newbie question

  1. jaysix79 Member Member

    can you use a pool filter sand for salt water tank.... i know you can do use this for fresh water but what about salt water?

    is it safe?? anything i need to add to make it work..?



    (edited/addded)

    My procedure should be....... If this is bad or good let me know your input


    1. Add my sand and water in the tank and let it cycle for a 2 to 3 days. Check the water chemistry. (im cycling it for few days to get a stable chemistry b4 i add the live rocks to prevent killing my live rocks)



    2. Add my live rock's (27 lbs or more) in the tank and let it cycle for another week or so. Till I see an algae growth (brown algae)... And check the water for chemistry for few days and look for fluctuations..

    (if I buy the rocks that they have in the store where they keep it wet and running water in the bucket/tub.. are they live rock? are they ready to go to a cycle tank or should I clean them first (rinse))????

    (Should I add fish food in the tank to encourage bacteria growth?)??



    3. Add snail... 2-3 days later depending how the water stable then add shrimp.. 2-3 days later depending how the water stable and then add cra

    4. Add a test fish in the tank and observe it for a week or so... Till I can add more



    Equipment

    1. Tank (ill be using a 27 gallon tank
    2. play sand and argonite 1:1 ratio
    3. Filter (I’m using a hang on filter) and planning to change to sump system
    4. Temp and heater
    5. Protein skimmer
    6. Water testing kit
    7. Fish food
    8. Live rock 27 lbs or more


    if anything I'm missing on my list of procedure and equipments please let me know

    any help and recommendation would be appreciate it
     
  2. Regal Well Known Member Member

    I don't see what it would hurt but then I know nothing about salt water. Some saltys should be along to help soon.
     

  3. charzar-g Well Known Member Member

    I am sort of a newbie to saltwater myself. But if the sand is silicon based then it shouldn't be used,, It should only be naturally made :)
    (eg. Can't use kids playsand)
     

  4. locoyo386 Well Known Member Member

    When using different types of sands you should be carefull. I know of two concerns when dealing with different types of sands. ONe concern is that the sand can be silicate base, which can lead to algea blooms. The second concern is in the particles of the sand themselfs, if they are too small they can become suspended in the water column and affect the fish's gills. I have tried playsand before and it seemed to have worked just fine. I hoever only tried with damsels wich are more hardy. I did noticed the glitter type of particle floating alot in the water column. Not sure if this affected the fish in anyway, they are still alive and doing well. Another possible concern is that the sand can contain chemichals that can be released into the water column and affecting the fish and possibly killing them.
     

  5. jaysix79 Member Member

    I think pool filter sand is a little bigger than play sand so I’m going to use the pool filter sand

    From my understanding doing all my searching around this forum...

    My procedure should be.......

    1. Add my sand and water in the tank and let it cycle for a week or so. Check the water chemistry. (Should I add fish food in the tank to encourage bacteria growth?)

    2. Add my rock's (27 lbs or more) in the tank and let it cycle for another week or so. And check the water for chemistry (if I buy the rocks that they have in the store where they keep it wet and running water in the bucket/tub.. are they live rock? are they ready to go to a cycle tank or should I clean them first (rinse))

    3. Add a test fish in the tank and observe it for a week or so.. Till I can add more



    Equipment

    1. Tank (ill be using a 27 gallon tank
    2. Pool filter sand
    3. Filter (I’m using a hang on filter) and planning to change to sump system
    4. Temp and heater
    5. Protein Skimmer
    6. Water testing kit
    7. Fish food
    8. live rock 27 lbs or more


    If anything I'm missing on my list of procedure and equipments please let me know

    Any help and recommendation would be appreciate it
     
  6. Sonfish Member Member

    I think from doing some reading substrates such as argonite and some of the others help with ph and are good size for bacteria growth, I would put the LR in with the substrate as the LR is where the majority of good bacteria will grow and it will speed up the cycle, when ya put the LR in make sure you kinda wiggle it down into the substrate because from what I have read alot of sea critters like to dig or burrow in and around the LR and may cause your LR to fall and possibly bust the glass or crush one of your critters....
    as for aHOB filter I have read that most dont use the filter elements in them, and only use them for circulation, I havent exactly figured out why you wouldnt use filters media, on one hand Ive read it filters out the good bacteria but I would think that the media would be a good place for bacteria to grow....For sure a sump is the way to go tho
    I think if you cycle the tank with just the water and substrate and get your parameters right when you add the LR it may cause your tank to go into another cycle and prolong your waiting period to add live stock...
    This is what I get from reading ALOT of various posts around this internet thing lol
    and are just my understanding as to how these things work...
    Planning on doing a marine tank myself one day...
     
  7. jaysix79 Member Member

    thanks son fish for your recommendation... I’ve also find out that when you add your sand and live rock and cycle the tank wait till you see an algae grow (I’m not sure how much but this is an indication that your ammonia and nitrate is in low level).. Then you add some cleaner like snails and shrimps.... till you can add fish later on......

    Once again thanks for the input and I’m editing my first post...
     
  8. locoyo386 Well Known Member Member

    I was reading more into the pool filter sand and it says it contians cystalline silica. Also make sure you read the Warning! some say "Lung Injury and Cancer Hazard" which might not be adequate for fish to breath in.
     
  9. jaysix79 Member Member

    so play sand is better??... how come freshwater tank people are liking the pool filter sand more than play sand
     
  10. iloveengl Well Known Member Member

    I don't know anything about salty, but I know the biggest recommendation of pool sand over play sand seems to be that it's not so dirty and doesn't take FOREVER to rinse clean like play sand. But I use and prefer the natural look of play sand. I haven't researched pool sand, but it sounds kinda scary from what people are saying in this thread. :-\
     
  11. kloseo Well Known Member Member

    live sand is better because it will help with your cycling and build up of the helpful bacteria you need to keep your fish healthy and low nitrates/trites and ammonia
     
  12. Sonfish Member Member

    I think when you start getting a brown algae its a sign that your on the right track, its a diatom bloom and will slowly get gone, your right about the clean up crew, and there quite a few differnt ways to go, as far as what to use but what Im getting is that its generally some type of snails, shrimp , and something like either an Emerald crab or 2 or a porcelain crab, the Emeralds are suposed to be mainly algae eaters and the porcelain crabs are filter feeders, as far as the shrimp Ive read where some say that peppermint shrimp are the ones to get as they will eat aptasia which I guess can be a pretty common nuisance in a tank, Ive read where some say they wont eat them and some that said they wont, I do know that ya add maybe your snails and wait till your bio. organisms stableize then add a few shrimp, then again wait and let your system adfust then the crabs, Kinda the same with freshwater I reckon if ya add too much livestock at once it will overload your bio system you establiched when you cycled the tank and will have some either dead or dieing animals and start having to go thru another process all over again...
    I havent started mine yet and go to some places like on the web and kinda formulate your own ideas of what you are shooting for as far as an end result..for example if you want fish only with LR maybe go for species that require the same temps, ph, salinity, and so on...If you want to try ang grow out some corals its a whole different set of parameters I think as far as lighting and demands on the bio system...

    again this is just things I have been reading up on and trying to figure out, I think my first will be a fish only with LR and see how I do at that before I even attempt a reef tank set up...Dont go by algae blooms or the appearance of your water, I know the LFS here will do water testing for free and the guy also told me when I was ready he would give me a handful of live sand from a couple of his already established tanks to help seed my tank ya may want to ask wherever your getting your stuff from about that..
    I have seen where you can get livesand already packaged up but I just dont know about that stuff as I feel ya dont know how long thats been sitting on a shelf or in a warehouse with no circulation and nothing adding ammoniaand what temps its been stored at for the benificial bacteria to survive on so my guess is that ya might just get a sack of dead sand lol
    I hope this helps ya and from one beginner to another I wish ya lottsa luck and good fortune....
    Also please understand this is just what I have been getting from reading and reding up on, someone way more experienced might have some better ideas that are tried and true
     
  13. jaysix79 Member Member

    thats the reason why i wanted to use the pool sand over play sand thanks for the input

    i agree with you but live sand is just way to much.. other sand will eventually come alive over time

    thanks for more input
     
  14. locoyo386 Well Known Member Member

    I never heard of any one using pool filter sand in the salt water forums. I have heard that people use playsand, and personally I have used it before. Not sure about what the pool filter sand is composed of but most likely would have silicates. From the warnings that are given on the pool filter sand makes me weary about using it. The play sand is for the use of kids, and you know kids eat that like crazy. Thus makes me more biast to it. Also the play sand can be checked for silicates not make sure that it's not going to have any or as much. That will keep the algea from blooming too much in the tank.
     
  15. jaysix79 Member Member

    i guess ill go with play sand
     
  16. harpua2002 Fishlore VIP Member

    I'd strongly suggest going with dry aragonite sand. You'll have to rinse it a lot, but it's worth it. Substrate is not something to cheap out on. Live sand is unnecessary; the plain aragonite will become live eventually. As others have said, silicates in other sand will lead to massive algae problems from what I understand.
     
  17. locoyo386 Well Known Member Member

    Not all play sand has "massive silicates", you can test the sand with vinegar to see if it's worth using. Also note that 99% of sand has some amount of silicate in it, even if it's the reef sand they sell for saltwater aquariums. That's why when you set a tank, after a couple months or so you will get algea. That's because the silicate is feeding the algea, but the algea will only grow untill all the silicate is consumed.

    Personally I have used play sand, here is the link to the vidoe I took of the tank that has play sand;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVEApb1DbPk

    The play sand has to be cleaned really good though. Once in the aquarium (before starting the cycle) you need to stir it up really good and syphon the water out than repeat that a few times. Just allow a few minutes for the sand to settle a little before syphoning the water out.

    Here is the link to the sand I used;

    http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/SandPremiumPlay.asp
     
  18. jaysix79 Member Member

    i agree with you any sand will live eventually thats why i don't see the point of buying live sand.. like many said who really knows how old those sands are at the store... who knows if they are really still alive


    the tank looks good... I'm wondering why pool filter sand cant be good to salt water if all fresh water people have good luck with pool filter sand...



    by the way thanks for the input guys
     
  19. harpua2002 Fishlore VIP Member

    That's not a quote from me, actually. I said massive algae problems, and I said this because every SW tank I've set up has had massive algae problems in the beginning stages, which later goes away. I've seen no mention of RO/DI, so I'm assuming the use of tap water which will make it even worse. My point is, why add fuel to the fire and make the beginning stages more difficult? I keep only reef tanks, so maybe it's different for a FOWLR (reduced lighting and such).
     
  20. ATP Well Known Member Member

    Get agronite sand
    or
    you could get SOUTHDOWN play sand.
    Doesn't have to be live because 1-They'll be live later on when you seed it. 2-most of the biological filtration will come from the live rocks when you have them.(unless you have a deep sand bed)
    Some people doesn't even bother with sand as you will need to replace them every few years (even DSB) and it'll be a little harder to take care of.