65 Gallon Tank Nitrites confusion

AntuyON

Hi all,

First of all, sorry about this new thread, i know there should be many similars but i will keep lookong and reading after posting.

I am just confused and concern about what is happening to my cycle. Thing is, sadly i am doing a fish in cycle with 2 goldfish, i am constantly checking on them and they look healthy and active. Poop looks good too and so their appetite.

I have been cycling for about 1 month and a half or maybe more. The thing is, ammonia stop showing about 2+ weeks ago. I would say from around that time I havent manage to lower my nitrites level, they are off the chart along with nitrates and I am starting to worry about my goldfish health. I ve been doing prime daily since I start seeing ammonia at the beginning. Now I am daily dosing x5 doses of prime to my tank (6 caps) to avoid poisoning. 50% water change every day and still can manage to lower nitrite down. Actually something really weird happened that made me really come to a forum cause is very frustrating. Yesterday about this same hour I have done 2! 75% water change, my math says the water that was originally in the tank, went down to 12.5%, with a fresh 87.5% water. I managed to drop the nitrite to show a light purple color(0.5-1 ppm) and the nitrate back to a light orange( around 10-20 ppm). Still dosed with prime maybe 3 caps.

Today I have tested the water and it shows 0 ppm amonia, again an off the chart dark purple for nitrite 5+ ppm and a really high dark brown color on nitrate 80-160 ppm. How is this possible?!? They are only 2 goldfish, they eat 3 times a day 2 small amount of pellet which they eat within 5 min and 1 live food at night( bloodworm).

How is possible to get back the reading of 5+ppm nitrite and 80+ppm of nitrate? This makes me think nitrite is in fact converting but that much within 24 hr? And still getting high reading of nitrite?

I am very frustrated of this happening, I dont think its the water cause my other tank doesn't have any spikes and if functioning normally.

I need help to understand this cause I am giving up, every day I change the water and still. Its a big tank and it takes time, plus my water is usually warm( about 78-80 degrees) and pour it to the tank stresses the goldfish and raises the temperature from their 74, to 76-77. Yesterday I risk it big time and went up to 79. I really don't want nothing to happen to my babies.

Info about my tank and routine.
65 Gallon tank
Coarse sand
3 river rocks
Few plastic plants
Heater off ( house is warm ATM keeps water around 75 degrees)
Canister filter marineland C360

5 am - pellets (small amount to eat in 5min)
12 m - pellets (same as above)
5:30 pm - testing
6 pm - 50% water change (5x dose of Prime)
8 pm - bloodworm ( about 1 small cube) (Light off)

Edit:
Good to mention that on day one, I dosed whole of dr tim one and only for 120 gallons. Only thing it was for saltwater, shop didn't have for freshwater and can't find it on Amazon.

And I added aquarium salt to help fight nitrite, ( added 6 tbsp per water change. Don't want to add more since I don't have with how measure salt on water and don't want to make it too salty.

I would appreciate any answers
Thank you very much
Respectfully
 

mattgirl

Welcome to Fishlore :)

It is strange to see both nitrites and nitrates keep going up so quickly. One thing I would do is cut back to feeding the little guys to just once a day. 3 times a day really is too much. The more food, the more ammonia thus the more nitrites and nitrates. It seems the nitrites should have dropped in this length of time but for some folks it can take a couple of weeks. In my case I was doing water changes daily until they dropped from off the chart down to zero. it took 5 straight days of 40% water changes. When i ran the nitrite test before doing the water change on the 6th day I found they were finally zero. I know this is a lot of water to change but sometimes it is necessary.

I would cut the Prime down to a normal dose after the water changes and cut down on the amount you are feeding. What are you using to run your tests?
 
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AntuyON

Welcome to Fishlore :)

It is strange to see both nitrites and nitrates keep going up so quickly. One thing I would do is cut back to feeding the little guys to just once a day. 3 times a day really is too much. The more food, the more ammonia thus the more nitrites and nitrates. It seems the nitrites should have dropped in this length of time but for some folks it can take a couple of weeks. In my case I was doing water changes daily until they dropped from off the chart down to zero. it took 5 straight days of 40% water changes. When i ran the nitrite test before doing the water change on the 6th day I found they were finally zero. I know this is a lot of water to change but sometimes it is necessary.

I would cut the Prime down to a normal dose after the water changes and cut down on the amount you are feeding. What are you using to run your tests?

Hey,
Alright then, I will feed them once a day and hopefully this will help, I never see leftovers though

I am using API test kit.

I ordered tetra safest start plus and should be getting it today, should I pour the entire bottle to see if it helps?

Is good that with 4 water changes you got it to 0, ive been doing it for long time but still can't make it happen.

Thank you for your answer
 
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AlwaysTired

I was curious as to what the levels of everything are coming out of the tap, before you add anything.
 
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RayClem

Goldfish are very greedy when it comes to food. It is better to underfeed then than overfeed them.

At least your tank is a good size for two goldfish. Many people try keeping them in tanks that are far too small. When full grown, goldfish get quite large.

Since you are not measuring high levels of ammonia, I would recommend that you stop using Prime water conditioner except to condition the water used for water changes. The Prime does not help with high nitrites and nitrates as far as I am aware.

The primary method of reducing nitrates is through water changes. Since you have been overfeeding your fish, you might want to change water every day until the nitrite and nitrates start to go down. Once the nitrites get down below 0.25 ppm you can reduce the frequency of water changes, but try to keep the nitrates below 40ppm with 20 ppm max being even better.

Do check for ammonia and nitrates in your tap water. In some communities chloramine is used to disinfect the drinking water. That is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. If your water does have chloramine, doing frequent small water changes is better than large ones. Some communities have nitrates in the water due to runoff from agricultural operations.
 
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mattgirl

Hey,
Alright then, I will feed them once a day and hopefully this will help, I never see leftovers though

I am using API test kit.

I ordered tetra safest start plus and should be getting it today, should I pour the entire bottle to see if it helps?

Is good that with 4 water changes you got it to 0, ive been doing it for long time but still can't make it happen.

Thank you for your answer
Goldfish are little piggies and will eat all day long if we fed them that often :D Once a day really should be often enough.

TSS+ might help but we know you already have both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria so I don't know how much help it will actually be. Personally I wouldn't add it since it is simply adding more of the same bacteria you already have. The good thing though, adding it shouldn't hurt anything other than your bank account.

It was actually 5 daily water changes. The water changes didn't seem to be making a dent in the amount of nitrites. I ran the test each day before doing a water change. Each day for 5 days The chart was pegged out. When I ran the test on the 6th day though they had dropped to zero so no need to do the 6th one. It was at that point to where I went to weekly 50% water changes and that is where I still am today going on 6 years now.

It may have happened without the daily 40% water changes but That is what worked for me. I do think less food, less Prime and daily water changes will finish up this cycle. As I said, just add a normal dose of Prime to remove chlorine/chloramines from the tap water if you have them in your tap water. Some folks get water from their own well and don't have those things in it. Back when my tap water was personal well water I still used my water conditioner. I just consider it very inexpensive insurance. There really is no need to overdose the Prime.

Good job on getting the API liquid test kit. It is as accurate as we need for this process.
 
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AntuyON

I was curious as to what the levels of everything are coming out of the tap, before you add anything.
i thought about it but as i said, i have another tank that doesnt spike like this one.


Goldfish are little piggies and will eat all day long if we fed them that often :D Once a day really should be often enough.

TSS+ might help but we know you already have both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria so I don't know how much help it will actually be. Personally I wouldn't add it since it is simply adding more of the same bacteria you already have. The good thing though, adding it shouldn't hurt anything other than your bank account.

It was actually 5 daily water changes. The water changes didn't seem to be making a dent in the amount of nitrites. I ran the test each day before doing a water change. Each day for 5 days The chart was pegged out. When I ran the test on the 6th day though they had dropped to zero so no need to do the 6th one. It was at that point to where I went to weekly 50% water changes and that is where I still am today going on 6 years now.

It may have happened without the daily 40% water changes but That is what worked for me. I do think less food, less Prime and daily water changes will finish up this cycle. As I said, just add a normal dose of Prime to remove chlorine/chloramines from the tap water if you have them in your tap water. Some folks get water from their own well and don't have those things in it. Back when my tap water was personal well water I still used my water conditioner. I just consider it very inexpensive insurance. There really is no need to overdose the Prime.

Good job on getting the API liquid test kit. It is as accurate as we need for this process.
I have pour the TSS+ into the tank. i got it from amazon, sadly the bottle was warm, about 87 degrees, hopefully it didnt kill the bacteria.

i will keep doing 50% WC daily to see if i see any changes and keep you guys updated. i will start feeding once a day and add only 1 dose of Prime to see if i see any improvement. i think what it can be happening too is that with the 5 dosages of prime i am in a way lowering the real nitrite reading on my test kit and after 24 it just reapear, but i am still concern how a basically 82.5% WC still got me off the chart after 24 hr. does the detoxified nitrite sink to the bottom of the tank? is the only thought i have on why it reapeared after 24hr since my water extractor was placed about 6 inches above the bottom of the tank

Thank you very much for all your answer, i am new in the hobby and i've been strungling with every aspect of it, water parameter, deseases, feeding etc haha.
 
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mattgirl

i thought about it but as i said, i have another tank that doesnt spike like this one.
How big is this tank. What kind and how many fish do you have in it? If it is fully cycled and has a decent size bio-load you may be able to use it to help you with this one.
I have pour the TSS+ into the tank. i got it from amazon, sadly the bottle was warm, about 87 degrees, hopefully it didnt kill the bacteria.
I don't know how heat affects this brand of bacteria in a bottle. It is possible you just poured dead bacteria in the tank. Still shouldn't be a problem. You will be water changing it back out.
i will keep doing 50% WC daily to see if i see any changes and keep you guys updated. i will start feeding once a day and add only 1 dose of Prime to see if i see any improvement. i think what it can be happening too is that with the 5 dosages of prime i am in a way lowering the real nitrite reading on my test kit and after 24 it just reapear, but i am still concern how a basically 82.5% WC still got me off the chart after 24 hr. does the detoxified nitrite sink to the bottom of the tank? is the only thought i have on why it reapeared after 24hr since my water extractor was placed about 6 inches above the bottom of the tank
Good thoughts but it doesn't work like that. Prime doesn't lower anything. It is supposed to simply detox ammonia making low amounts of it safer for fish. I am not convinced that it does anything for nitrites and nitrates other than giving a false sense of security.

No it isn't going to sink to the bottom. It is even less likely as long as the filter is running and is keeping the water moving. What filter are you running on this tank? Is it possible it isn't effective enough to handle the waste of the goldfish you have in this tank? You can never have too much filtration but it is possible to not have enough.

Thank you very much for all your answer, i am new in the hobby and i've been strungling with every aspect of it, water parameter, deseases, feeding etc haha.
[/QUOTE]
 
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AntuyON

How big is this tank. What kind and how many fish do you have in it? If it is fully cycled and has a decent size bio-load you may be able to use it to help you with this one.

I don't know how heat affects this brand of bacteria in a bottle. It is possible you just poured dead bacteria in the tank. Still shouldn't be a problem. You will be water changing it back out.

Good thoughts but it doesn't work like that. Prime doesn't lower anything. It is supposed to simply detox ammonia making low amounts of it safer for fish. I am not convinced that it does anything for nitrites and nitrates other than giving a false sense of security.

No it isn't going to sink to the bottom. It is even less likely as long as the filter is running and is keeping the water moving. What filter are you running on this tank? Is it possible it isn't effective enough to handle the waste of the goldfish you have in this tank? You can never have too much filtration but it is possible to not have enough.

Thank you very much for all your answer, i am new in the hobby and i've been strungling with every aspect of it, water parameter, deseases, feeding etc haha.
[/QUOTE]
The other tank is 37 gallon, is runnin 2 sponge filter and carries 5 baby guppies, 3 guppies (few died and had camalanus worm and had to quarintune all fish) and 5 mollies (1 i just bought from the pet store and when the girl picked up didnt reallize its extremelly skinny thin paper skinny and i quarintine it for few days too cause i dont want camalanus worm to reapear.

This tank is not so old either, its been running almost same time as the other one maybe couple weeks older.

The 65 gallon is running with a filter canister of marineland that i mentioned in the original post C360 i believe. Its supposed to run up to a 100 gallon
 
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mattgirl

The other tank is 37 gallon, is runnin 2 sponge filter and carries 5 baby guppies, 3 guppies (few died and had camalanus worm and had to quarintune all fish) and 5 mollies (1 i just bought from the pet store and when the girl picked up didnt reallize its extremelly skinny thin paper skinny and i quarintine it for few days too cause i dont want camalanus worm to reapear.

This tank is not so old either, its been running almost same time as the other one maybe couple weeks older.

The 65 gallon is running with a filter canister of marineland that i mentioned in the original post C360 i believe. Its supposed to run up to a 100 gallon
Gotcha. Moving anything from that tank to this one isn't a good idea.

Unfortunately the folks that make our filters often highly over rate them. I am running 2 HOB filters on my 55 gallon tank that are rated for up to a 100 gallon tank. There is no way one would be enough for even my 55 gallon tank thus the reason for running 2 of them along with 2 sponge filters. I don't have goldfish but my tank is over stocked so needs lots of filtration.

I hate to spend other peoples money but I am going to recommend you either add a couple of big sponge filters or some type of HOB if you don't see some positive results from the water changes over the next few days. Lots of folks seem to like the aquaclear line of HOB filters. For this size goldfish tank I will recommend you get the 110 and run it along with the filter you already have.

You might be surprised if you read all the times simply upgrading the filtration solved cycling issues. The ammonia and nitrites need to be pulled through the filter media for the bacteria to work as efficiently as it needs to do.
 
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AntuyON

I have an extra HOB filter from the 37 gallon tank but it was never used cause i wanted to do sponge filter for the guppies, i might install it to my 65, the only concern is that since i built a canopy for that tank i dont know how it will fit into the tank.
 
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mattgirl

I have an extra HOB filter from the 37 gallon tank but it was never used cause i wanted to do sponge filter for the guppies, i might install it to my 65, the only concern is that since i built a canopy for that tank i dont know how it will fit into the tank.
Sponge filters may be the answer if a HOB can't be installed. They can be unsightly but often can be hidden behind items in the tank. Mine are behind plants. I really do think more filtration will help in this case.
 
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AntuyON

Hello all,

first of all, thank you everyone for your answers. I just want to update this thread and close it as problem solved!!. the tank has already reached 0 ppm of ammonia and 0 ppm nitrite yesterday. i follow mattgirl advise on no dosing more than 1 dose of prime and did 2 or 3 days water changes after that, after the 3rd day i could tell nitrite level dropped to a readable measurement, around 0.5-1 ppm, i didn't perform a water change after that to see its improvement over the days and after 2 more days I had 0 ppm reading. today I will perform 50% water change and install a sponge filter to have extra filtration and to have 1 extra seeded for futures breeding/quarantine tank. I will study water quality over 1 week to see if any spike happens with 3 small meals a day.

if in 1 week I don't see any spikes I will add 1 more to the family!, but so far so good. I would say tank is near to finish the cycle. and say near because levels were still dropping quite slow but its a sign of improvement transforming nitrites to nitrates.

Thank you!!.
 
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mattgirl

Hello all,

first of all, thank you everyone for your answers. I just want to update this thread and close it as problem solved!!. the tank has already reached 0 ppm of ammonia and 0 ppm nitrite yesterday. i follow mattgirl advise on no dosing more than 1 dose of prime and did 2 or 3 days water changes after that, after the 3rd day i could tell nitrite level dropped to a readable measurement, around 0.5-1 ppm, i didn't perform a water change after that to see its improvement over the days and after 2 more days I had 0 ppm reading. today I will perform 50% water change and install a sponge filter to have extra filtration and to have 1 extra seeded for futures breeding/quarantine tank. I will study water quality over 1 week to see if any spike happens with 3 small meals a day.

if in 1 week I don't see any spikes I will add 1 more to the family!, but so far so good. I would say tank is near to finish the cycle. and say near because levels were still dropping quite slow but its a sign of improvement transforming nitrites to nitrates.

Thank you!!.
This is great news. I love reading happy endings. Give the cycle plenty of time to get firmly established now. Clean only as much as really needed. Skim the surface of the substrate if necessary but don't deep clean it. Rinse filter media only if it really needs it. As long as water is still flowing through it freely don't rinse it.
 
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