Not cycling for unknown reasons.

Charbel1011

Hello guys, i own waterbox 4820 72 gallons tank, its mid-heavy planted tank. Im trying to cycle it, but for some reason i cant. I added fritz fishless fuel ammonia and i rised it to 2ppm, i added a whole bottle of 4oz fritz turbo start 700 bacteria, didnt do nothing, i have no signs of notrite at all. So that was 5 days ago, in my head okay maybe its a spoiled bottle i bought from amazon, let me go to my LFS, and buy a new one same thing added it yesterday, tested today, and no signs for nitrite at all. I do have nitrate but thats because i dose liquid fertilizer that have it. Can u please help me guys get this cycle going?
 

nj278

Hi! Welcome to Fishlore.

My first thought is simply that it hasn't been long enough for you to see any nitrate. The bacteria are still multiplying.

Have you continued to add ammonia, or did you only do it once? You will need to dose ammonia regularly so that it stays at a constant 2ppm.

What test are you using?
 

Charbel1011

Hi! Welcome to Fishlore.

My first thought is simply that it hasn't been long enough for you to see any nitrate. The bacteria are still multiplying.

Have you continued to add ammonia, or did you only do it once? You will need to dose ammonia regularly so that it stays at a constant 2ppm.

What test are you using?
Like i mentioned the one im not saying its nitrite..nitrate i have because the liquid ferilizer im using that adds nitrate to the water. I know cycle takes time, but according to fritz their bacteria is super fast that you can add fish inmediatly, i know this can be false advertisement as no cycle that fast. But my friend, and other people cycled their tank in 24 hours to 1 week using that same fritz . I sent them an email, i hope i get a reply soon about this. To answer your question, i use API test kit. And no i added just once it was 2ppm, and now its like 0.50 idk how to it dropped.
 

GlennO

Bump the ammonia back up to 2ppm and keep monitoring. It can take 2-3 weeks for nitrites to appear even when using bottled bacteria which sometimes speeds it up, sometimes not.
 

KingOscar

Like i mentioned the one im not saying its nitrite..nitrate i have because the liquid ferilizer im using that adds nitrate to the water. I know cycle takes time, but according to fritz their bacteria is super fast that you can add fish inmediatly, i know this can be false advertisement as no cycle that fast. But my friend, and other people cycled their tank in 24 hours to 1 week using that same fritz . I sent them an email, i hope i get a reply soon about this. To answer your question, i use API test kit. And no i added just once it was 2ppm, and now its like 0.50 idk how to it dropped.
You don't have nitrite because it's only been 5 days. My fishless cycle took 10 days before I started to see nitrites and I used real, actual live beneficial bacterial from an established tank. I wouldn't expect anything in a bottle to be better than the real thing fresh from an established filter. I've read tests that show the bottle stuff doesn't work, but I'm open to new information.
 

nj278

Like i mentioned the one im not saying its nitrite..nitrate i have because the liquid ferilizer im using that adds nitrate to the water. I know cycle takes time, but according to fritz their bacteria is super fast that you can add fish inmediatly, i know this can be false advertisement as no cycle that fast. But my friend, and other people cycled their tank in 24 hours to 1 week using that same fritz . I sent them an email, i hope i get a reply soon about this. To answer your question, i use API test kit. And no i added just once it was 2ppm, and now its like 0.50 idk how to it dropped.
Whoops, sorry. I meant nitrite (autocorrect + my poor phone typing skills).

Your ammonia dropped because the bacteria is doing its job and converting it to nitrite (though not necessarily enough to be picked up on the test). That's why you need to keep dosing ammonia, so that the cycle can complete itself and the bacteria can keep multiplying so that you have enough beneficial bacteria to handle the bioload of your future tank inhabitants. Keep your ammonia level at 2ppm until the cycle is complete (at which point, it should be impossible for it to remain at 2ppm for any significant length of time).
 

GlennO

Your ammonia dropped because the bacteria is doing its job and converting it to nitrite (though not necessarily enough to be picked up on the test).
It's heavily planted. Plants will also absorb some ammonia & nitrite.
 

KingOscar

Whoops, sorry. I meant nitrite
That's the way I understood it. It's very easy to miss type that one letter.
 

mattgirl

Hello guys, i own waterbox 4820 72 gallons tank, its mid-heavy planted tank. Im trying to cycle it, but for some reason i cant. I added fritz fishless fuel ammonia and i rised it to 2ppm, i added a whole bottle of 4oz fritz turbo start 700 bacteria, didnt do nothing, i have no signs of notrite at all. So that was 5 days ago, in my head okay maybe its a spoiled bottle i bought from amazon, let me go to my LFS, and buy a new one same thing added it yesterday, tested today, and no signs for nitrite at all. I do have nitrate but thats because i dose liquid fertilizer that have it. Can u please help me guys get this cycle going?
welcome to Fishlore :)

Quite often when folks add bottled bacteria the tank skips the nitrite spike. Test for nitrates. Note the level. This will be the baseline reading caused by the ferts. Don't add any more. If the nitrates go up from your last test you will know the tank is producing them.

I have read some good reports on the effectiveness of the Turbo Start so you may be close to cycled. Add enough ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. Run the ammonia test after 24 hours. If it has dropped to or very close to zero we can assume the TS is working as it should. If it drops within 24 hours get it back up to 2ppm. Test for nitrates daily. If they go up you will know if the cycle is producing them. If they do I suspect you will not experience the nitrite spike.
 

Charbel1011

This is my results thjs morning, ammonia dropped from last week 2ppm, im very skeptical about adding more ammonia idk why, maybe afraid of another hair algae outbreak as the last onw im still recovering from, yes i have nitrare, but i believe thats because the liquid fertilizer im adding adds nitrate to the water. My PH was low this morning because of the co2 drop, and my very low KH but i fixed it after, and now my KH is 6.5

20220123_085037.jpg
 

nj278

This is my results thjs morning, ammonia dropped from last week 2ppm, im very skeptical about adding more ammonia idk why, maybe afraid of another hair algae outbreak as the last onw im still recovering from, yes i have nitrare, but i believe thats because the liquid fertilizer im adding adds nitrate to the water. My PH was low this morning because of the co2 drop, and my very low KH but i fixed it after, and now my KH is 6.5

20220123_085037.jpg
Thanks for the update. A low pH will stall your cycle. I don't know much about pH and KH, so can't really offer any advice, but your pH will need to be higher so your cycle can progress.

I know adding ammonia seems wrong, but it is exactly what your fish would be doing. Think of it like a cycle (which it is). You feed your fish (when you get them), which produce ammonia. This ammonia feeds the bacteria that produce nitrates, and these nitrates feed your plants. You don't have fish at the moment, so you need to be filling the place of the fish in order for your little "ecosystem" to function. Your bacteria will starve to death without ammonia to feed on, and then when you add the fish you will have to cycle that tank all over again.

Ammonia also should not contribute to algal problems I don't think. This is the result of an imbalance of nutrients or light, and often is just a new tank thing while phosphate levels and things are higher than your plants can utilize.
 

GlennO

I agree with the above, you need to add more ammonia. Bump it back up to 2ppm and then monitor how long it takes to drop back down to near zero. The time it takes is a reliable indicator of the state of the cycle.

You mentioned CO2 in relation to the pH drop. Does that mean that you are injecting CO2? If so it might be best to hold off on CO2 injection until the tank is cycled so that you can maintain a higher pH for the duration.

That is unless someone knows more about cycling with a low pH (<6.5). It is no doubt possible but likely to take longer.
 

mattgirl

im very skeptical about adding more ammonia idk why,
Ammonia is bacteria food. You need to add it to feed and grow the necessary bacteria. I really don't think the hair algae was caused by the addition of ammonia.
 

KingOscar

Lights, liquid fertilizer, and CO2 :eek: certainly will contribute to algae. The beneficial bacteria you're trying to build doesn't require any of that, and if it's lowering your PH it's actually hindering the process. Maybe back off on these things and give it more time.
 

Charbel1011

Ammonia is bacteria food. You need to add it to feed and grow the necessary bacteria. I really don't think the hair algae was caused by the addition of ammonia.
Lights, liquid fertilizer, and CO2 :eek: certainly will contribute to algae. The beneficial bacteria you're trying to build doesn't require any of that, and if it's lowering your PH it's actually hindering the process. Maybe back off on these things and give it more time.
I raised my KH to 4. And now ph is 7.6+ temporarly till i get that thing cycled. + raised my ammonia.
 

MrMuggles

Hello guys, i own waterbox 4820 72 gallons tank, its mid-heavy planted tank. Im trying to cycle it, but for some reason i cant. I added fritz fishless fuel ammonia and i rised it to 2ppm, i added a whole bottle of 4oz fritz turbo start 700 bacteria, didnt do nothing, i have no signs of notrite at all. So that was 5 days ago, in my head okay maybe its a spoiled bottle i bought from amazon, let me go to my LFS, and buy a new one same thing added it yesterday, tested today, and no signs for nitrite at all. I do have nitrate but thats because i dose liquid fertilizer that have it. Can u please help me guys get this cycle going?
I poured over $80 of every locally available brand of bottled bacteria into my tank throughout my “fishless cycle” - result? not a single one had any measurable impact whatsoever.
My cycle still took 6-7 weeks. I made some other mistakes too but don’t expect the bottles to do much…
I raised my KH to 4. And now ph is 7.6+ temporarly till i get that thing cycled. + raised my ammonia.
This is what got my cycle going, but I would avoid dosing ammonia beyond 1ppm, more is totally unnecessary and can lead to excessive nitrite during phase 2.
 

Jerome O'Neil

5 Days ago isn't going to cycle anything no matter how much goop you dump in the tank.

Give yourself three weeks. Bacteria grow slow.
 

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