Nitrate Drama - Help On How To Lower Nitrates

Hello Everyone,
Sorry to continuously post noob questions, this one concerns nitrates. A couple of weeks ago, I posted about my black skirts acting weirdly. I have since made the following changes to my tank:

-installed a nitrate-removing filter pad into my filter
-switched to frozen food as opposed to flake food, and fed *very* sparingly. I also break one algae wafer in half and drop it in each day to supply my algae eaters with food. The wafer halves are always gone by the end of the day.
-stopped messing with stuff (no water changes for about three weeks, no filter rinse except one of the new nitrate pad)

My nitrates are pushing 40 (the test came back 0-0-40 just a little while ago). I have been told to do partial water changes, and I have been told to leave the water alone. I have been told to clean or change the filter cartridge, and I have been told to leave them alone. I am *very* confused and concerned.

My tank is 36 gallons. I have one little plant in there, which is beginning to propagate, as well as a marimo moss ball. I don't think either plant is dead or decaying. I have a school of 5 black skirt tetras and two golden algae eaters.

Is it possible that the algae wafers are contributing to this problem? If I stop with the wafers, what will the algae eaters eat?

Thanks for any and all help!
-J

 

Algae wafers can really mess with water quality I’d go easy on them

 

A few things I would switch back to primarily flake food with a supplement of frozen food. The reason is that frozen food doesn’t have a complete nutritional profile that fish need to survive and will eventually develop vitamin deficiencies. I’ll address the filter changes point first. Carbon losses most of its effectiveness after about 2 weeks and become useless after 30 days. If you don’t mind not running carbon in your system( many people don’t use any chemical filtration and have perfectly healthy tanks) if you don’t want to have a chemical filtration don’t change your pad until the filter floss starts to fall apart. When you do change the filter cut off strips of filterfloss from the pad and attach it to the new filter cartrage, this will make the new cartrage get all the bennificial bacteria much quicker. The reason you wouldn’t change the cartrage is because this is where a lot of the beneficial bacteria live and this detoxifies the harmful chemicals of ammonia and nitrite into nitrate( it is dangerous in higher amount but nowhere near as dangerous as the other two). Next pint is the water changes. Yes always keep up with the partial water changes, this is the only way that we can effectively lower the nitrate levels, I would start doing regular water changes and aI'm for consistently <20 ppm nitrates, this is a healthy level for fish. And yes I would do less algas wafers they can dirty up you water pretty quickly as they break apart.

 

A few things I would switch back to primarily flake food with a supplement of frozen food. The reason is that frozen food doesn’t have a complete nutritional profile that fish need to survive and will eventually develop vitamin deficiencies

I should probably be more specific - I use the San Francisco Bay Brand MultI Pack (contains "Freshwater Frenzy," "Emerald Entree," "Bloodworms," and "Spirulina Brine Shrimp." I took all four cubes, thawed them slightly, mushed them all together into one big blob, and stuck them back in the freezer. This was my attempt at getting them a little bit of everything in each feeding. Would you still recommend dropping some flakes in there?

I will cut back on the algae wafers, but will this mess up my algae eaters? Thank you very much for your assistance!
-J

Algae wafers can really mess with water quality I’d go easy on them

So, what do you recommend I do to accommodate my algae eaters? I will do a couple water changes in the next couple days to bring the nitrates back down and stop with the wafers.....and see what happens.
-J

 

That combination should get most of the nutrients but I would still start feeding a little bit of flakes to be on the safe side. How large are the gold algae eaters right now? If they aren’t full grown you can do half of one every other day and if you have lights on the tank leave it on a little longer to support a small amount of additional algae growth for them to eat. The problem with the algae wafers is they will break apart and sink into the substrate so while the algae eaters could be eating some of them, a lot could just be falling into the substrate.

 

Some folks swear by lava rocks or seachem matrix (pumice) to reduce nitrates via denitrifying bacteria . I’m experimenting with them now. I have the same problem and water changes don’t help because sometimes there is 80ppm in the tap! Nitrazorb has worked for me to help get it under control until I figure out a more natural way. I don’t even put it in my filter but over a strong bubbler. Plants help but not enough. I have a ton of pothos. Try holding off on the tabs- the algae eaters should eat algae in your tank. If light is strong you shouldn’t need to give more. Boil a bit of lettuce if you want- will mess less with water quality

 

That combination should get most of the nutrients but I would still start feeding a little bit of flakes to be on the safe side. How large are the gold algae eaters right now? If they aren’t full grown you can do half of one every other day and if you have lights on the tank leave it on a little longer to support a small amount of additional algae growth for them to eat. The problem with the algae wafers is they will break apart and sink into the substrate so while the algae eaters could be eating some of them, a lot could just be falling into the substrate.

Cool. Thank you for your advice! The algae eaters are pretty well grown, probably two or three inches in length each. One has clearly asserted its dominance over the other, but they don't really fight. I do have lights on the top of the tank, which are LEDs. Should I allow a small amount of sunlight into the room? The algae eaters are *extremely* efficient at, well, eating algae.

Some folks swear by lava rocks or seachem matrix (pumice) to reduce nitrates via denitrifying bacteria . I’m experimenting with them now. I have the same problem and water changes don’t help because sometimes there is 80ppm in the tap! Nitrazorb has worked for me to help get it under control until I figure out a more natural way. I don’t even put it in my filter but over a strong bubbler. Plants help but not enough. I have a ton of pothos. Try holding off on the tabs- the algae eaters should eat algae in your tank. If light is strong you shouldn’t need to give more. Boil a bit of lettuce if you want- will mess less with water quality

Thank you for the suggestions! The water out of my tap is pretty low in nitrates; my 5.5 gallon betta tank has consistent measurements of 0-0-0.

 

Yeah just keep the light on a little more and cut back the feeding to every 2-3 days they will eat the excess algae, adding extra light is your choice, the leg light should be sufficient for algae growth. And to add on to rainbow sprinkles post I have also had success slowing down nitrate buildup by the addition of purigen in my filter. That’s only if it will fit in your filtration system.

 

My nitrates are pushing 40 (the test came back 0-0-40 just a little while ago).

If it's been 3 weeks since your last water change, that's still a very low accumulation of nitrate per week (10-15 ppm). I've no idea why someone suggested not to do partial water changes, but for most aquariums, water changes are the primary pathway for nitrate removal and weekly/fortnightly water changes is considered necessary routine maintenance (as others have mentioned in this thread).

While you could use certain chemical/biological filtration media, it seems that more frequent water changes are likely to be more effective and somewhat easier.

 

If it's been 3 weeks since your last water change, that's still a very low accumulation of nitrate per week (10-15 ppm). I've no idea why someone suggested not to do partial water changes, but for most aquariums, water changes are the primary pathway for nitrate removal and weekly/fortnightly water changes is considered necessary routine maintenance (as others have mentioned in this thread).

While you could use certain chemical/biological filtration media, it seems that more frequent water changes are likely to be more effective and somewhat easier.

Thank you, Minnowette! I typically do a 25% water change monthly. I have been told that changing the water, even at this frequency, messes up the ecosystem and biological filter. As I am a noob, I'm not sure who/what to put stock in. I will have to do a couple of water changes to bring the nitrate level back down into safe levels, which I will do tomorrow and Saturday. I would rather not add unnecessary chemicals to my water, other than water conditioner, so my current plan of attack is to lay off the algae wafers and continue my schedule of 25% water change each month. What do you think about that?

 

I have been told that changing the water, even at this frequency, messes up the ecosystem and biological filter.

If your tap water is generally of similar quality to your tank water, then that's very unlikely to occur. For example, people using the Estimative Index of dosing fertiliser in planted tanks routine change 50% water every week to remove accumulated, unused fertiliser. There are thousands upon thousands of planted tank aquarists at planted tank who utilise 50% weekly water changes, and there's been no long-term reported issue. Likewise, Discus owners often target 50% water changes every day in order to maintain a high degree of cleanliness.

What do you think about that?

That's an excellent idea. You could definitely choose to use chemical/biological filtration media (it's not an actual chemical additive as in a liquid, it's just filter media whose mechanism of action is via chemical reaction; carbon media is considered a chemical media as an example). Matrix has been suggested, but Seachem Purigen or Seachem Denitrate are both quite effective. They trap nitrogenous waste and prevent it from being processed into ammonia (and then into nitrite and nitrate). Purigen also has the effect of "water polishing", giving your water a high degree of clarity.

It's all passive intervention, and from what I remember, both Purigen and Denitrate can be recharged by immersing in a concentrated bleach solution.

 

25 percent a month is not enough according to just about everything I've ever read.

 

25 percent a month is not enough according to just about everything I've ever read.

I have the distinct impression that this advice may have been offered from the perspective of marine aquariums, where a single 25-35% water change per month seems to be the norm.

It's true that frequent and large water changes can be disruptive to a saltwater ecosystem. But this doesn't apply to freshwater aquariums.

 

Or the walstad method of a planted tank also has fewer water changes if in balance

 

Minnow nailed it again.

I do 50% water changes weekly in all of my tanks, no better way to reduce nitrates.

In my heavily stocked tanks I do 50%, 2Xs a week.

Although under 20ppm is optimal, all of my tanks get to, or near 40ppm before the water change.

And about every 6-8 weeks I do back to back to back (3 days in a row) 50% WCs to reset nitrates to around 10ppm.

My fish love it.

And frozen food is a great boast of protein but flake/pellets should be the staple. More rounded diet.

For my plecos I add a slice of cucumber, 2Xs a week and leave it in the tank for 2 days. Don’t know if your algae eaters will eat them but my plecos, nerite snails, Mystery snails all love zucchini.

 

Thanks to all of you who have offered advice! I will proceed with water changes.

I am also concerned that this tank seems to have a high mortality rate for new fish. Under the same conditions (though in 78 degree water instead of the current 75), I have tried to add, and killed:
-three different angelfish (PetSmart has a 14 day return polcy)
-three or four different gourami

I have also had a rainbow shark die, even after surviving an ich outbreak. I'd really like to add some more colorful fish, as the only inhabitants are the 5 black skirts and the two algae eaters. I figured that the nitrates might be the culprit - would it be worthwhile to bring a test tube and some nitrate test solution to the pet store and test their water before making any purchases? When I ask them what the levels of their water is, they just dip a test strip in. There is also a local aquarium store, but these are the folks who told me to switch exclusively to frozen food, and who said to knock it off with the water changes. In their defense, they deal mainly with salt water (as mentioned by minnowette).

 

I had old tank syndrome and nitrates in the HUNDREDS. Too high to show up on any tests, so I'd guess well over 300. It took months for me to get it down and I lost some awesome fish in the process. Doing it too fast stresses the fish who are used to the nigh nitrates. I lost a big gold gourami and a 9in common pleco. Your new fish are dying because they're not adapted to the high nitrates like your old fish are.

I tried 25-30% water changes every 3 days for weeks - nothing.
Nitrate removing pad - nothing.
Pothos - nothing.

I did a few 75% water changes. Really big ones. This helped.
Finally I removed all my decor with holes and washed them in tank water, they had sooooooo much detritus stuck inside that I had no idea was there. My filter as well. This made a good dent in the nitrates and they began coming down. This is also when my plants began kicking in.
When I added a whole bunch of pothos plant at the beginning, I didn't see a change for a month or so with that. Apparently a lot of it will die off and regrow so it can adapt to living in water. This keeps my nitrates at about 20 now.

I think the answer is PLANTS! Get as much as you can and wait. If the fish aren't really bothered (they can stand a pretty high # of nitrates and 40 isn't that bad, considering) then I'd do 50% water changes and wait for the plants to kick in and start eating up all those nutrients. Like I said, doing it too fast can cause problems anyways.

Good luck x

But DO NOT rinse anything in pure tap water. Always rinse in a bucket of water taken right from your tank or you will kill all your beneficial bacteria and end up with a whole lot of other problems.

 

Even water changes of 25% per week is not very much.

Don't cut back on the food. I've seen this so much recently. Everyone is paraniod about feeding their fish in case it messes up water quality or because someone has told them that overfeeding is the top cause of death and they end up with skinny fish. Give them food. Give them as much variety as possible in their diet and they will thank you for it.

 

Even water changes of 25% per week is not very much.

Don't cut back on the food. I've seen this so much recently. Everyone is paraniod about feeding their fish in case it messes up water quality or because someone has told them that overfeeding is the top cause of death and they end up with skinny fish. Give them food. Give them as much variety as possible in their diet and they will thank you for it.

Oh, I feed my fish. I just don't overfeed. I also don't think that the algae eaters are eating the wafers I am dropping in.

I had old tank syndrome and nitrates in the HUNDREDS. Too high to show up on any tests, so I'd guess well over 300. It took months for me to get it down and I lost some awesome fish in the process. Doing it too fast stresses the fish who are used to the nigh nitrates. I lost a big gold gourami and a 9in common pleco. Your new fish are dying because they're not adapted to the high nitrates like your old fish are.

I tried 25-30% water changes every 3 days for weeks - nothing.
Nitrate removing pad - nothing.
Pothos - nothing.

I did a few 75% water changes. Really big ones. This helped.
Finally I removed all my decor with holes and washed them in tank water, they had sooooooo much detritus stuck inside that I had no idea was there. My filter as well. This made a good dent in the nitrates and they began coming down. This is also when my plants began kicking in.
When I added a whole bunch of pothos plant at the beginning, I didn't see a change for a month or so with that. Apparently a lot of it will die off and regrow so it can adapt to living in water. This keeps my nitrates at about 20 now.

I think the answer is PLANTS! Get as much as you can and wait. If the fish aren't really bothered (they can stand a pretty high # of nitrates and 40 isn't that bad, considering) then I'd do 50% water changes and wait for the plants to kick in and start eating up all those nutrients. Like I said, doing it too fast can cause problems anyways.

Good luck x

Thank you for your feedback! I don't think I have OTS, but I will look into getting some nice plants. I'll also start doing more water changes.

 

Floating plants and stem plants will eat up some nitrates and do it gradually enough that the fish won't freak out. Just an FYI in case you're not interested in a "planted" tank but could use some of the benefits that plants can provide. Just my $.02 . Good luck!

 

Thank you to everyone for your advice! Here is an update:
-I have begun doing weekly water changes, between 25 and 33%.
-I have switched back to flake food with frozen food supplements, and fed sparingly (though adequately).
-I have ceased to use algae wafers altogether.

The results? My nitrate levels have stayed between 5 and 10. Do you think its safe to add a couple new fish at this point? I have also considered bringing a test tube and the API nitrate test solution to PetSmart and actually testing their water - would this be considered rude?

Thanks again!
-J

 

Thank you to everyone for your advice! Here is an update:
-I have begun doing weekly water changes, between 25 and 33%.
-I have switched back to flake food with frozen food supplements, and fed sparingly (though adequately).
-I have ceased to use algae wafers altogether.

The results? My nitrate levels have stayed between 5 and 10. Do you think its safe to add a couple new fish at this point? I have also considered bringing a test tube and the API nitrate test solution to PetSmart and actually testing their water - would this be considered rude?

Thanks again!
-J

How long have your nitrates been at this level? I'd say it's safe to add a couple fish now. Don't overdo it with lots of new fish though!

 

How long have your nitrates been at this level? I'd say it's safe to add a couple fish now. Don't overdo it with lots of new fish though!

For about 3 weeks. And, thanks for your suggestion, I'll be careful about my numbers!

 

My 125g and 55 gallon consistently are at 40-80ppm, they aren’t deadly unless you’re at 80-100+ for long periods of time, I do 50-60% water changes every 3-4 days on each of my two big tanks. People spread false information regarding nitrate and when it becomes deadly, keeping it below “20” is annoying, 40ppm is fine man and shouldn’t be causing any issues just change your water more often

 

My 125g and 55 gallon consistently are at 40-80ppm, they aren’t deadly unless you’re at 80-100+ for long periods of time, I do 50-60% water changes every 3-4 days on each of my two big tanks. People spread false information regarding nitrate and when it becomes deadly, keeping it below “20” is annoying, 40ppm is fine man and shouldn’t be causing any issues just change your water more often

Thank you for your comment! The issue I was having was that every time I added a new fish to the tank, it was dead in a matter of days. I think one of my gouramis made it a week. The only measurement that was high, according to most sources, was my nitrates.

 

I just wonder why all your fish keep dying? I doubt it's the nitrates...

 

You might want to consider quarantining new fish before adding them to the community. They could have diseases and spread it to your other fish. It's a good idea to keep them separate for several weeks and monitor them to be sure they're healthy and not sick.

 

When I add new fish I temporarily throw a bag of nitrosorb in an hob or over a bubbler for a week to keep the extra ammonia produced by the new fish causing a minI cycle. Once they are adjusted I take it out and water test frequently to be sure it’s stable. Also could be a ph difference from the store and you need to acclimate them more slowly to your tank.

 

Based on your description, you need to vacuum your gravel very well.

 

Thank you for your comment! The issue I was having was that every time I added a new fish to the tank, it was dead in a matter of days. I think one of my gouramis made it a week. The only measurement that was high, according to most sources, was my nitrates.

What is your PH and the PH of the water the new fish came from? Also how are you acclimating them?

 

The results? My nitrate levels have stayed between 5 and 10. Do you think its safe to add a couple new fish at this point? I have also considered bringing a test tube and the API nitrate test solution to PetSmart and actually testing their water - would this be considered rude?

Thanks again!
-J

Instead of testing the water at the store you can do what I do when I bring new fish home. I test the water in the bag once I get the new fish home. The results of those tests tell me how much acclimation I need to do.

I don't actually acclimate in the bag. I transfer fish and the water they came home in to a container large enough to hold at least double the amount of water in the bag.

 

Instead of testing the water at the store you can do what I do when I bring new fish home. I test the water in the bag once I get the new fish home. The results of those tests tell me how much acclimation I need to do.

I don't actually acclimate in the bag. I transfer fish and the water they came home in to a container large enough to hold at least double the amount of water in the bag.

That’s what I do! It also gives me an indication of how well the fish store maintain their tanks. Some fish are already sick when you bring them home from the store. A lot of times this doesn’t show in store.

 

Thank you for your replies!

Mattgirl - how do you acclimate them to the temperature? I typically have just hung the bag into the water for a while, while adding teaspoons of my tank water to the bag. Once the water in the bag is mostly my tank water, I remove the fish from the bag and place them in the tank

I do maintain a 10 gallon hospital tank, for quarantine and sick fish purposes.

If the nitrates are not what is killing my fish, then maybe it's a stocking problem? Maybe too many semi-aggressive fish? My ph is good (typically right at 7). Temperature is at 76.

 

I float the container but I am doing it in a 55 gallon tank so have plenty of room. Might be a bit more difficult in a smaller tank. I just have to make sure the container has been cleaned really well before going in there.

 

I can probably swing that. How do you get the container nice and clean/aquarium safe?

 

Maybe the fish are just unhealthy to begin with... Where are you buying them? Super weird that they all just die with no known explanation

If the nitrates are not what is killing my fish, then maybe it's a stocking problem? Maybe too many semi-aggressive fish? My ph is good (typically right at 7). Temperature is at 76.

Do you have any aggressive fish that could be killing all the new ones?

 

I've got a school of 5 black skirt tetras and two golden algae eaters. I guess black skirts are fin nippers, and I tried to add angelfish and gourami.

I'm buying them at petsmart (I know, I know) because the only local aquarium store only sells saltwater fish and large freshwater fish which would outgrow my tank

 

I can probably swing that. How do you get the container nice and clean/aquarium safe?

I use a food safe container and just rinse it really well under hot tap water. Food safe containers are designed to not absorb anything so rinsing really well before use will clean them well. The last time I got fish I used a large plastic ice cream container.

I am sure floating the bag is the way most folks do it but I find it is easier for me to float a rigid container. For me there is less chance of getting store water in my tank by doing it the way I do it.

 

I've got a school of 5 black skirt tetras and two golden algae eaters. I guess black skirts are fin nippers, and I tried to add angelfish and gourami.

I'm buying them at petsmart (I know, I know) because the only local aquarium store only sells saltwater fish and large freshwater fish which would outgrow my tank

I buy fish from chain stores too. When there's no local fish store around, we aren't left with much of an option unfortunately other than shopping online. We just have to be careful of illnesses and stuff. I never buy fish from a store where they have lots of dead or sick fish in their tanks.

 

Indeed. I always ask about general health and ich. Every single time.

The fish usually died after about a day or two in the tank. I added one angelfish. When I didn't have luck with them, I tried a couple of gouramis. They made it about a week.