Not Sure What Disease To Treat? Help

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Stacy Owens, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember

    Tank

    What is the water volume of the tank? 10g
    How long has the tank been running? Since early May
    Does it have a filter? HOB
    Does it have a heater? No
    What is the water temperature? temp stays between 74 and 78
    What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
    5 guppies(was 7), 2 pygmy corys, 6 neo shrimp, 4 nerites, and pest snails

    Maintenance
    How often do you change the water? about every 9-10 days
    How much of the water do you change? I usually get about 2.5 to 3 gallons
    What do you use to treat your water? Prime and I use Thrive
    Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I do both

    *Parameters - Very Important
    Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? yes
    What do you use to test the water? API master kit
    What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

    Ammonia: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 20-25
    pH: 7.4

    Feeding
    How often do you feed your fish? once a day
    How much do you feed your fish? a small pinch
    What brand of food do you feed your fish? bug bites
    Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? no

    Illness & Symptoms
    How long have you had this fish? Snails and 3 shrimp at the end of May, 2 pygmy corys were mid June. and guppies with the rest of the shrimp were July 3rd
    How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? About 2 days after I put them in the tank
    In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? flashing, 2 had stringy poo, hiding, clamped tails
    Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
    Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No they were fine
    How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Their coloring gets slightly pale and the sick ones hide, which I assumed was normal because the 2 females and the 2 smaller panda guppies were hiding from the 3 larger dragon guppies

    Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

    2 days after I got them I noticed one(dragon guppy) had stringy poop(white with a couple spots of tan) it stayed attached a few days. I assumed it was because I feed them the neos pellets that first day then switched to thicker flakes for 3 days, and finally the bug bites. Then a panda guppy had clamped fins got really pale but recovered, after the male with the stringy poop got kind of lethargic then died. A female started looking rough and floating at the surface but looked fine physically otherwise, she's still alive and swimming normal now. One of the other dragon guppies started with fin clamping and it got worse over 2 days, pale, lethargic, hiding then died yesterday. I looked at the dead bodies and saw no signs of anything except the clamping of the fins on the second one. I noticed last night the female that was sick but is better now has a white spot on her fin. And part of the back fin is missing on my pygmy cory

    I bought API General Cure, API fin and body cure, API E.M. Erythromycin, and kordon rapid-cure. I bought a 5 gallon last night to set up a quarantine tank if I have to. I'm not moving the shrimp or snails. I have extra media in the 10g and can use some of that tank water to set up the tank for a fast cycle. Which meds do I use? Do I treat the whole 10g or pull them out to treat them? I will probably add them back to the 10 G since I don't have any where to permanently set up the 5g and it's too small for long term. Also can I mix treatments?

    I forgot to add I pulled an aquarium decoration out because of peeling paint.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  2. MrBryan723

    MrBryan723Well Known MemberMember

    You can use hydrogen peroxide in tandem with most of these cures. Also alovera is pretty good to use in tandem with most treatments. As far as mixing medications I don't know. If you use H2O2 you need to turn off the filter for about an hour during the treatment, then you can turn it back on.(also look up how much to dose, usually around 1-2ml per L) Of course make sure you are removing any carbon from your filter with any of the treatments.
     
  3. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    If the fish show any physical problems (spots, growths, etc) I'd use the rapid-cure. But, I don't believe in using meds unless you have a good idea on what's going on. These fish could have been sick when you purchased them. What I would do first is keep water really clean and see if there are any improvements. When my fish act up, have a white spot, injury, etc. I always do water changes first sometimes paired with an antiseptic. If they worsen, that is when I bring in the meds. Here, it doesn't seem we know exactly what we're treating. If more fish start to show symptoms, then treatment may be a go. Getting pale and dying sounds like an internal thing, flashing and such sounds external. Were any of the fish breathing heavily and/or had red gills?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember


    Is that safe with neo shrimp, snails and corys though?

    There was some heavy breathing but I did not notice red gills. I'm trying to upload a few video clips of them.
     
  5. MrBryan723

    MrBryan723Well Known MemberMember

    Yes, H2O2 is shrimp safe. It will also add extra oxeygen to the water to help a little with labored breathing. It's a strong antibacterial and antifungal agent. Just make sure if you use it you turn off your filter for an hour or it will crash your cycle.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember

  7. CheshireKat

    CheshireKatWell Known MemberMember

    I think the fish were sick to begin with. Your shrimp haven't died or shown signs of illness, correct?

    2.5-3 gallons every 9-10 days might not be enough, especially right now while they're going through a rough transition and seem to be ill. I'd probably kick up the water changes to probably every other day if not every day to try to help keep the water clean, fresh, and healthy and give the fish a higher chance of healing/getting better.

    Have you tried feeding peas? I have a bag of frozen peas. At least one a week, I pop one or two in a tiny microwavable container with water (usually tank water, although I doubt it matters) and cook 'em for 30 seconds or so. Sometimes the shell pops off, otherwise I have to remove the shells. Then I dump out the water, cool the peas with a fan, and squish 'em up and feed them to my tanks. All my fish (including the bettas) enjoy peas, especially the platies and mollies, who need greens in their diet anyway. You can also do green beans, I believe. Peas are the traditional greens people recommend, so that's what I use despite despising peas myself. This not only gives them the "roughage" they need, but also helps their bowels and digestive system.
    I don't have any experience with guppies, but I'd imagine they're similar to platies and mollies, being livebearers and all.

    The others already provided input as to meds and treatment, so I just wanted to address a possible food situation. My platies and mollies all eat Bug Bites and Sera O-Nip tabs because one platy had clear, stringy poop (fish diarrhea) when eating flakes. I think his system just didn't fare well with that food; not sure if it was the brand, the ingredients, or the flake form, but after I stopped feeding it, that fish stopped having diarrhea and also seemed more colorful and shinier.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember


    Thanks for that info! I need to check my freezer, I know I have canned but with all the additives I would not add that.
     
  9. CheshireKat

    CheshireKatWell Known MemberMember

    I added more to my post; you got to it fast :emoji_sweat_smile:

    edit: also, I'd feed the corys something like an algae wafer. Maybe half a wafer to begin with, soak it in tank water for maybe 5 minutes first to soften it, and drop it in. The guppies probably would enjoy it too. See how they do with it. They might not know what it is at first.
    I've tried feeding spinach to my platies/mollies, but find it hard to chop it small enough for them to eat easily. Guppies probably have smaller mouths than they. Adding a whole leaf makes them think it's just another plant, but the bladder ("pest") snails enjoy eating it, and the corys might as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  10. OP
    OP
    Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember

    @FrostedFlakes @MrBryan723 @CheshireKat

    Just to be clear for me. Do a water change(I'll vacuum too) and use hydrogen peroxide. Plus the ich medicine. So I need to set up the emergency tank for the ich medicine because it is not invertabrae safe, but do it at half dose for the corys. I can use the water change water for the emergency tank once I allow it to settle right and mix with water. How long should I keep them in the emergency tank? Or should I say if it is ich how long till the ich dies in there without meds and hosts? And add a pea to their diet once a week. Plus the algae tab for my corys.
     
  11. hoseki

    hosekiValued MemberMember

    It looks like it's either parasite or worm infection. Likely because some newly added members are carrying them and been spreading around. If it is koi, I would treat it with BSDT followed with Prazi. Any bacterial medication alone may not work in this case. Not sure if shrimps can go along well with it. BSDT is some kind of Malachite Green & Formalin.

    Worth to try for Ich treatment. You may have to go through multiple treatments rather than 1 single treatment. Once you have the medication for a few days, observe if the flashing stops or the luster of the fish comes back or no more clamp fins. Continue observe them for 7 days and slowly mix 1 of your uninfected fish and observe them for another week. Some times the problem may come back and you have to treat them again. If after mixing for a week and no negative symptom pops up, you can slowly put them back.
    You may have to treat your whole tank in this case.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2019
  12. CheshireKat

    CheshireKatWell Known MemberMember

    When I had a platy with clamped fins, flashing, hiding at the bottom of the tank in the shadows, and not eating much, I just dosed the whole tank with General Cure and fed peas, and the next day, she was already improved. Finished the treatment as per the instructions and haven't had any problems since.

    The problem is that with no scientific way to determine the cause(s), such as taking samples and analyzing them, you're mostly using guesswork and other people's opinions and experiences. So you'll be getting conflicting and/or varied recommendations and information.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Stacy Owens

    Stacy OwensNew MemberMember

    When I had a platy with clamped fins, flashing, hiding at the bottom of the tank in the shadows, and not eating much, I just dosed the whole tank with General Cure and fed peas, and the next day, she was already improved. Finished the treatment as per the instructions and haven't had any problems since.

    The problem is that with no scientific way to determine the cause(s), such as taking samples and analyzing them, you're mostly using guesswork and other people's opinions and experiences. So you'll be getting conflicting and/or varied recommendations and information.[/QUOTE]

    I will do this and hydrogen peroxide. But I'm also setting up the emergency just in case I have to treat for ich later.
     
  14. FrostedFlakes

    FrostedFlakesWell Known MemberMember

    If you have to treat for ich you'd have to treat the entire tank. I really still don't see a need for starting treatment for anything yet (maybe I'm missing something?). One spot isn't really that big of a deal in my opinion. A lot of people say one spot could lead to many but unless there is at least like 2 or 3 I just give clean water. My goldies have little ailments occasionally and with good diet and clean water they recover nicely. It is very possible your new fish just didn't adjust well. Again, in just my opinion, if no fish seem to be immensely struggling, I'd give increased water changes a chance. Just my opinion. Also for the H2O2, I still can't see a need for that.
     
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