Nitrates Before Nitrites

The other day my little tells me to pull out and clean my dusty tank and we purchase a beautiful Betta, called Kirby.

I'm sorry, I'm bipolar. Need your help and some recommendations here.

Aug. 22nd. Fish-in cycle, like I said. I believe in cycle starters. Used stability before with great success, this time in store bought bio-support - brand Big Al's. I don't know if you're familiar with it.

Used double dosages after initial large dosage. Was almost on the bottom of the bottle and decided to go back to trusty Seachem Stability.

I was feeding small amounts every other day to get to 1ppm ammonia or even 2ppm. Guide didn't tell me where I should be, in which range.

By 4th day, I had ammonia reading of .5ppm.

6th day, scum bubbles were forming on top and I took out some water (maybe .5G not to remove any forming BB) and replaced with new dechlorinated water. Important note: I've been using Prime to neutralize A/N/N. Recommended dosages per guide.

I even increased filter flow to help the cycle. It was the lowest and now highest. From 5-20G, Aqua Clear brand.

NitrItes, 0!!! Started feeding more to kick the BB in gear, so they are not starved.

Tested the nitratEs for no good reason and it was hard to tell between colors - 10 to 20. Read the net! Checked the source, 0!!!!

As I've been feeding more and we are expecting?? ammonia spike, will I see nitrItes appear (others said it is easy to skip this rise and fall of nitrItes)? I know it's been asked but each case is unique, right?

I just don't want to fail.

Today 31st, doubled dosage of stability and fewer flakes! Amm. at 1ppm!

Any insight guys? Any questions, I'll be more than glad to share the info.

Did I say I'm bipolar lol - sorry for a long post and thank you for reading, my new family.

Worried and Impatient Sonny

 

Using bottled bacteria can cause distorted effects. I would say you're on the right track, you shouldn't need to dose the bottle bacteria anymore(if you do, dose your filter, not the tank, and turn off the filter for like 15 min during) just control your feeding and watch your ammonia.

 

HI MrBryan723,

Thank you for your input. It's greatly valued. Do you know how my tank will take turns?

Will I see a huge spike in amm.? I won't overfeed any longer. Small pinch every two days. Am I shooting for some specific level of amm. Ie 2ppm??

NitrAtes before NitrItes? Should I expect a rise in next week or so or it is the doing of a BB?

Or, don't be a nervous Sally, feed little and give it a week or two.

Should I filter less as Bettas do not like mechanically made currents, too much that is?

Thanks again MrBryan. You are a life saver!

Kind regards,
Sonny

Using bottled bacteria can cause distorted effects. I would say you're on the right track, you shouldn't need to dose the bottle bacteria anymore(if you do, dose your filter, not the tank, and turn off the filter for like 15 min during) just control your feeding and watch your ammonia.

 

Since you have a fish in there the cycle is important but not as important as keeping him safe through the cycling process.

Instead of hoping the ammonia and nitrites go up if this were my fish I would keep them as low as possible with water changes. No reading for ammonia would be best but often hard to accomplish.

Since you added bottled bacteria it is possible that you will never have a nitrite spike. If you have tested your source water and have not found nitrates there then either the nitrates are coming from the bottled bacteria or you now have ammonia/nitrite eating bacteria.

My advice: Keep the ammonia down as low as possible with water changes. Add enough Prime with each water change for the full 10 gallons of water in the tank no matter how much you are changing. Once the cycle is done you can go back to just adding enough to treat the amount of water you are replacing. Prime will detox the ammonia for up to 48 hours but it will still be there to feed the bacteria.

What ever you do don't let the ammonia get up to one. If you do start seeing nitrites add that number to the amount of ammonia. If the total is one or above do a water change to get them back down below one. The prime will detox that low number and will protect your new water pet.

Some folks say a tank won't cycle if the ammonia is kept low with water changes. I say, as long as there is a fish in a tank there is a steady supply of ammonia being produced so their will always be ammonia in there to feed the cycle. There will be just enough to grow and feed the right amount of bacteria for the amount of ammonia being produced.

Hopefully you understand what I am saying.

 

How big is the tank? The smaller the tank the more often you will have to change water.

 

I just wanted to be the first to say...Welcome to FishLore! I hope you find the site helpful

 

HI MrBryant,

A very detailed msg. up there! Thanks. Took your advice immediately and syphoned the uneaten food (quite a lot). 25 perc. WC I'd say.
It's a 10G tank. Put in prime .5ml to treat 5gallons. More than req., did I understand you from your previous message?

That's for starters. Feed small and every other day, right.

WC - how often and how much would you say, please?

I really appreciate your help. Just to put that out there!!!!!!

Sonny

 

most ppl that used bottled bacteria report not seeing any nitrites during cycling.

use an extra dose of Prime to detox ammonia for up to 48hrs. after 48hrs, do a test, do 50% water change if needed and use Prime. repeat.

 

Thanks for your recommendation Skavatar! Appreciate it.

most ppl that used bottled bacteria report not seeing any nitrites during cycling.

use an extra dose of Prime to detox ammonia for up to 48hrs. after 48hrs, do a test, do 50% water change if needed and use Prime. repeat.

HI guys,

Been a while since I had a cycled tank with a male cichlid! When I syphoned the gravel I took a lot out. BB stayed behind in the substrate, some mixed reports/opinions from keepers.

When I was pouring new dech. water treated w. prime, I showered on top of decorations and realized that there is a lot left. No worries, just get it next time??

Should I do better clean up before tank cycles like as in to remove decorations?

Filter couldn't suck it all up as it has like a black foam on top of intake tube so that my "poor swimmer Betta doesn't get sucked to it again??"

What do you think?

Thanks for all posts!

Sonny

 

If you cut down on feeding so much there shouldn't be too much building up there so just be sure to use your gravel vac with each water change and before long you should be able to get most of it out of there.

 

Mattgirl,

Great suggestion. Thanks. Could you read my above post about water c.? Amm. was 1 now is 0.5. 1 Betta fish, 10G tank. That's a tough summary of a treat. Cycling it now for about 9 days.

If you cut down on feeding so much there shouldn't be too much building up there so just be sure to use your gravel vac with each water change and before long you should be able to get most of it out of there.

 

Mattgirl,

Great suggestion. Thanks. Could you read my above post about water c.? Amm. was 1 now is 0.5. 1 Betta fish, 10G tank. That's a tough summary of a treat. Cycling it now for about 9 days.

If you mean how often to do a water change and how much to change. Let your test numbers be your guide. There is no specific time limit. If your ammonia goes up to one do a water change to get it back down. Personally I would never let it get even that high. Personally I would try my best to keep it at zero with daily water changes if that is what it took.

 

Skavatar,

So sorry that I've asked the same question but to the different member. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Sorry about that!!

most ppl that used bottled bacteria report not seeing any nitrites during cycling.

use an extra dose of Prime to detox ammonia for up to 48hrs. after 48hrs, do a test, do 50% water change if needed and use Prime. repeat.

 

HI Mattgirl,

I'm basing my decisions on a guide that is Fish-in guide and to only use Prime to neutralize and not worry much about WC's.

Question, if I try to keep it at zero or near, will I starve my BB? But, fish and feedings will still be there to feed BB, so I should be fine. Riiight??

Thanks in advance.

If you mean how often to do a water change and how much to change. Let your test numbers be your guide. There is no specific time limit. If your ammonia goes up to one do a water change to get it back down. Personally I would never let it get even that high. Personally I would try my best to keep it at zero with daily water changes if that is what it took.

 

HI Mattgirl,

I'm basing my decisions on a guide that is Fish-in guide and to only use Prime to neutralize and not worry much about WC's.

Question, if I try to keep it at zero or near, will I starve my BB? But, fish and feedings will still be there to feed BB, so I should be fine. Riiight??

Thanks in advance.

I actually answered all of this in my first post on this thread.

 

I actually answered all of this in my first post on this thread.

I don't know! I'm lost in space and stressed and probably not getting the whole concept.

My question was specifically re: survival of benefiting bacteria if I go down that low with ammonia .

Didn't mean to erk you, I promise. You are the one helping me here.

Thanks again Mattgirl.
Sonny

 

I don't know! I'm lost in space and stressed and probably not getting the whole concept.

My question was specifically re: survival of benefiting bacteria if I go down that low with ammonia .

Didn't mean to erk you, I promise. You are the one helping me here.

Thanks again Mattgirl.
Sonny

Not irked at all . I just can't explain it any better than that. When I cycled my last tank I never got an ammonia reading because I kept it too low for the test to pick it up. The tank completed its cycle all the way from a dry tank to fully cycled in 6 weeks.

Even if you keep the ammonia too low for the test to register any there will still be enough in there between water changes to feed and grow bacteria.

 

I was in Wal-Mart a few ago Mattgirl and was thinking that I surely misspelled "irked" hihihi.

Thanks for reassurance though. I'll keep up on the WC's as that is what you all are suggesting. Made it more clear for me!

Much love!
Sonny

Not irked at all . I just can't explain it any better than that. When I cycled my last tank I never got an ammonia reading because I kept it too low for the test to pick it up. The tank completed its cycle all the way from a dry tank to fully cycled in 6 weeks.

Even if you keep the ammonia too low for the test to register any there will still be enough in there between water changes to feed and grow bacteria.

 

Dear Worried and Impatient,

First, don't worry! Second, don't be impatient! Cycling a tank is the epitome of patience.

Correct me if I can't follow, but you're doing a fish in cycle with one Betta in a 10 gallon tank. Right?

Slow down, and reread what advice you have already been given.

What test kit are you using? Are you following all the instructions to the "T"? How much, and how often are you feeding?

If you're lucky, you can do a fish in cycle in about 4 weeks. Usually, no more than 6 weeks. It all depends on your water chemistry.

It's really simple. Feed very sparingly. Test daily. Do water changes and vacuum as needed.

For water changes, for every percent of water you remove, you will get the same percent of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates removed. Don't worry about losing your BB with a water change, or vacuuming. The amount you remove will be negligible.

Don't change your filter! That will crash your cycle. The filter is where the greatest majority of the BB live. Rinse your filter media in the old water from your water change.

As has already been stated, the health of your fish is more important than anything else.

Keep treating with Prime or equivalent. Keep treating with the bottled bacteria of your choice.

My philosophy is, any ammonia >0.25 gets a 75% water change. Any nitrites at all gets a 75% wc. When nitrates are >20, I do a wc. Every wc gets a vacuum.

I just cycled my 20 gallon with 5 fish and 4 snails in exactly 4 weeks, to the day. There were times I did water changes every day. In fact, it was almost every day, every day. Every wc, I dosed with Prime and Stability, for 20g, my tank capacity, not the amount of water I was replacing.

I started on July 18 and had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and >5 nitrates on August 18. It's been like that since.

As "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" says, "Don't Panic".

Best of luck to you!

 

Mongo75, Hiii!

Thank you for taking time to write to me and calm me down.

As you are all trying to help me out and I really look the looks and personality of Kirby (the fish), I'll answer now and give even more insight.

1 Betta in 10G tank. Started on the 22nd.
Testing w/Master API tubes.
Feeding just a small, small pinch every other day. I got confusing info where we should have a lot of ammonia 1-2ppm at first, to feed that hungry bacteria. I started feeding more and I think every day. I have a log but poor short mem. so I don't even know if I log tsk tsk.
Used big Al's bio-support first and now stability. Usually more is better for me!! Double dosing and stuff.
Around 5th day I see nitrAtes in water, about 20ppm. It was hard to decipher bet. colors.
Read around the net! I tested the source and it is 0. Testing for nitrItes as ammonia is slowly but surely rising to 1ppm. NitrItes nowhere to be found!
Reg. here and started asking questions.
Changed .25%of water and vac'd of course. Primed 1 dose for the whole 10G and not for 1/4. Tested w API again - amm from 1 to .5 - NitrAtes from 10-20 down to .5.

My plan is to keep testing and change water. How frequently, have no blooodyyy idea. Go with flow according to the results I guess!!

Any input is welcomed. Kirby says thaaaaanks.

Mongo, special shout out goes to you for that "marvelous" post!

Dear Worried and Impatient,

First, don't worry! Second, don't be impatient! Cycling a tank is the epitome of patience.

Correct me if I can't follow, but you're doing a fish in cycle with one Betta in a 10 gallon tank. Right?

Slow down, and reread what advice you have already been given.

What test kit are you using? Are you following all the instructions to the "T"? How much, and how often are you feeding?

If you're lucky, you can do a fish in cycle in about 4 weeks. Usually, no more than 6 weeks. It all depends on your water chemistry.

It's really simple. Feed very sparingly. Test daily. Do water changes and vacuum as needed.

For water changes, for every percent of water you remove, you will get the same percent of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates removed. Don't worry about losing your BB with a water change, or vacuuming. The amount you remove will be negligible.

Don't change your filter! That will crash your cycle. The filter is where the greatest majority of the BB live. Rinse your filter media in the old water from your water change.

As has already been stated, the health of your fish is more important than anything else.

Keep treating with Prime or equivalent. Keep treating with the bottled bacteria of your choice.

My philosophy is, any ammonia >0.25 gets a 75% water change. Any nitrites at all gets a 75% wc. When nitrates are >20, I do a wc. Every wc gets a vacuum.

I just cycled my 20 gallon with 5 fish and 4 snails in exactly 4 weeks, to the day. There were times I did water changes every day. In fact, it was almost every day, every day. Every wc, I dosed with Prime and Stability, for 20g, my tank capacity, not the amount of water I was replacing.

I started on July 18 and had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and >5 nitrates on August 18. It's been like that since.

As "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" says, "Don't Panic".

Best of luck to you!

 

Mongo75, Hiii!

Thank you for taking time to write to me and calm me down.

As you are all trying to help me out and I really look the looks and personality of Kirby (the fish), I'll answer now and give even more insight.

1 Betta in 10G tank. Started on the 22nd.
Testing w/Master API tubes.
Feeding just a small, small pinch every other day. I got confusing info where we should have a lot of ammonia 1-2ppm at first, to feed that hungry bacteria. I started feeding more and I think every day. I have a log but poor short mem. so I don't even know if I log tsk tsk.
Used big Al's bio-support first and now stability. Usually more is better for me!! Double dosing and stuff.
Around 5th day I see nitrAtes in water, about 20ppm. It was hard to decipher bet. colors.
Read around the net! I tested the source and it is 0. Testing for nitrItes as ammonia is slowly but surely rising to 1ppm. NitrItes nowhere to be found!
Reg. here and started asking questions.
Changed .25%of water and vac'd of course. Primed 1 dose for the whole 10G and not for 1/4. Tested w API again - amm from 1 to .5 - NitrAtes from 10-20 down to .5.

My plan is to keep testing and change water. How frequently, have no blooodyyy idea. Go with flow according to the results I guess!!

Any input is welcomed. Kirby says thaaaaanks.

Mongo, special shout out goes to you for that "marvelous" post!

I suspected the API kit. Make sure you shake nitrate solution #2 for a full 30 seconds before dropping it into the tube, and then shake the tube a full minute before letting it rest for 5 minutes, then compare it to the chart. This will insure no false readings

 

I suspected the API kit. Make sure you shake nitrate solution #2 for a full 30 seconds before dropping it into the tube, and then shake the tube a full minute before letting it rest for 5 minutes, then compare it to the chart. This will insure no false readings

Hey there,

Yeppers!!! Done that. Shook the out of bottles. Mixed well and let it sit for 5.

Thanks for the tip though; very useful.

 

Hey there,

Yeppers!!! Done that. Shook the **** out of bottles. Mixed well and let it sit for 5.

Thanks for the tip though; very useful.

HI all,

Haven't written for a while! Ready to give you an update: ammonia was all the way up to .5ppm and NitrItes were rising slowly but surely. Today's readings were .25 amm (a drop WO WC) and NitrItes spiked from .25 to .5. I think it this way: once ammonia is down at 0 and NitrItes are at 0 (I had NitrAtes reading a long ago so I'm not phased re: that), I can consider the cycle completed.
Anyone knows how long before I reach zeroes? I have a Kirby (9 yr. olds pet) in there so that's why I'm asking. If it was fishless, I'd surely not bother you with a stupid question and would wait it out.
Any reply would be welcomed!

Many thanks,
Sonny