Newbie Starting A 20 Gallon Long Tank Dry Start Method

HI there,

I'm fairly new to Louisville, KY and after much deliberation decided to set up an aquarium - my only prior experience being that our family had a small goldfish tank when I was ~7 years old (that's decades ago). After some reading up and spending a tonne of money I decided to set up an iwagumI style 20 gallon long tank for freshwater fish and was hoping to run the idea by you experienced folk. Attached is an of the current condition of the tank.

Tank: 20 gallon long tank with a glass lid
Hardscape: Layer of soil mixed with Caribsea Eco-Complete (approx. 1:1), then capped with more Eco-Complete (on the planted portions). Caribsea sand for the non-planted beach area, epoxy resin + non-toxic blue mica pigment for the faux sea. Ohko dragon stones for the iwagumI portion, bonsaI driftwood.

So I'm trying the dry-start method (sounds controversial but thought I'd try it) - I'm trying to carpet the foreground with dwarf hair grass; the foliage for the bonsaI and also highlights for the rocks were done with Java moss; both from GreenPro. The tank will be lit at least 12 hours a day with a Nicrew ClassicPlus FSPEC LED light, and the tank does get some indirect sunlight as well (fully conscious of possible algae issues that may arise in the future).

The plan is to grow plants above water for the next 8 weeks, flood, run CO2 on full with daily 50% water changes for the first 2 weeks, and gradually wean the CO2 to an acceptable level for fish. This will be done via an external 200GPH canister filter (Aqueon) attached to inline thermostat and inline CO2 atomizer. The inflow will be via violet tube which will point slightly downwards to minimize surface disturbance and have a good flow for my fish. Once the tank is fully cycled, I will add fish. I originally started off with plans to have solar flare swordtails (1 male + 2 females) - they are supposed to be great beginner fish, like high flow, and like hard alkalI water that Louisville has (apparently pH 8.8, GH 103, KH 3.25 last year).

I initially thought about adding Nerite snails as algae eaters, but since am leaning towards adding shrimp instead (ghost vs cherry vs Amano) - to clean up algae and also be feeders for the fish. I thought a lot about what to do when the livebearers give birth to fry, and I know many people are against this but I decided I'll let them have fry in the same tank and let them be culled by the larger fish and shrimps. I am also considering adding a female dwarf or honey gourami for swordtail fry population control - I get the sense that females and honeys will be mellower and get along with the adult swordtails/shrimps a little better, although I expect shrimp casualties. I may have to reach a compromise in the pH for the dwarf gourami and the swordtails, which should be feasible. The tank is probably borderline small for the above stocking, but I think I'll stick with the above for now.

This is my first tank so I'd appreciate your feedback!

Attached is the analysis from

 

That looks fantastic. Well done.

 

So, planted tank with 3 mixed sex sword tails and a hony gourami, ? and shrimp?

my biggest concern is The Ph is high for gourami. Fish can adapt but that seems extreme. I guess you will have to let us know if it works.

 

So, planted tank with 3 mixed sex sword tails and a hony gourami, ? and shrimp?

my biggest concern is The Ph is high for gourami. Fish can adapt but that seems extreme. I guess you will have to let us know if it works.

Yes, that was one of my concerns also. The water here in Louisville has a pretty high pH! The guy at Petco tells me that this is one of the reasons why there are lots of cichlid enthusiasts here in Louisville. The vendor for the fish that I am looking into at the moment raises their honeys and dwarves in water with a pH of 7.8 so I'm hoping that will be acceptable to all the tank members. The tap water here is supposed to have a pH of 8.8, but with the peat in the soil substrate, tannins from the driftwood, the CO2 in solution and maybe a little vinegar, I think I should be able to get the pH down to 7.8.

I must confess that I really started considering gourami as a way to keep swordtail numbers down - I can try hand over fry to LFS but don't know if that will be plausible if numbers really blow up. Considerations for alternatives for the gourami being fish that could tolerate the pH, wouldn't overstock the tank (i.e. wouldn't mind being the sole member of the species too much), and wouldn't dig up the garden. Other candidates in my mind were neon tetras, danios, dwarf cichlids or a German blue ram. From my reading it seemed that most of these preferred softer more acidic water, and the tetras and danios are shoaling fish. The ram or a dwarf cichlid would dig up the garden as well. Angelfish were also a consideration but didn't really meet above criteria in my mind - a slow swimmer in a higher flow tank, likes acidic water, will likely be nipped by swordtails. The ideal candidate would be a solitary alkalI preferring fast swimmer that will take fry but get along with the adult swordtails. I could also just not keep swordtails but I'm pretty set on them at the moment.

As for the shrimp - my concern with them is the pH/water conditions and whether they'd be able to maintain numbers in the tank with the fish, especially the gourami. A work colleague of mine owns a planted 5G shrimp tank, and has made it work for the last three months with Louisville water + water conditioner without pH adjustment, so hopefully the water will be ok. I'm trying to not grow too many plants beyond what I have growing already, but the thing about dragon stone is that it has a lot of holes where shrimp and fry could hide. I was thinking to start with 20 ghost shrimps (or maybe Amano, since they are bigger and harder to pick on, but they also don't reproduce as much...) and see if the whole thing will be sustainable.

 

shrimp will be at risc from almost any fish, its impossible to say how well they can hide in the plants.

A gourami is not really going to help with the fry anymore then the adult swordtails would. The fry are going to hide in the plants, at least a few will servive to be large enough to not be eaten. If you had a larger tank, , you could get zebra loaches, or yoyo loaches, the ph should be good, and with some holo decorations, they might not even did up the plants. I really don't want to recommend them for a tank under 30 gallons, but with all the plants, it might work.

but why not just get all same sex fish? you would not have to deal with breeding agression.

A golden wonder killI fish would stay at the top and hunt fry.

 

shrimp will be at risc from almost any fish, its impossible to say how well they can hide in the plants.

A gourami is not really going to help with the fry anymore then the adult swordtails would. The fry are going to hide in the plants, at least a few will servive to be large enough to not be eaten. If you had a larger tank, , you could get zebra loaches, or yoyo loaches, the ph should be good, and with some holo decorations, they might not even did up the plants. I really don't want to recommend them for a tank under 30 gallons, but with all the plants, it might work.

but why not just get all same sex fish? you would not have to deal with breeding agression.

A golden wonder killI fish would stay at the top and hunt fry.

I hadn't considered the kilifish! Sounds like they would do a great job with fry control. Do you have a lot of experience with them? They also seem to prefer a lower pH but I guess they might be hardier and more nimble than gourami. Do they have to be kept in pairs or groups? Will they bother the adult swordtails?

I thought about making it just a same species same sex tank - looking around though, people tend to recommend females for such stocking - I'd still get tonnes of fry with that configuration, and I really want to keep males for their famed tails. Keeping multiple males in a tank, with or without females, seems to result in mixed results for people out on the world wide web. Hence the decision for a mixed tank.

At the end of the day I'm not too concerned about the tank being fry free - if the numbers are manageable, I aI'm to try to re-home them and keep some in the process. The tank is planted but not heavily - I plan on keeping the hairgrass short, and the Java moss is really only on the tree. A lot of homework to do for me, and I guess I have 2-3 months while the tank becomes ready...

 

There are many species of killies with vary different needs and personalities. I have kept only 2 species, florida flag killis, which are schoolers. And the golden wonder, which is not.
The golden wonder can get to 5 inches, it stays at the top patrollling for straggles. Ph rang is pretty wide.
I have had 2 of them at different times. he did not bother or was bothered by any other fish including angelfish and rainbow fish. I did not have any small fish that he might pick on, but I have seen a you tube video of them eating guppies. Theyreally seemed hardy. But like I said I only had 2.
florida flag fish are really neat, I was scared by reveiws of them being quite aggressive if the get hungry. but I see no evidence off this aggression so far. They are the smallest fish in my tank and have no problems living with the more active and larger tank mates though.

 

but I have seen a you tube video of them eating guppies.

That's a little concerning... aren't guppies and swordtails related?

 

The Golden wonder killI fish was eating a guppy, not a sword tail eating a guppy. the golden wonder has a nickname "top guppy" but that doesn't make it a guppy any more then a catfish is a cat.

 

The Golden wonder killI fish was eating a guppy, not a sword tail eating a guppy. the golden wonder has a nickname "top guppy" but that doesn't make it a guppy any more then a catfish is a cat.

What I meant was if golden wonders are eating guppies, what's to stop them from eating swordtails, which are closely related? Sounds like they'll be efficient at keeping fry numbers down but I don't want them to attack the adult swordtails...

 

oh, hmm
back to square one I guess, or florida flags,

 

Finally, I decided to flood the tank after 5 weeks of dry start. Sunsun canister filter (265GPH), inline CO2 via atomizer, inline thermostat/heater. Brackish salt added to specific gravity of 1.005. Plants seem ok, but ammonia levels are through the roof, probably leached from the soil substrate. Waiting to complete cycle before adding fauna.

 

I have a pair of honey gourami(I believe they are both male) and my water is very hard and runs between 7.5 and 8.0 always. They are totally happy and healthy. I don't know about 8.8, but as you mentioned you could try and get it down to 7.8, I think that should be fine. Only thing I would watch for there is that because you will need to treat it to get the water to that ph is that over time it doesn't quickly spike without you noticing, I think constant ph change could be an issue


Edit: what a beautiful tank by the way!!

 

Progress update:
Nitrites came down to 0 this morning, and my fish arrived today as well. Tank is full of algae at the end of cycling, and my fish are already digging into it (as well are the Amano shrimp). They are all curious yet apprehensive of me. Apparently the water will clear and the algae growth will be controlled in time.

 

Wow, you did a fantastic job scaping that tank!!! Incredible! I'm jealous!!

You could use a pH reducing fluid from a pet store, or maybe some almond leaves if you want to do it more naturally. I think almond leaves would look good in your setup...

 

I don't know anything about the pH really, but that is such a gorgeous tank. I'm honestly a little jealous...

 

What fish did you get? The amanos should help with cleanup of algae pretty quickly. I've seen a two and a half inch golden wonder twy to eat an inch and a half swordtail.
Swordtails can get massive, picture for example (the largest is over five and a half inches and most of them are bigger than my 5 inch bn male).

 

Here's my tank a week after introducing the fishies - koi swordtails and shrimps. The tank is starting to clear up - I confess I used the built in UV sterilizer for 2-3 days to help deal with the green water. For some reason the Amano didn't do too well in this tank, but all other inhabitants seem to be very happy!

What fish did you get? The amanos should help with cleanup of algae pretty quickly. I've seen a two and a half inch golden wonder twy to eat an inch and a half swordtail.
Swordtails can get massive, picture for example (the largest is over five and a half inches and most of them are bigger than my 5 inch bn male).
View attachment 580519

Wow, those are really nice swordtails! Would love to see mine grow up like that. I ended up just getting swordtails, Amano and ghost shrimp

Wow, you did a fantastic job scaping that tank!!! Incredible! I'm jealous!!

You could use a pH reducing fluid from a pet store, or maybe some almond leaves if you want to do it more naturally. I think almond leaves would look good in your setup...

Thank you.
The pH in the tank (not the tap water) ended up being about 8.2, with the CO2 running. Will keep your advice in mind though, since I went ahead and am starting a 5 gallon betta tank

 

Good food and clean water, i've got an 8-9 month old female in my pond that is going on three inches now (along with her 2 month, 1 month, and recent fry which are doing good as well). The amanos do prefer a longer setup tank, if they didnt do well now try in a couple months to see if it has improved.