Nonstop Pine-coning Guppies

DioAquatics

So as the title states, I'm having an issue with nonstop pine-coning guppies in my tank. I have been having a lot of my guppies (mainly females,very few males) pinecone but its only one at a time, then that one will die and another will have it. I've separated the pine-coned ones before they die and tried to treat them with Kanaplax and Paraguard (not together) and nothing happens but them dying. These guppies were all born and raised in my tank, only one is a store bought male from my LFS. Could any one tell me what's going on and why almost all my female guppies are pine-coning and dying?!
 

yukondog

Sorry I can't help but what is pine-coning?
 

Mifuluhu

That's dropsy which is caused by an internal parasite. I'd treat tank with a broad spectrum Antiobiotic as it will keep spreading to other fish.
 

DioAquatics

Sorry I can't help but what is pine-coning?

Pine coning is when the fish's scales come out like a pine cone. I think its because of retention of water or something like that, I'm not sure.

That's dropsy which is caused by an internal parasite. I'd treat tank with a broad spectrum Antiobiotic as it will keep spreading to other fish.

What do you recommend I dose the tank with? I have no issue buying a different medication if that will help my fish.
 

Bettatude

That's very odd as paraguard treats parasitic, bacterial, fungal and viral. What are your water parameters and temp? Info on your tank and everything that's in it will help too.
 

Mifuluhu

I have had luck with tetracycline curing dropsy in a few tiger barbs. I choose this med simply because it was the only one available at my LFS and I needed to QT and medicate immediately.

Dropsy is a symptom indicating another disease....and once the fish are pine coned it's hard to cure. I'd medicate the whole tank and hope to save as many as possible.

What is the size of the tank btw?

Good luck!
 

lfabb

Kanamycin and oxytetracycline together is a nice broad spectrum and may help the dropsy systems.

Only the guppies are affected?
 

DioAquatics

I'll stop by my LFS tomorrow to see if he has any tetracycline. Does it have any effect on inverts or plants? I can definitely medicate the whole tank I just don't want my snails, shrimp, or plants to suffer from it. This is my 75 gallon that they're in.

Kanamycin and oxytetracycline together is a nice broad spectrum and may help the dropsy systems.

Only the guppies are affected?

Where would I be able to get those meds? Online or should I go to my LFS? And yes only my guppies are affected by this
 

Mifuluhu

I have only used antibiotics in QT tanks so you'll have to read labels carefully. If it's only certain fish you can try QTing them to medicate first. Always best to avoid whole tank meds.
 

DioAquatics

I have only used antibiotics in QT tanks so you'll have to read labels carefully. If it's only certain fish you can try QTing them to medicate first. Always best to avoid whole tank meds.

Ill see what my LFS has and what I can do for my fish. It's only the guppies that are pineconed so I'll put them in a QT and medicate them.
 

Mifuluhu

Keep us updated!
 

lfabb

Where would I be able to get those meds? Online or should I go to my LFS? And yes only my guppies are affected by this

You'd likely need to order oxytetracycline online although kanamycin is easier to find in store but can be ordered as well. I know these antibiotics don't affect plants shrimp or snails if dosed properly. I believe the same to be true about tetracycline but I'm not 100% positive.

IMO even though the guppies are displaying symptoms I would treat the whole tank v QT since the antibiotics certainly wouldn't hurt anyone.
 

DioAquatics

You'd likely need to order oxytetracycline online although kanamycin is easier to find in store but can be ordered as well. I know these antibiotics don't affect plants shrimp or snails if dosed properly. I believe the same to be true about tetracycline but I'm not 100% positive.

IMO even though the guppies are displaying symptoms I would treat the whole tank v QT since the antibiotics certainly wouldn't hurt anyone.

I'll take a look in my LFS later today and I'll see if they have those medications. If they do, I'll buy them and dose the entire tank since they're safe on plants and inverts. I'd there a specific dosing that I'd have to do? Like how many days and stuff
 

Bettatude

Just a FYI - Tetracycline can be messy and might mess with your cycle.
 

Whitewolf

KingD please pay attention.
He said OXYtetracycliene. There are two completely difrent antibiotics, tetracycline, for gram + bacteria, and the much better OXYtetracycline, for Gram + and Gram - bacteria.
You can use the general cure.
Google which medications can safely be combined to make a 3 in one med, to cover bacteria, and parasites.
Dont just go around buying this and buying that and dumping it into the tank. Do some researach, listen to knowledgeable people on the forum, Ifabb is smart, but still reasonably new to the hobby.
My guess is that your dropsy is caused by an internal bacteria, so try some metronidazole combined with another antibiotic. Try some salt, and make sure they are still passing feces.
Maintain good water quality and get back to us. Dont feed for right now, they are probably literally exploding.
 

DioAquatics

Yea I saw that both tetracycline and oxytetracycline were both mentioned. Will OXYtetracycline mess with my cycle? I'll use general cure as one medication and maybe see if it's safe to mix that with OXYtetracycline, kanamycin or metronidazole to see what would be the best combo of meds.

I wasn't planning on just buying meds and dumping them into the tank. I'm going to my LFS to get advice from them on top of my own research. I'm all ears to any advise and knowledge from members on the forum. I can definitely buy some aquarium salt and dose the tank just to make sure everyone is passing feces. Should I do a half dose or a full dose? As mentioned above my water quality is pretty good but I plan on doing a water change tomorrow so after I do the water change, get the meds and advice I need, then I might dose the tank but again that's after my research.
 

Bettatude

That would be EPSOM salt, not aquarium salt.

Just to add, mixing different meds is dangerous, unless you're a pharmacist. I would sick with one med, and no salt if it was me.

I would recommend:
 

DioAquatics

EPSOM salt it is. Thanks for that
 

Bettatude

I added more to my comment that might help.
 

DioAquatics

Just saw that, but yea I agree that it can be some what dangerous but that's why I'm going to do research on what medlar safe to mix. I already have kanaplex so I'll look more into it

Edit: So I just found on amazon peabodys medicated fish flakes. They have some with oxytetracycline, kanamycin, praziquantel, metronidazole, and fenbendazole (all separate). If I feed some of these to my fish, would that help them better than treating the water with meds since they would be ingesting the meds? Which would work best?
 

Bettatude

That's a lot of med mixing! The seachem kanaplex link I posted gives directions on how to medicate kanaplex in food too. The thing with medicating with food you don't how much medication the fish is getting and IMO this could lead to not giving enough or overdosing. The thing to remember is that fish absorb medications internally (through their gills) when they are given meds externally in the water.

If you dose kanaplex in the water remove all invertebrates, this includes snails and shrimp.

Make sure you read all of the instructions on the packaging.
 

DioAquatics

Oh no I wouldn't be mixing all of the foods together, I should have clarified that. I was just listing all the different types they have. The only ones I read that would work for my situation are the ones with kanamycin, oxytetracycline, and metronidazole and I wouldn't be feeding them all at the same time either. The overview on the medicated food (specifically kanamycin) says that its perfect for fish with dropsy so I'd be more willing to try that one as others have had success with it.

The biggest problem with dosing the entire tank with kanaplex is that I have a lot of plants and in order to take out all my shrimp and snails, I'd have to take all the plants out and basically break the tank down which isn't an option.

Edit: Kanaplex also doesn't treat internal parasites, only bacterial and fungal infections.
 

Bettatude

That is true about kanplex, sorry I wasn't aware you were looking to medicate for internal parasites too.
 

DioAquatics

Yea, I only say that because as stated above, dropsy is caused by internal parasites which is what my guppies must have. I'm still going to do more research on the medicated foods tho
 

Whitewolf

Dropsy can be caused by anything, including bacteria.
Guppies do not get a lot of "internal parasites" more often, they get worms or bacterial problems.
 

DioAquatics

That's pretty interesting. Although I'd rather treat with something that can treat broader ranged of things. I found on Peabody's website a package with all of their medicated foods for only $20 so I might get that and try it out but again, more research.
 

Bettatude

Dropsy is usually caused by bacteria.
 

Sarcasm Included

Whitwolf is giving the best advice so far and you can mix meds but you need to know which. Oxytetracycline and kanamycin are both good meds but tetracyclines should be used in low PH tanks as they are neutralized by calcium ions. Kanamycin and metronidazole are toxic to shrimp, less so with kanamycin. Peabody's has good product and feeding works much better than dosing the water. Peabody's is owned by a forum member Jetajockey. I would treat with the metronidazole by feeding them slowly so that no food is missed and eaten by shrimp or snails. Metronidazole treats internal protozoan infections as well as bacterial.
 

DioAquatics

I really appreciate all the advice from everyone. Thanks for that info on mixing the meds. I will get the medicated food from Peabody's and slowly feed the metronidazole to make sure the fish eat all the food I put in the tank.
 

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