Nothing but dramas in my new 85G! Fungas and other Disease!

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Jeffcameron, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    I'm getting really frustrated at the moment with my new 85G (Thought it was 90 at first but the dimensions calculate 85G).

    I originally bought it with the intention of having Angels but 7 weeks later I still have no angels. The tank came with a single Rainbow that I took from previous owner who didn't want it. I thought I'd get him some mates first as Rainbows are schooling fish but thats where my problems started. 3 new Rainbows were added when tank finished cycling (seeded from my other tank). I noticed when I got home that one of the new Rainbows had a lump protruding from its body that I didn't notice in the store. Foolishly I just let it go to see what would happen. 2 weeks later there appeared to be no problems, that is, lump stayed the same and everything seemed fine with all fish so I bought 3 coreys then another 3 a week later. I then noticed that my Rainbows were developing what appeared to be cotton mouth! Also one other Rainbow had a round red mark on its body.

    I took both Rainbows (one with original lump and one with new red mark) back to LFS for help. The owner confirmed cotton mouth and said it looked like they also had some form of fungal infection. He gave me 20 tablets and a bag of salt to treat my tank. Not sure what the tablets were but he instructed me to add the salt and tablets in two installments 3 days apart. Well it's been a week now and the cotton mouth appears to be getting better (wasn't that bad to begin with) but the lump has not improved at all and the red mark on the other rainbow has turned into a pimple looking sore.

    I know Coreys don't like salt which is probably why 2 died a day after adding salt as the rest of water parametres were normal. So now I don't know what to do. I'm going back to LFS tomorrow. Does it sound like I got good advice and should I continue to do what the LFS owner says or is he way off?

    All of the rainbows behave normally and eat fine. They don't appear stressed. As for the remaining Coreys they seem ok but they are quite still most of the time. Not sure if that's normal.

    Oh and to top it all off I transferred a Gourami from my 20G who was getting bullied and she was thriving but yesterday I noticed she had three tiny black dots on her body. From what I've seen in pics it looks like it could possibly be intitial stages of Black ich!? Appears very happy and healthy though.

    Argh!! I'm so frustrated and don't know what to do! Please help.
     
  2. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    Jeff, you desperately need to set up a quarantine tank, especially with such a large tank. It will end up with enough fish that a catastrophe could get really expensive.

    What are your water parameters? What are the tablets the lfs gave you, can you call and ask? Can you take a pic of the black dots on the gourami and the lump on the rainbow?

    I don't know how to help you, I am just trying to anticipate the questions others will ask.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    Yes I'll take photos and post in about an hour. Water is Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate around 15-20. I do 20% water change weekly at the moment and due for water change tomorrow. Temp 28 degrees celcius. Don't know about hardness. I did buy a quarantine tank but found out it was too small...only 5G.
     




  4. Jaysee

    Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    i agree with meenu - quarantine tanks are essential.

    i thought black ich was a marine parasite...

    i dont ever use salt. large regular water changes are the best treatment, IMO. thats why a 10 and a 20L are important to have for quarantine tanks. a 10 is good for small fish, but a 20 long is good for groups of fish.

    also, its much easier to do daily 50% changes on a 10 gallon tank than it is an 85.
     
  5. Aquarist

    Aquarist Fishlore Legend Member

  6. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    I've attached some pics of my sick fish. You can see the two rainbows one with a huge red lump and the other with a red lump developing. The Gourami pics you can see a black spot on the tail and rear of body and in the other pic two black spots below dorsal fin on back half of body.

    None of them actually behave like they are sick. In fact they seem quite happy but obviously something is wrong.

    Oh and thanks for the help so far everyone :)
     

    Attached Files:

  7. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    And should I quarantine these infected fish in my 5G or will that just seal their fate as it's too small? I'm also concerned about the other healthy fish.

    Off to the LFS tomorrow morning so should I continue to take the owners advice on treatment? I know it's hard to give advice as I'm not sure what tablets he initially gave me. WIll find out tomorrow Meenu.

    So Jaysee is salt not recommended? Should I discontinue adding salt?

    And thanks for the link on Black ICH Ken.
     
  8. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    I know you asked Jaysee, but I'm going to tackle this one. Salt use is pretty contested in freshwater aquaria. The salt acts as an irrirant, forcing the fish to overproduce slime coat by stressing them. Some people who have been in the hobby for many years swear by it. However, newer wisdom seems to be that adding a product like StressCoat+ will also help with the slime coat without irritating the fish.

    It's a personal choice. Most of the people on this site don't seem to use it at all, me included. A few use it for ich only, and some newer members use it regularly, it seems. I say do some research on this site and others and then make up your mind if you want to continue it.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    Thanks Meenu. I had no idea how it worked. The guy in the shop related it to humans getting a cut and washing it with saline! Starting to think not to trust him but he is helping me at no charge so far. I guess he feels guilty he sold me infected fish!
     
  10. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    It is hard to figure out which information is correct. Frustrating, huh? I think you have to research well to make your decisions, including talking to a trusted fish store employee, asking questions here, and also searching on the main FL website (and others) for articles. Even here, people have varying opinions on certain things. It makes me think that for some things, there is no right or wrong answer, just what is right or wrong for your tank.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    Yes I am definitely finding people have differing opinions which makes it confusing to say the least. I never thought keeping fish would be so challenging. The biggest question I guess I have right now is should I get the infected fish out of the DT and into the 5G or wait untill I can get hold of a bigger quarantine tank? I'll try and get a second hand one tmw.

    Oh and any thoughts on what they have based on what you can see in the pics?
     
  12. Meenu

    Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    I don't have enough experience with fish disease to answer the questions.

    As far as quarantining, I am inclined to think that at this point, all the fish should be treated, as they have all been exposed. But really, this is just a guess.
     
  13. A

    AlyeskaGirl Fishlore VIP Member

    I would consider to q-tine them, it doesn't have to be a tank, you can get a rubbermaid tub that is bigger then your 5g to use as q-tine.

    As for the salt thing it is a personel choice but below I put a link to the pros and cons. It can be used but for short term use and as long as it is predisolved before you add to tank, especially for catfish. It's the crystals that burn if they come in contact with the fish to my understanding. Not to be used with soft water fish that come from the waters that have very low electrolytes like Angelfish and some Tetras. And it tends to raise the KH (hardness), another reason not to use it with soft water fish. I think that makes sense. lol The article explains it better. lol

     


    I really hope your fish get better soon.
     
  14. b

    bubblefish Valued Member Member

  15. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    That was a good article thanks AlyeskaGirl.

    I read the thread thanks Bubblefish. It does look a bit like that so I'll suggest that as well when I go in this morning to LFS.

    Well this morning the rainbow with the smaller red mark appears to be getting better. The sore in much less red and the pimple like bit in the middle is gone. The other rainbows lump is still big and the scales from the lump appear to be coming off. Is that a sign of healing or getting worse?

    Thanks for everyones help so far!
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    Just an update...

    Went to LFS this morning and told the owner what was happening. He told me to give the medication another week to do its thing before doing a water change. When I suggested a bacterial infection he said it very well could be but we need to give the fungal treatment time to work to eliminate that first. After a week if still no improvement on the lump then he said we can quarantine the Rainbow with the lump and treat with an anti-bacterial medication.

    As for the Black spots he said to monitor closely and if they get worse we my need to treat for Black ICH.

    I'm kicking myself that I forgot what the medication was called that is currently in my tank. They were tablets that were dissolved before putting in and it was something like Tri-Phos... used for treating fungus.

    He seems to know what he's talking about. I just hate waiting to see if things work and not knowing for sure how to help my fish!!
     
  17. Zenial

    Zenial Valued Member Member

    Ok Jeff, it's been a week. Has the fungal treatment shown any improvement? *crosses fingers*

    Hrmm... Judging by your related thread made 5 days from the above post, I'll assume the negative.

    It seems to be a very slow process; that it has taken a fair time for these lumps to grow, this makes me think it may be an ulcer, the scale lost at the peak of the swelling leaving red scarred tissue. Or was there redness without any scale loss?

    Good luck Jeff!
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    Hi Zenial. Thanks for the extra info. To answer your question... no the lump has not really improved nor the red mark on the other Rainbow. The only difference now is white specs of what appears to be a puss like substance around the lump. I went back to LFS this morning and got some Melafix to try for bacterial infection. So far I've only treated the tank for Fungas (Tri-Sulfa Tablets). I'll add Melafix per instructions for a week and see if that works then I'll look into your ulcer theory.

    I did a 40% water change before adding the Melafix.

    Oh and the Gourami still has the small Black spots. They don't appear to have gotten bigger nor infected any other fish yet.
     
  19. b

    bubblefish Valued Member Member

  20. OP
    OP
    Jeffcameron

    Jeffcameron Valued Member Member

    I'm getting really frustrated now! I've done 10 days of treatment using melafix but still no significant change to rainbows. I went to another LFS and the two guys in the store reckon my rainbows have ulcers and to get rid of them before they infect my other fish. Their advice was to save my money and knock them off because ulcers are too hard to treat.

    I'm very reluctant to kill them though because they seem quite happy and healthy. Both eat very well and swim around fine.

    So my new plan is to move them into my 20G to try one more time to treat them. I'll move the current fish from the 20G into the 85G and keep my fingers crossed there is nothing in the water in the 85G that will effect my other fish.

    I've read that betadine can be used on fish. Do people think that's worth a go on the rainbows? If so do you just dab it directly onto the wound?
     




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