65 Gallon Tank Normal / Stressed / Sick Angels (Freshwater)

Luzanne

Hi there,
I am new to the forum, so please bear with me.

I have angelfish (9) - all juveniles, largest 2 are around 7cm, rest 4cm. Planted tank, lots of driftwood, almond leaves, peat in filtration system (Dophin C1600).
Tankmates, (again all juveniles) 6 adolfi corydoras (3cm), 2 kuhli loaches (5cm) 1 brazilian butterfly pleco (4cm)
Tank back and one side is black. LED lighting inside lid.

Feeding (as they are still young, 3 times per day (Tetra Pro Energy (morning) Tetra Pro Color Multi Crisps (lunch) wafers (dinner). Once a week, frozen bloodworm. (corys, loaches and pleco gets 1 mini spirulina wafer at night, and slice of zuchini once per week

I did a usual weekly water change last week Monday. After that all the Angels have started to behave strangely, a lot of hiding, less eager eating, some eating very little. No outward signs of illness. Colors are very vivid, fins healthy looking, dorsal fins folded a bit more. Poop is now appearing a bit white and stringy - not sure if this is because of the decrease in appetite or parasites..... I don't want to use medication unless I am sure they are sick.

The two largest ones were quite a tad more aggressive for bout 24 hours after the change, claiming the underside of one piece of driftwood in a corner. One hid underneath and darted from there forwards, then reversed and darted forwards again, even if no other fish were in the area. That lasted at least 4 days.

Two of the koi angels showed red dotting along the body line and along the lateral line. Then they and 2 more showed red patches on the bases of their pectoral fins. Started dosing with Bio-Elite, Heal all from Friday. Redness at pectoral fins have drastically gone down, and it looks like the red lining around the body and lateral line is fading ever so slightly. The pH tends to go a little high (around 7.2-7.6), so I added BioElite Soft-Water Conditioner (with IAL) 3 days ago

Other than the redness, there are no physical health issues I can see. I am stumped, I don't want my fish to suffer and would urgently try to alleviate any stress or affliction they have. I just have no idea if this is normal or what can be wrong.

Two kuhlis are also hiding a bit more than usual, and one cory has barely noticeable whitish fuzz on him.

10% weekly water change (adding Organic Aqua Water Care and Organic Aqua Fish Care & Seachem Flourish Excel)
Temperature, 25 degrees Celsius
Weekly testing, with JBL Pro Aquatest.
I have been testing daily for the past week, and except for the pH and KH, the readings have not changed from those below which I took just now.
NO less than 10ppm,
No2 = 0ppm
GH >250ppm (<375)
KH 53-107ppm
pH 6.8-7.2
Cl2 0ppm

I have a 240 litre aquarium currently (planning to go to around 300 litre in a few months, will then lower number of angels to 6). Tank was cycled for 2 months prior to adding fish. Fish purchased beginning December 2020.
 

dMog

What would the ph be out of your tap after sitting for 24 hours.... 53 gallon tank you are over stocked with 9 angel fish...ONE pair requires 50 gallons to themselves. This may be stress related because angels are aggressive to each other angels when they start to pair off
I ask about the ph because stable ph is better than chasing it to find that so called perfect sweet spot....fluctuations in ph can very easily happen when it is artificially altered and is stressful for fish if you cannot keep it consistent day to day
also, 10%water changes are not enough, 35% to 45% would be better....just using dechlorinated temp matched water...no other additives required other than ferts for plants if you use them
 
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Luzanne

thank you for your response, and your input.

I know I am overstocked. As I said, they are still juveniles and up to date there is no aggression. I intentionally got 3 more than my target number to try and ensure the 6 I intend to keep will get along and any overly aggressive or timid ones I can give to an already earmarked good home.

They normally all swim together and except for those few days, last week, where 2 took possession of a portion of the tank, they are all now hiding together too. I keep a very close eye on them for any signs of aggression.

As I explained in my first post, I am planning to reduce the number of angels, and get a bigger volume tank. From what I understood, 76 litres per pair is sufficient, am I wrong?

I don't use tap water, but RO.

The pH has been relatively stable for almost a month at between 7.2 and 7.6. Their odd behaviour started directly after the water change last week Monday, and when I tested the pH it was still in that range. I tested the water every day last week and only dosed the water softener (thus adjusting pH) by Friday as I could find no other possible explanation for the change in them.

Do they look physically sick? The red lining - is it a symptom of something specific? Can in be septicemia?
 
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dMog

you are using RO water, how are you remineralizing it. when you ask for help, by not giving pertinent information you unintentionally mislead the people trying to help. You may know what is going on but the people you ask for help do not because you did not provide all information that was needed to give a proper answer. i answered as per what was provided by you. As for me saying you are over stocked, yes you are, and they are pairing up now...aggression will begin, if not already started when lights are out and you not there to see it.... Aggression causes stress stressed fish act initially like you are describing. Even as you do plan to rehome some fish, you as yet do not even have the tank in your possession with water in it or have it cycled to do so. What if the the paired angels suddenly become very aggressive as can very likely happen. Angels fight very hard and can do much damage and the losing angel will have nowhere to hide or escape more aggression.
 
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Luzanne

oh my word!
in my first post, I asked to be excused as I am new to this forum
I tried my best to give as much info as I could, please forgive me for not putting down every last thing.
I am not putting the angels in another tank, as I said in my response above, I have another home for them, though that is not in my house, it is at a friends, again sorry for not being that specific.

I really do not understand why you feel that you have to be rude. I was not snotty with you in my response at all. I asked if I was wrong in what I had researched on the amount of angels per gallon. There are so many different opinions out there.

All you could have said, was the following, then I would have understood perfectly.
"As for me saying you are over stocked, yes you are, and they are pairing up now...aggression will begin, if not already started when lights are out and you not there to see it.... Aggression causes stress stressed fish act initially like you are describing. "

You could even have gone so far as to just say, they look physically healthy or not, and or whether the red lining is from stress or possibly an illness. I will rather not ask anything on this forum again for fear of being treated like an idiot.

Thank you for your help. I will make sure I sort out the overstocking issues.

Have a wonderful and blessed day.
 
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dMog

VERY SORRY really, i tend to not give long explanations as that may confuse what needs to be said. it was not meant to come across as rude. again sorry for doing so
 
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Luzanne

Apology accepted and thank you .
To update, this morning the angels are a lot more active, and the red lining is definitely fading, as is the redness at the pectoral fin bases. This makes me lean towards some other issue than overcrowding, maybe bacterial/ parasitical.
I am just relieved there is improvement and I will for now continue with the current treatment method.
I did a lot of reading last night and with their current sizes, overcrowding should not be an issue...yet.
Thanks again for your advice & help.
 
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dMog

Until you get your other tank just try doing 2 weekly water changes at 35% or 40% each time, that will help, fresh clean water is the best thing to do even for not crowded tanks. Also how you clean/change filters is bif too. If you have filter cartridges or use floss, or foam. just rinse them in old tank water and reuse them. No need to throw away cartridges if that is what your filter uses, just rinse and reuse. In fact, replace cartridges with medium coarse filter foam, more beneficial bacteria grow in foam and that is what eats the ammonia and nitrite is the bacteria...no real need for carbon or charcoal at all unless you need to remove meds
The red may have been from stress, or not large enough water changes too as you say it seems to be going away.
 
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Luzanne

awesome, will do that.
Thank you!
 
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86 ssinit

Seems to me it had something to do with the water change. How is your tap water why are you use ro water? Am I wrong or does 240l=60g? I would suggest a bigger water change but first we need to know what happened with the last one. What’s your ammonia reading? What type of filter? How many lph does it move? What type of media does it have?

I don’t think the tank is overcrowded now. But as they grow they will need Togo to the bigger tank. So we could say the 60 is a grow out tank.
 
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Luzanne

It is 63 gallons (US), yes.
The general hardness have been on the high side for a while, I was advised to rather use RO.
I do a 25% once a month / 6 weeks.
I was told that 10% weekly change is sufficient, as long as I keep an eye on quality, is this wrong? Would you recommend 25% weekly or more? Are large changes not stressful for the fish if the quality of water is good?
Nitrite and nitrate levels are low (0 and 0 - 10 respectively). I have not tested ammonia levels. Would the nitrite and nitrate not increase if the ammonia does?
I have a cannister Dophin C1600 filter, 2540l/h. Contains - ceramic balls, bio-balls, volcano rocks, Seachem's Matrix & Purigen, Sponge / Floss Sheets (varying density), Recently added peat. I also removed the carbon, on Friday, which I have in a small submersible filter inside the tank, to ensure easy removal if I urgently need to medicate etc.
And thank you, yes, definitely a grow out tank
 
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86 ssinit

I take it your in the UK. For me I do 50% weekly. What is the ph out of the tap? Do you use prime water conditioner? 0 nitrate just isn’t right. There should be nitrate. Almost sounds like your tank isn’t cycled. I would check your ammonia. I’ve never used your test kit so I don’t know why your reading 0 nitrate. Does the nitrate test say to shake the liquid mixture?

Could be what your adding to the tank to control your ph. The worst thing to do is try and change it. Fish will adapt to your ph. A steady ph is best.

Your filter is good except for the peat. Is that to lower ph? Oh and carbon does nothing. It’s used to remove smell or remove meds after that useless. Haven’t used it in over 30yrs.
 
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Luzanne

I am in South Africa. The test strips are color coded, pic attached. According to the color coded blocks, those are the readings I get, it is sadly the best I can do at the moment.
As stated, I cycled the tank for 2 months (or thought I did). Starter bacteria / filter activator, added and during the second month I added some driftwood, plants and 3 guppies. I used products from this company, and am still using their Fish Care and Water Care - Aquarium products – Store – Organic Aqua (pic attached of what I use)
The product I added for the pH / KH I added is an all natural product for blackwater tanks, from what I understood, for creating optimal conditions for Angels. I had not known about this when I started up my tank. When the problem started, the only thing I could think was that because the pH were on the higher end of the angel scale, it may have been the cause. Only once I searched for methods other than pH down, did I find this product.
"Bio-Elite Soft-water Conditioner (with IAL) is used to create and maintain optimum “black water” conditions, which are dark, soft and acidic. Many species of fresh water fish occur naturally in rivers, streams, pools, swamps and lakes with these conditions. In order to keep these fish successfully in captivity, one needs to mimic these black water conditions. Species which require these conditions include Betta fish (Siamese fighting fish), Gouramies, Angels
I only added this on Friday and only one time, and not the full dose as I was scared to impact the pH too drastically. The dosage stated every 3 days, which I also haven't done. The pH is increasing very slightly.
Do you recommend I rather not add this product at all?

Tap water on acidic side - according to the strips are around 6.4 - which I find a little hard to believe, but on the other hand, I am in SA, so anything is possible, may just be the reason behind my heartburn :confused:

I will definitely see if I can get my hands on better testing.
 
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dMog

Abit more on ph and water hardness... unless your ph is way out of wack you should be able to keep it as is out of your tap. As for water hardness, Fish do what is called osmoregulation and they carbonate hardness to do this, This also one reason for the weekly water changes as normal filter operation and the needs of the tank and fish use up some of this carbonate hardness, S0 that is why 35% to 45% partial water changes each and every week is required. . As forRO water, if you do not remineralize to high enough. general hardness and carbonate hardness the fish can suffer. If your tap water is extremely high you can mix tap water and RO water to get within the proper range... I will post again on the needed parameters for you to shoot for, it might have its own post OR might be combined on this post so you may have to look back at this one
more information.





Parameter Freshwater Community African Cichlid Freshwater Plants & Discus Brackish Pond
Temperature72 - 82°F72 - 82°F76 - 86°F72 - 82°F33 - 86°F
pH6.5 - 7.57.8 - 8.56.0 - 7.57.5 - 8.46.5 - 7.5
Ammonia0.00.00.00.00.0
Nitrite0.00.00.00.00.0
Nitrate< 50 ppm< 50 ppm< 30 ppm< 50 ppm< 50 ppm
Alkalinity (Carbonate Hardness)4 - 8 KH10 - 18 KH3 - 8 KH10 - 18 KH4 - 8 KH
General Hardness4 - 12 GH12 - 20 GH3 - 8 GH12 - 20 GH4 - 12 GH
 
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Luzanne

Just an afterthought, would the growth on driftwood cause problems? Some pieces in my tank repeatedly grows a hairy white slime. I was initially very concerned about it, scrubbed down quite frequently with hard brush. I have not done that in the past few weeks as I have been told it is completely harmless to the fish and that it would eventually go away.
 
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dMog

It has NITRATE listed at a much higher number than I personally keep or recommend...You can have it that high but if you keep it under 40PPM or better yet under 20PPM your tank inhabitants will have less issues
 
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Luzanne

Abit more on ph and water hardness... unless your ph is way out of wack you should be able to keep it as is out of your tap. As for water hardness, Fish do what is called osmoregulation and they carbonate hardness to do this, This also one reason for the weekly water changes as normal filter operation and the needs of the tank and fish use up some of this carbonate hardness, S0 that is why 35% to 45% partial water changes each and every week is required. . As forRO water, if you do not remineralize to high enough. general hardness and carbonate hardness the fish can suffer. If your tap water is extremely high you can mix tap water and RO water to get within the proper range... I will post again on the needed parameters for you to shoot for, it might have its own post OR might be combined on this post so you may have to look back at this one
more information.





Parameter Freshwater Community African Cichlid Freshwater Plants & Discus Brackish Pond
Temperature72 - 82°F72 - 82°F76 - 86°F72 - 82°F33 - 86°F
pH6.5 - 7.57.8 - 8.56.0 - 7.57.5 - 8.46.5 - 7.5
Ammonia0.00.00.00.00.0
Nitrite0.00.00.00.00.0
Nitrate< 50 ppm< 50 ppm< 30 ppm< 50 ppm< 50 ppm
Alkalinity (Carbonate Hardness)4 - 8 KH10 - 18 KH3 - 8 KH10 - 18 KH4 - 8 KH
General Hardness4 - 12 GH12 - 20 GH3 - 8 GH12 - 20 GH4 - 12 GH
Thank you so much!
The General hardness were above >21 for quite some time, another reason why I went with the RO. KH were 10, and pH - 7.2 to 7.6 sometimes leaning more to 8
 
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86 ssinit

So your ph is going up on the tank water? If so what’s in the tank? But still all was good till you did a 10% water change? And since that change you’ve done nothing and the fish are looking better? Are they out and about swimming around the tank?
 
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dMog

hairy white slime on your driftwood is not harmful. it can usually go away by itself. Unless it gets out of control just leave it it will usually go away by itself . Tis a balance your tank is trying to find. Besides the fish in your tank there is a lot of other flora and fauna growing in your tank...almost all of it natural and good.
 
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Luzanne

Everything was fine until the water change, which I did as per the norm. That was last week Monday. The behavior changes then began, after which I noticed the red lines, initially I thought it was just deepening of the color, but when the lateral line became dotted red, I started to worry. As all the fish still looked fine, except for their odd behavior of hiding, they still fed quite well and I could see no signs of parasites or skin lesions etc, I thought that maybe the pH that have been on the higher end for weeks now might be to blame.
I also started treatment with a all natural broad spectrum anti-bacterial, anti-parasitic. I started with that this past Friday.
The redness looks a little better, a few are a little more active, but they are mostly still hiding and not really feeding, just occasionally picking at the bottom or surfaces of the plants and wood. They are mostly hiding in the back behind a piece of driftwood, closer to the bottom than the top of the tank.
I have driftwood, a smallish piece of slate, and fine gravel, three almond leaves and natural plants.
hairy white slime on your driftwood is not harmful. it can usually go away by itself. Unless it gets out of control just leave it it will usually go away by itself . Tis a balance your tank is trying to find. Besides the fish in your tank there is a lot of other flora and fauna growing in your tank...almost all of it natural and good.
Thank you. I am honestly very worried and getting desperate now. I am very attached to all my pets, and can't bear to see them in distress.
 
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dMog

the water changes as suggested will help too. you mentioned the angels were pairing up, that will cause a lot of aggression in the entire tank...aggression even if they do not fight to the death or cause notable damage causes stress and stress makes for sick fish...all the meds or treatments in the world will not make a difference if the cause is also not addressed
 
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Luzanne

the water changes as suggested will help too. you mentioned the angels were pairing up, that will cause a lot of aggression in the entire tank...aggression even if they do not fight to the death or cause notable damage causes stress and stress makes for sick fish...all the meds or treatments in the world will not make a difference if the cause is also not addressed
I initially thought the two larger ones paired up, but I think I was mistaken. There is absolutely no aggression in the tank, not even the occasional quick chase. They are all huddled together. No pairing at all.
 
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dMog

are they eating normal, what does the poop look like. it will help to test for ammonia, nitrite an nitrate and ph daily and track the parameters...if testing on a water change day test before the water change...getting a base line will help...additionally doing those weekly larger water changes be very helpful as will a 35 percent water change every day right now for 4 or 5 days.
 
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Luzanne

are they eating normal, what does the poop look like. it will help to test for ammonia, nitrite an nitrate and ph daily and track the parameters...if testing on a water change day test before the water change...getting a base line will help...additionally doing those weekly larger water changes be very helpful as will a 35 percent water change every day right now for 4 or 5 days.
no they are not eating as usual, some barely eating. I have tried changing food, gave garlic water infused food. There is a lot of taking food and spitting out going on as well as pecking off the surfaces of the plants and wood.
Poop was red, but last poop I saw was white and stringy - not sure if it is because of lack of eating. I am worried about internal parasites, hence the all natural anti parasitic treatment that I started Friday.
Since this all started I have been testing daily, with the exception of ammonia, will see about getting a test kit for that tomorrow. Also planning to do large water change tomorrow and then as you suggest for a few days after that too.
 
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dMog

White poop is a sign of internal parasites. but you also say they are not eating and pecking at stuff on the plants. that could be why the poop is white, fish poop will be like the color of the food they eat. what food do you have for them, i feed several types of food , frozen , flakes, pellets , dries blood worms. sometimes the fish just do not like some foods and wont eat it...just like people when other food is plentiful. ... try frozen daphnia or frozen blood worms. if it is an actual internal parasite the proper meds need to be used. i have not treated for internal parasites for believe it or not 35 years and here in Canada we can no longer fish meds over the counter so i am unfamiliar with the proper meds to use. But i will get back to uou in a few minutes on what to use.
first this link, and the first possibility is your fish may not be infected with internal parasites
Stringy White Fish Poop
then this, and it comes with the caveat that we should not treat with meds unless we know for certain they are required
Effective treatments include levamisole, metronidazole or praziquantel. Metronidazole and praziquantel are especially effective when used as food soaks. Antibiotics such as nitrofurazone or erythromycin may also help prevent secondary bacterial infections.
again first order of business with sick fish... check parameters...fast ph swings can cause these symptoms, so can water hardness not being high enough, AMMONIA and NITRITE need to be zero PPM.
 
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86 ssinit

How long has this tank been running? Is it your only tank? Does the ph get higher in the tank? Has this always happened?
 
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Luzanne

How long has this tank been running? Is it your only tank? Does the ph get higher in the tank? Has this always happened?
Sorry for only responding now.
It is my only tank, had a guppy community tank for a few years, and a fancy goldfish as well. I started this tank around October 2020, fish added Dec.
The pH has not went higher than the 7.8-8.0 bracket.
White poop is a sign of internal parasites. but you also say they are not eating and pecking at stuff on the plants. that could be why the poop is white, fish poop will be like the color of the food they eat. what food do you have for them, i feed several types of food , frozen , flakes, pellets , dries blood worms. sometimes the fish just do not like some foods and wont eat it...just like people when other food is plentiful. ... try frozen daphnia or frozen blood worms. if it is an actual internal parasite the proper meds need to be used. i have not treated for internal parasites for believe it or not 35 years and here in Canada we can no longer fish meds over the counter so i am unfamiliar with the proper meds to use. But i will get back to uou in a few minutes on what to use.
first this link, and the first possibility is your fish may not be infected with internal parasites
Stringy White Fish Poop
then this, and it comes with the caveat that we should not treat with meds unless we know for certain they are required
Effective treatments include levamisole, metronidazole or praziquantel. Metronidazole and praziquantel are especially effective when used as food soaks. Antibiotics such as nitrofurazone or erythromycin may also help prevent secondary bacterial infections.
again first order of business with sick fish... check parameters...fast ph swings can cause these symptoms, so can water hardness not being high enough, AMMONIA and NITRITE need to be zero PPM.
I feed a variety of foods, frozen bloodworm, high quality flakes, crisps and pellets, giving a different one with every feeding. The bloodworms I give only once per week, pre-soaked in garlic.
Update:
I got an Ammonia tester, and the levels are below 0.02ppm.
Did a 50% water change.
All parameters still as per previous testing. pH is at around 7.
Fish were much friendlier this morning and also eating a little better, but I noticed they had small bumps on their bodies, larger than ich, and not red. I am not able to identify what they have (leaning towards velvet, but not sure). I am convinved now it is parasitic and there may be some secondary issues now too. I suspect the stress with the water change may have attributed to it lowering immune systems???
I bought Metroplex (metronidazole) - added as medicated food mix, Stress Guard and ParaGuard. I am also increasing the temperature slightly. And switched off tank lights, luckily one side and the back is blacked out.
Sadly though, after the water change today one angel has passed.
I can now only medicate, pray and hope that they guys left recover.
Thank you for all your help. I will keep you posted.
 
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dMog

Lots of questions coming...how often do you test the water parameters, What are current water parameters right now... is the ph stable every day from water change to water change. What amount of water are you now charging. There are many factors that come into play here but knowing the current parameters is going to always be paramount to figuring out what is needed.
as for ph, it will fluctuate from day to day a little, from lights on to light off to early in the morning to late at night but what we are looking for is large swings in ph. We are assuming that you are taking the advice given about water change routines here too, if you are not let us know, and we really need the parameters for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, ph and your water general hardness and carbonate hardness.... and if they remain stable just saw your last post, ph of 7 is good as long as it is constant all week are you still using something to adjust your ph? Darf I hope you do not lose any more fish, and going to pets stores is not of any help as they mostly pretend to know and just offer to sell you stuff you dont need as a solution is there any way you can get a good close up picture to post. one that shows the bumps on the fish, post a new thread call it sick angels, i am sure there is a mmember here that is well versed in medicines required for this and also will know more on proper treatment methods
 
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Luzanne

Lots of questions coming...how often do you test the water parameters, What are current water parameters right now... is the ph stable every day from water change to water change. What amount of water are you now charging. There are many factors that come into play here but knowing the current parameters is going to always be paramount to figuring out what is needed.
as for ph, it will fluctuate from day to day a little, from lights on to light off to early in the morning to late at night but what we are looking for is large swings in ph. We are assuming that you are taking the advice given about water change routines here too, if you are not let us know, and we really need the parameters for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, ph and your water general hardness and carbonate hardness.... and if they remain stable
Normally, water testing once per week (unless there are issues, then I will test more). Since water change last week and the issues started with the fish, testing daily, usually around lunch time.
The pH is relatively stable (no large changes) from water change to change, though it was at the higher end of the Angel spectrum (7.4-8.0)
I have started with the water changes as you suggested, did a 50% change today and will do at least a 25% tomorrow again, and continue with that daily until the fish are healthy.
Current parameters (three hours after water change):
Ammonia <0.02ppm
Nitrite 0-10 ppm
Nitrate 0-0.5ppm
GH >14
KH, between 53 and 107
pH, around 7
Above remains stable, no fluctuations (not sure of the ammonia, as today tested for first time)
I am busy researching velvet disease and the more I read, the more I am convinced it may be the culprit.
 
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86 ssinit

Ok the nitrite is way to high. You changed 50% so that brought it down from 20 to 10. My test kit only goes to 5ppm. Is 10 the highest your test goes? If so you will need to do 50% wc daily till you get it to 0. In your last post you say your ph is 7. But you answered mine earlier that it was 7.8-8. Now if your ph is going up in the tank between water changes there’s something in the tank raising it. The rock or driftwood or anything else you added could be raising it.
Pictures of the sick angels will help too.
 
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dMog

Yes nitrite is poisoning your fish it seems you have crashed your cycle... nitrite at that level will do what your are describing, You will now need to be doing what is called FISH IN CYCLE ...as the other member stated water changes every day and something in your tank is raising your ph. (aside form 50% percent changes every day too, as 25% i not enough to lower those nitrites to non deadly levels, in fact right now you need to get the nitrites down below 0.50 asap. after your first water change of 50% wait an hour test the water and if nitrate is still high wait another hour and do one more 50% change.) You will need to rest daily and change water to keep nitrites low... eventually nitrates will begin to rise as the bacteria that eat nitrites grow and eat nitrites they will poop out nitrate.... As for ph, is there rocks or sea shells in the tank? if so remove them, and what does your substreate consist of, take a bit of substrate out let it dry and then drip some vinegar on it...if it bubbles after a few seconds or minutes, it is the the thing that is adding to your ph rise and will need to be removed

I suggest seachem Prime water dechlorinator as it binds 1PPM of ammonia and nitrite for 48 hours and makes it non-toxic
 
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Luzanne

Ok the nitrite is way to high. You changed 50% so that brought it down from 20 to 10. My test kit only goes to 5ppm. Is 10 the highest your test goes? If so you will need to do 50% wc daily till you get it to 0. In your last post you say your ph is 7. But you answered mine earlier that it was 7.8-8. Now if your ph is going up in the tank between water changes there’s something in the tank raising it. The rock or driftwood or anything else you added could be raising it.
Pictures of the sick angels will help too.
Sorry, I swapped the values for nitrate with nitrite.
What I said about the pH it previously ranged between 7.2 to 7.6 sometimes leaning more to 8, but that it never passed the 7.8-8.0 bracket / color coded blocks on the test kit).
The pH has not changed since this past Saturday. And it changed only from between around 7.6 to between 6.8-7.2 since last week Monday, after I added the black water softener.
Should driftwood not bring the pH down? If so, I suspect it may be the rock, which I will remove asap.
 
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dMog

yes that makes a difference your cycle is ok then... i nitrite and nitrate. i still mistype the i and the a when speaking of them in posts
The Fish Keeper’s Guide to pH, GH, and KH
here is one more good link
 
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86 ssinit

Yes that’s much better . Does sound like your tank is cycling. Yes remove the rock. Ph shouldn’t fluctuate that much. Could be the rock.
 
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Luzanne

I will try again to get photos as these are not really clear. The nodules are almost on all the angels, other species not affected as far as I can tell, can't locate the pleco though.
 
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jake37

My angels sometime get a red line (like the one you circled) and I assume it means nothing because their behavior doesn't change much and they eat like the bickens for the past 9 months. I have 10 adults in a 120 (7 are frys i raised that i never intended to keep but...) and the other 3 are about 9 months older with 2 being the parents.
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A few comments: stability is more important than a specific ph/kh/gh. They do not like sudden change to ph/kh/gh. If your tap water (and i never saw the final reading other than a ph of 6.6 which is ok) is acceptable to them then changing ph/kh/gh on every water change is risking upsetting the fishes. When kh/gh are very low ph will be less stable. Another parameter that needs to be well maintained is temp. When you do a water change a sudden change in temp will make them very upset. I try to make sure the temp changes less than 2 degrees (though angels are pretty hardy and can take a wider swing i have some fishes more sensitive).
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I hope i haven't missed anything important but there is a lot of information here and there. My primarily point is that unless absolutely necessary it is best to not adjust tap too much since it becomes difficult to make sure it is maintained the same on every water change.
 
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Luzanne

My angels sometime get a red line (like the one you circled) and I assume it means nothing because their behavior doesn't change much and they eat like the bickens for the past 9 months. I have 10 adults in a 120 (7 are frys i raised that i never intended to keep but...) and the other 3 are about 9 months older with 2 being the parents.
-
A few comments: stability is more important than a specific ph/kh/gh. They do not like sudden change to ph/kh/gh. If your tap water (and i never saw the final reading other than a ph of 6.6 which is ok) is acceptable to them then changing ph/kh/gh on every water change is risking upsetting the fishes. When kh/gh are very low ph will be less stable. Another parameter that needs to be well maintained is temp. When you do a water change a sudden change in temp will make them very upset. I try to make sure the temp changes less than 2 degrees (though angels are pretty hardy and can take a wider swing i have some fishes more sensitive).
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I hope i haven't missed anything important but there is a lot of information here and there. My primarily point is that unless absolutely necessary it is best to not adjust tap too much since it becomes difficult to make sure it is maintained the same on every water change.
Hi and thank you for the info. The changes to the pH came only after they were displaying symptoms, as I thought it may have been that the pH was too high for the angels. Anyhoo, the pH has now stabilized, and is around 7. I have learned my lessen and will rather not fiddle with that again.
Temperature with water changes, yes that is a problem, but not currently as we have summer and the difference is not that much. With the 10% weekly water change (which I now know was not enough), the temperature inside the tank did not fluctuate that much, but it could have been a stress trigger. I will try to get another heater to pre-heat the new water prior to changing if that will help.
Turns out that they definitely have a parasitic infection, though not 100% sure of the identity, suspect velvet...not so much of the dusting, but the other symptoms are becoming visible and I fear I have not started treatment in time.
Again thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
 
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86 ssinit

Ok I don’t think that’s velvet. Are your fish scratching against things in the tank. Now it may be something else I’m not sure. Will need pictures of the pimple. But angelfish and discus are known to get these pimples when there’s a problem with the water or they’re stressed.
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this is a picture of a discus I had moved from one tank to a new tank. Stress caused these pimples. 2 days later and 2 water changes they were gone. Notice like yours his fins are fully extended. Sick fish close their fins.
 
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Luzanne

Ok I don’t think that’s velvet. Are your fish scratching against things in the tank. Now it may be something else I’m not sure. Will need pictures of the pimple. But angelfish and discus are known to get these pimples when there’s a problem with the water or they’re stressed.
You must be registered to see images
this is a picture of a discus I had moved from one tank to a new tank. Stress caused these pimples. 2 days later and 2 water changes they were gone. Notice like yours his fins are fully extended. Sick fish close their fins.
They have started to do some flicking against things, not as much as I've seen with fish with ich. Also fin flicking and some almost quivering of the body, but very little of this behavior. Two look like they may have distended bellies - I may just be getting neurotic .
They are however at least now coming to the front to greet and they are eating a bit better.
It is only the dorsal fin that they are tucking / folding.
It is such a confusing situation, as I said I don't want to treat with harsh meds unnecessarily, but also don't want them to suffer or get beyond a point of help if they are sick.
Do you think I am making the right decision to have started treatment with Metroplex and ParaGuard?
 
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