some fish and stick them in a tank without giving it any thought, I did and unfortunately still ended up with problems but my ammonia levels seem to have dropped now so am hoping things are getting better and my fish don’t die. They seem happy and look healthy except for the fact one keeps bullying the other 3 but I think it’s because I need a minimum of 6 danios so will do that when I feel confident the water is fine. Should I add a further 2 more at once or one at a time?
 
Fanatic
  • #21
There's no way that water could be the part that cycles, because every time you do a water change, you'd be dumping beneficial bacteria down the drain.
 
mattgirl
  • #22
Thanks again, I just didn’t want anyone to think I just bought some fish and stick them in a tank without giving it any thought, I did and unfortunately still ended up with problems but my ammonia levels seem to have dropped now so am hoping things are getting better and my fish don’t die. They seem happy and look healthy except for the fact one keeps bullying the other 3 but I think it’s because I need a minimum of 6 danios so will do that when I feel confident the water is fine. Should I add a further 2 more at once or one at a time?
That thought never crossed my mind. I know it is hard to know what to do when something happens and we don't know what to do about it. I am really glad you came here.

I would go ahead and add both of them at the same time once the tank stabilizes and hopefully having 2 more will give the bully an attitude adjustment.
 

Advertisement



Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #23
That thought never crossed my mind. I know it is hard to know what to do when something happens and we don't know what to do about it. I am really glad you came here.

I would go ahead and add both of them at the same time once the tank stabilizes and hopefully having 2 more will give the bully an attitude adjustment.

Thank you I’m really pleased I joined this site too as makes me feel more confident.
 
mattgirl
  • #24
Thank you I’m really pleased I joined this site too as makes me feel more confident.
Please stick around and give us updates. We really do care and want you to be as successful as is humanly possible.
 
PubliusVA
  • #25
There's no way that water could be the part that cycles, because every time you do a water change, you'd be dumping beneficial bacteria down the drain.
Or it could be true that you're dumping beneficial bacteria down the drain, but the remaining portion of the colony (in the filter and substrate) is sufficient to handle the bioload of your tank, at least with a few hours of recovery time.
 
Nata
  • Thread Starter
  • #26
Conventional wisdom is that tank water holds a negligible proportion of your bacteria colony. There was a recent thread here where differing opinions were expressed, including a comment by Minnowette citing peer-reviewed studies finding substantial beneficial bacteria in the water column. At the same time lots of people do massive water changes without crashing their cycle. I don't know what to think, but I would like to see some rigorous experiments done in an aquarium context (Minnowette's sources relate to natural environments).
just read the thread and its very interesting. I never realised how interesting I'd find this all to be : )
 
Inactive User
  • #27
There was a recent thread here where differing opinions were expressed, including a comment by Minnowette citing peer-reviewed studies finding substantial in the water column.

My post in that thread was mostly to clear up the misconception that nitrifying bacteria can't live in the water column: there seems to be a widely believed myth that beneficial bacteria aren't motile (that is, capable of independent movement without water currents).

As for whether it's the case that tank water is rich in bacteria: I think there's some, but not a lot compared to what's in the filter. The study conducted by LI et al. (2018) was done at the Yellow River, and the authors noted that the turbulence of the ecosystem results in the silt substrate being constantly mixed with the water column. In addition, most sources which describe nitrifying bacteria motility explain it as a response to oxygen-limited environments: they secrete nitrogen bubbles to move to environments with a higher oxygen content. Tanks, with sufficient aeration, are generally high in total dissolved oxygen. As for whether they are motile in other contexts, I'm unsure.

Would adding a lot of tank water instant cycle? I doubt it. Would it help to move the process along? It should.
 
PubliusVA
  • #28
Would adding a lot of tank water instant cycle? I doubt it. Would it help to move the process along? It should.
Which, I think, reflects the fact that cycling is a matter of degree. I.e. it's relative to the bioload you expect the bacteria colony to support. When someone asks "is my tank cycled," it invites the question of "cycled for what?" Fully stocking the tank all at once or gradually adding a few fish at a time?
 

Similar Aquarium Threads

Replies
29
Views
3K
Jaysee
Replies
4
Views
775
Al913
Replies
22
Views
47K
mosin360
Replies
9
Views
547
Wraithen
Replies
12
Views
1K
notyocheez
Advertisement







Advertisement



Top Bottom