NTD in QT?

Hey all... so my 3 neon tetras have been in QT for 3 weeks. For the first 2 weeks I treated with PraziPro. I was going to release them in their 20 gallon monday however I've noticed some white patches on one of my neons. Is it Neon Tetra Disease?

 

weird. Is it fuzzy? that almost looks like a fungus...

 

It didn't look fuzzy. It's more like hes missing scales or they turned white I think.

 

Looking closely its almost like he got stuck on the bottom of that plant and rubbed raw. But if that was the case it would be red and would think that would be the case for scale loss . Maybe an albino gene showing... never heard of an alb neon but whose to say it doesn't exist

 

Though NTD is very rare and does show some other symptoms be careful. I doubt it is but White parts in the red part of the fish could mean NTD. Keep it in the qt (all three) and see what happens. Albino genes are recessive so they won't appear partly in animals. Could be false NTD = columnaris bacteria which is more likely.

 

DoubleDutch I was actually just guessing they even could have a recessive albino gene, I actually assumed they didn't .. now I have to go look for some if they even exist. I have seen some animals show partial alb on part of their body sooooo..

And agree with you. Keep them all qted till it either clears up or...

 

Funny thing is that most partly white animals show dark eyes (not red). Those are called leucism.
I can be wrong but I doubt there are animals that are partly albino.

 

I was using albino as a general term. Since most people don't understand it as lack or loss of pigment. I have seen a few that have loss of pigment in a small area. Yes technically not an albino, but its how most people think. But we are way off track..
TokyoDreamy I hope your little fishy gets better.

 

I was using albino as a general term. Since most people don't understand it as lack or loss of pigment. I have seen a few that have loss of pigment in a small area. Yes technically not an albino, but its how most people think. But we are way off track..
TokyoDreamy I hope your little fishy gets better.

I got it !

 

Would more pics or another video help any? I'm not really sure what to do. And I was so excited to put all 3 in the tank monday... poo. They were all doing so well! But I just noticed that the two other neons have 1 white spot on one of their fins. Great... thank Neptune for QT! I haven't seen them rubbing on anything so I'm not sure if its beginning stages of ich? I mean I know other diseases can have white spots.
CindiL if my memory serves me correctly you know about columnaris?

 

Neons can show white edges in their fins. Are those you see edges or real spots.

How is the one behaving having the larger spot?

 

Neons can show white edges in their fins. Are those you see edges or real spots.

How is the one behaving having the larger spot?

Actual spots. Like ich spots. But only 1 on the two neons and only 1 fin.

The other one I noticed maybe two or three days ago?

 

I had a neon with NTD and first he separated himself away from the others, faded in color and got lumps you could actually see under the skin, eventually the spine curved and I euthanized. Somehow it did not spread.

Yes I had columnaris go through my tank a couple months ago and treated different things up to a month ago since its been gone. There are four strains with columnaris and you'll see different or more symptoms the less virulent the strain.

I can tell you if its NTD, its not treatable as far as I know and if you start seeing any bumps under the skin to euthanize immediately. I treated columnaris with kanamycin flakes first which seemed to help most but not all, nitrofurazone in the water for a couple of treatments and then Maracyn II (minocycline) for two weeks. That combination worked. The treatment recommended most often is kanaplex and nitrofurazone which is in Furan 2.

The white patches will not be fuzzy. If you see threads or fuzz that usually represents saprolegenia.

See if this helps:

 

I tried. One of the neons is being a bully and chasing the other two.
I didn't see the white spots on the other two neons... so I'll be doing another water change tonight.

 

Update:

So now it's happening to another one. The original neon has it on both sides but the new neon only has it on 1 side. The third neon is still constantly chasing and nipping the other two. What a bully...

I got a pretty decent video. Any ideas? CindiL not sure if this helps identify anything?

 

Did you start any treatment yet? The video is super tiny and won't let me go to full screen so hard to tell.

I would be treating with antibiotics. If you don't see lumps under the skin its probably not NTD and most likely columnaris like DoubleDutch suggested.

I'd treat asap. I gave the meds up above. ^^

 

Did you start any treatment yet? The video is super tiny and won't let me go to full screen so hard to tell.

I would be treating with antibiotics. If you don't see lumps under the skin its probably not NTD and most likely columnaris like DoubleDutch suggested.

I'd treat asap. I gave the meds up above. ^^

Here try the youtube link instead. I took out the front part so hopefully it will be a link instead of embeded.

youtu.be/fAApLuxo7uo

I have not started treatment yet, I'll have to order flakes via amazon prime. I've been super busy getting ready for graduation yesterday that it was tough enough to do 3 water changes beforehand. I'm just upset it took about 3 weeks to show these symptoms. They looked so healthy before

 

Sorry didn't work. What are you graduating from? Congratulations

I'd be treating with kanaplex to start out with.

 

Sorry didn't work. What are you graduating from? Congratulations

I'd be treating with kanaplex to start out with.

You'll have to add in the https : / / stuff. I can't post that part or it will embed it.

Thanks CindiL ! I actually graduated in September with a BFA in Digital Photography but I just got to walk.

I ordered:
kanamycin medicated flakes (arrives june 27-30)
Maracyn 2 (2 day)
Furan 2 (2 day)

Should I also order the other one? That one is by seachem right? I looked at it and was a bit confused how it worked.

And if you could let me know how long to dose and what to dose first that'd be great! I've only ever treated ich before... so this is all new!

 

Nice!

No, if you're going to use the kanamycin medicated flakes then I wouldn't treat with kanaplex. I did two weeks of the flakes, 10 days of the maracyn 2 and four days of the furan 2. I did my normal weekly water changes.

I would leave the furan 2 for last if they're not better by then. Its just them in the tank right?

 

Correct! 3 neons in a 10 gallon QT

The flakes come in last. Should I wait for them to come in or start the other treatments first?

 

I would start the maracyn 2 as soon as you get it

Make sure to remove carbon if you have it.

 

No carbon in my QT just 2 large sponges.

So you're saying maracyn 2 for 10 days and furan 2 for 4 days. Should I be feeding the medicated flakes during the meds or don't mix?

 

Honestly I'm not sure, I am thinking its ok to feed the medicated flakes alongside the Maracyn 2 but I not positive on that.

Maybe DoubleDutch knows?

 

Honestly I'm not sure, I am thinking its ok to feed the medicated flakes alongside the Maracyn 2 but I not positive on that.

Maybe DoubleDutch knows?

Sorry. I am not familiar with those meds.

 

Hmmm... is there a number I could call to ask? I mean I'd rather get an answer from the manufacturer than just guess and take a chance.

 

Why do you want to use two meds at the same time?

 

tokiodreamy I have a contraindication list I'll find.

Since Maracyn 2 is absorbed through the skin making it an effective antibiotic I don't think I'd treat as the same time as the flakes.

I would do the 10 days of Maracyn 2 and the 2-4 days of Furan 2 at the same time (I think the treatment is 2 days or 4 days and you can do it twice) which can be used at the same time, and then based on their symptoms (or lack thereof), and after a large water change start the flakes. You may not need them but they are good to have on hand.

The Furan 2 will turn your water green (just fyi)
I think large water changes in between treatment periods is always a good idea.

 

Why do you want to use two meds at the same time?

Keep in mind I'm new to anything else besides ich and finrot so my thought process is that 1 is a flake food and 1 is a water treatment. Not sure if they do the same thing or if its good to overlap. Still learning all this med stuff

Also this is my first QT and I see it's going rather smoothly...

 

I have a contraindication list I'll find.

Since Maracyn 2 is absorbed through the skin making it an effective antibiotic I don't think I'd treat as the same time as the flakes.

I would do the 10 days of Maracyn 2 and the 2-4 days of Furan 2 at the same time (I think the treatment is 2 days or 4 days and you can do it twice) which can be used at the same time, and then based on their symptoms (or lack thereof), and after a large water change start the flakes. You may not need them but they are good to have on hand.

The Furan 2 will turn your water green (just fyi)
I think large water changes in between treatment periods is always a good idea.

So both furan 2 and maracyn 2 at the same time? And I'll keep doing weekly water changes of 50%? Sorry I'm not exactly sure what you meant by in between treatment periods. Did you mean do a water change between doses?

 

Look at the back of the box.... I think Maracyn 2 initial treatment is 5 days? I can't remember. If so, I would do the five days followed by a water change and then another 5 days. And yes, its a common combination of either Maracyn 2 or Kanaplex and Furan 2 (nitrofurazone). You can dose the Furan 2 anytime during treatment.

If you want you can start out with just the maracyn 2 and then if they're not better after the first treatment period, add in the Furan 2 with the second treatment period.

 

I'll probably do the last option since I know treatments can be stressful. Plus it has only been getting worse.

I put in a tank divider since the 1 could not stop bullying the sick 2. I didn't want to leave him in a breeder. I did notice that they either have bumps or their bellies were just large after eating. I looked for clove oil just in case but couldn't find it. I'll have to try Walmart today. They carry it online but I'm not sure about in store. Where did you get yours? It just needs to be pure clove oil right?

 

Oh I'm sorry they're getting worse. The lumps under the skin will just get worse if its NTD and the meds won't do you any good. You were SO smart to QT

I bought mine on-line a few years ago and yes it needs to be pure clove oil, or mine says clove bud oil. Small bottle. Any health food stores around you? they might carry it.

Kind of ironic, I used to love clove oil gum when I was a kid and I loved the smell of cloves. Now I only think of dying fish when I get it out. Ugh

 

Could you place a pic?

 

I'm not sure if whole foods would carry it? And if they do its probably overpriced.
If not I'll order it online but I hope I can find it near me so I don't have to wait during shipping. Maybe I can find a free 1 day via amazon prime?
CindiL that's so sad... I'm sorry. I'm glad I did a QT. Stock has been real bad lately and I've had nothing but bad luck from multiple sources.
DoubleDutch I will def take a pic after work. I might be able to on my lunch break if my amazon order came in. I turned off the light yesterday to hopefully destress them and I had to do another emergency w/c on my shrimp QT this morning so I wasn't able to look at their progress this morning.

 

I went home on my lunch break to find that the 2 neons were in fact bloated after feeding yesterday and they were not at all bumpy today. They were swimming much better and only have the white patches. I think having them separated from the bully has helped their health.

I got the two meds in the mail today and have did the first dose for Maracyn 2. I was also going to dose Furan 2 since they were not as bad, but I read on the box to remove ALL filter media and that it can throw the cycle? CindiL any exp with this?

 

I had zero cycle issues when I used it.......and I did not remove my filter media though it did turn it all green.

 

Well I'm fixin to go gravel-less today, I had to rehome my 2 bigfish so these other 2 (Booster and Good) will b xtra happy. I'll put pics in a moment you know before/after.

 

They are Booster and Grod,not good.

 

Oh no, bad news Booster did not make it. I'm totally upset, jeez what a terrible learning experience. I really liked little Booster. Prayers for him.