no patience... what not to do for beginners

eric_m
  • #1
HI folks..
I was at Big Al's last friday to get some extra tubing for my filter and for some reason I ended up with 12 Cardinal Tetra's.. After acclimitizing them into the tank and feeding I noticed that they only eat when the flakes float to the bottom and not really touch the food on the bottom.. On Sat I picked up 4 Otocinclus thinking they would eat the left over food.. they only stuck to the glass, and found they are algae eaters (doh!!).. on Sunday my wife got 4 SterbaI Corydoras and 12 redline rasboras (I just love the whay they school)..

I've been reading a lot in this forum getting aquainted with being a fish owner (at the time was soon to be fish owner). So before you go on with OMG that's waaay too many fishes at once and hasnt even cycled his tank.. etc.. etc... I just wanted to say in my meager defence.. is .. I got excited and the inner child in me took over... So now as a responsable adult.. i'm trying to save these guys from a horrible demise.. if possible..

Ok now back to business.. PH 7.0, Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, nitrate 0, Temp 79 degrees F.
Last night my Ammonia was 1-2 .. but did a 20% water change and level went down to .5, I'm going to my brothers this weekend and steal (ahem borrow) his filter insert (ill replace it with a new one as a favour to him)

whats considered a dangerous level for Ammonia and nitrite.. I keep reading that ammonia is dangerous for the fish.. but they never say at what level.. Considering that you can cycle with fishes.. and a side note.. I can't find that spira stuff.. I don't think they import to canada...

I'll continue with the water change until it stabilizes...

so remember folks be patient.. it will be less work in the long run...

ok you can line up to smack me now...
 
Alessa
  • #2
welcome
dont feel bad, at least you did some reading and figured out you were doing something wrong.

ammonia is dangerous for fish at ANY LEVEL but like poison, the more it is the worse the results can be. Levels should ideally always stay at 0 for nitrites and AMMONIA....

keep up with daily 50% water changes and add that filter you're gonna ehem... borrow. also get some Prime Water Conditioner. It won't cycle your tank but it will alleviate any ammonia toxicity when overdosing it to condition the water.

Good luck and Welcome To Fishlore .
 
tzqng8
  • #3
Levels should ideally always stay at 0 for nitrites and nitrates....

Um, did you mean 0 for Ammonia & Nitrites? I think you want the Nitrates to be somewhere between 5-20? Just from what I have read...
 
Butterfly
  • #4
Um, did you mean 0 for Ammonia & Nitrites? I think you want the Nitrates to be somewhere between 5-20? Just from what I have read...
Yep when you have ammonia 0, Nitrites0 and some Nitrates your tank will be cycled. Live plants will help suck up the Nitrates.
Carol
 
Fish Addict
  • #5
If you can find prime, then you probably can find stability, which helps cycling
 
Alessa
  • #6
OOOPS! Sorry Yes, I meant 0 ammonia and nitrites nitrates under 20 (just corrected it btw)

So much studying... I can't even type!
 
Lucy
  • #7
Don't be so hard on yourself, you've made a mistake and have learned from it, that's what counts.
Your brother's filter media, if his tank is established, will be a great way to seed your tank.
I agree with the other, keep up the daily water changes.

Good luck.
 
Shawnie
  • #8
also something to mention, only "BORROW" a piece of the filter media or u will throw his tank into a minI cycle ;D
 
COBettaCouple
  • #9
You could also put some extra filter sponge in that established filter for a week to seed your uncycled tank.

Until the tank is cycled, I would do 50% daily water changes and I'd use Prime for the water conditioner.
 
goggles
  • #10
how big is the tank?
 
Evelyn1919
  • #11
just keep up with the 50% daily water changes.

good luck!!!
 
eric_m
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Goggles - the tank is 78 gallon.. I got a great deal on it and a perfect spot for it.. it acts as a room divider between the dinning and living room..

Shawnie - why would my brothers tank go to a minI cycle if I take his filter media is changed.. wouldnt the rocks and stuff in his tank have the good bacteria.. or does this happen when the filter media is changed? ill just use some of his substrate instead...

50% daily water change?? that seems excesesive but if that's what needs to be done that's the price for being impatient.. i'm still waiting for the nitrite or nitrate to start showing up.. testing for nitrites once a day.. my ammonia level is at .5 and seems to be maintained at that level after the water changes (testing Ammonia twice a day).. I've come up with a effiecient way for the water changes.. using the filter to do the job..

- Unplug the output hose (has a quick connect) and put into bucket.. dump bucket outside .. might as well water the plants... repeat like 5 times
- plug output hose, and unplug the input hose.. prepare water (temp and conditioner) put input hose in bucket until near empty... repeat like 5 times.. make sure temp matches to what's in the aquarium to minimize temp fluctuations.. I got a digital thermometer to get a more accurate reading
- this is with the Ehiem Classic..
 
eric_m
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
almost forgot.. since it is still going through a cycle.. are Cardinals really that sensitive? should I expect a high casualty rate.. and if so.. when does this usually occur.. if I keep my ammonia levels low (50% daily water change) will the tank ever cycle if the ammonia level stays low?
 
COBettaCouple
  • #14
Yea, unfortunately the water toxins can build up very quickly in an uncycled tank. But those 50% water changes help keep the levels down by daily diluting them.. and Prime works for about a day to lock the toxins, minimizing the toxin damage to your fish.
 
Shawnie
  • #15
Goggles - the tank is 78 gallon.. I got a great deal on it and a perfect spot for it.. it acts as a room divider between the dinning and living room..

Shawnie - why would my brothers tank go to a minI cycle if I take his filter media is changed.. wouldnt the rocks and stuff in his tank have the good bacteria.. or does this happen when the filter media is changed? ill just use some of his substrate instead...

50% daily water change?? that seems excesesive but if that's what needs to be done that's the price for being impatient.. i'm still waiting for the nitrite or nitrate to start showing up.. testing for nitrites once a day.. my ammonia level is at .5 and seems to be maintained at that level after the water changes (testing Ammonia twice a day).. I've come up with a effiecient way for the water changes.. using the filter to do the job..

- Unplug the output hose (has a quick connect) and put into bucket.. dump bucket outside .. might as well water the plants... repeat like 5 times
- plug output hose, and unplug the input hose.. prepare water (temp and conditioner) put input hose in bucket until near empty... repeat like 5 times.. make sure temp matches to what's in the aquarium to minimize temp fluctuations.. I got a digital thermometer to get a more accurate reading
- this is with the Ehiem Classic..

HI eric....IMO , and a lot of others also, MOST of your beneficial bacteria is in the filter media...yes some are on the rocks and decorations, but the filter is the majority of it...so YES it will go into a minI cycle if you change out the filter and put a new one in...but you can rip some of it off for your tank to help seed it faster filter is your best bet to "borrow" a lil bit ...as far as patience, I WAS SO THERE!! I knew nothing of the nitrogen cycle and with my 75 gallon, I was doing DAILY 50 % water changes for almost 9 weeks ...it was the pitts for sure, but it saved my fishies life...I wish the LFS either educated us more, or sold big jars of patience! goodluck
 
eric_m
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
I'm not sure if I can play ignorance on this one.. the first thing I did when I got the aquarium was checked the internet.. and I landed on this site.. I read about the cycle.. but once I had all the decorations up . .the urge to get the fishes grew.. Went to Big als for some supplies and BAM!! I had a bag of a dozens cardinals.. once those were in the tank I tottaly forgot about the cycle.. and like a kid in a candy store after recieving his/her birthday present.. I'm going with temporary insanity..

9 weeks!! i'm going to need more prime...
 
Shawnie
  • #17
I'm not sure if I can play ignorance on this one.. the first thing I did when I got the aquarium was checked the internet.. and I landed on this site.. I read about the cycle.. but once I had all the decorations up . .the urge to get the fishes grew.. Went to Big als for some supplies and BAM!! I had a bag of a dozens cardinals.. once those were in the tank I tottaly forgot about the cycle.. and like a kid in a candy store after recieving his/her birthday present.. I'm going with temporary insanity..

9 weeks!! i'm going to need more prime...

awwwww ...I know that feeling...but now, I keep plain old mesh sponges inside each of my filters so if and WHEN my MTS itchy finger takes over, I put those seeded sponges in the new tanks to move them along...I'm not saying 9 weeks will be your time frame, was just giving you an example of mine...I still have to do it 2-3 times a week because I'm overstocked, but it beats everyday!
 
Evelyn1919
  • #18
I think most of us have been through this so don't feel so bad about it. my tank was cycling for like 4 months and I was also doing 50% water changes. if you can you should get this it is really good and helps a lot with the water changes. I recently got it and I love it. it was a present from my b/f. before having it I was using 20gal buckets to take out and bring back water everyday and it was killing my back.

good luck!
 
tzqng8
  • #19
I think most of us have been through this so don't feel so bad about it. my tank was cycling for like 4 months and I was also doing 50% water changes. if you can you should get this it is really good and helps a lot with the water changes. I recently got it and I love it. it was a present from my b/f. before having it I was using 20gal buckets to take out and bring back water everyday and it was killing my back.

good luck!

Price alert! Price alert! Drs. Smith and Foster has a better price on the product. I ordered mine .

If JT Discount Store is a forum member's store or something, let me know. Not trying to hurt anyone.

Thanks!
 
eric_m
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
hI Evelyn,
I got a 20 ft tube and connect it to the output hose of the filter .. and the end goes to the sink in my bathroom.. or outside.. I figured it was more dramatic the other way.. but to fill the tank back I do the reverse.. but have to fill the bucket first so that I can monitor the temperature and premix the prime.. I'll try to take pictures when I get home tonight when I do a water change... but I have problems posting pics...
 
jdhef
  • #21
Eve

When using it, what do you do about water conditioner? Do you just put the conditioner in the tank after filling with water?

20 gallon buckets! With water weighing 8 pounds per gallon, I guess your back would be killing you!
 
04_si
  • #22
One of the first things I learned was patience.

my tank sat empty for 2 weeks, then I had just Serpae Tetra for 6 weeks.

As it sits now, I'm at 20" of fish, for my 20 gal tank. I'm working on the girlfriend to let me get another, as I want more fish so badly, hahaha.

Good luck, I hope everything works out
 
Evelyn1919
  • #23
Eve

When using it, what do you do about water conditioner? Do you just put the conditioner in the tank after filling with water?

20 gallon buckets! With water weighing 8 pounds per gallon, I guess your back would be killing you!

what I read on the instructions that come with the python they say that while you are filling your tank with water you should put the conditioner. they also say that the hose does something (I can't remember but something to do with air) that takes some of the clorine out of the water and the water conditioner works pretty fast too so that makes it fine for the fish. that's what someone else on this website told me to do also and it has been working just fine.
 
jdhef
  • #24
Thanks for the info. I may just spring for one of them.

John
 
tzqng8
  • #25
The idea is that the water is being aerated by the Python and thusly letting the Chlorine escape mostly. However, that is NOT true for Chloramine. Keep that in mind if your water has Chloramine rather than just Chlorine.
 
jdhef
  • #26
Excelent point.

John
 

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