Newb losing my mind over Nitrites and Nitrates

First post. I guess most of us only find places when we need help right? We're new to this as a family, and have had some set backs.

My nine year old decided she wanted to buy a fish tank with her money. She wanted to take care of it, but her mom and I would kind of keep an eye on things. We did well for about 6 weeks. She had 4 (mollies/platy) in a 10 gallon tank. We did weekly water changes, changed the filter, added the bio cleaner and tap safe products they recommended. We did not test. The tank got cloudy and three of the fish died. We appeared to have had an algae bloom.

So we did a quick 50% water change to save the one remaining platy. It might have been better if it had died so we could reset the tank, but she loves this crazy little fish. So we went and got replacement fish a couple days later after it seemed safe. She carefully selected her fish, and 4 hours later they were dead. PetSmart thought we'd floated them too long. I guess we'd misunderstood the 30 minute rule.

At this point in our journey, I decided to get involved.

I picked up some plants because I know plants consume nitrates. So that seemed like at least a partial solution. I wedged in a nitrite filter into out cheap kit filter. Added more biological cleaner. No real changes. PetSmart asks the same questions every time. How much are you feeding? 1 flake 2x a day. When was the last filter change. 2 weeks ago at this point. Their advice has been water change after water change. We do it, and see no real changes in nitrites or nitrates. Ammonia levels are good according to them, but my test strips don't check it.

Today's numbers: NO3:160, NO2 10+, PH7(ish), KH:120. GH:120

We have 4 small plants and a moss ball in the tank. I've even added some neutralizer (API Aqua Essential) they recommended. We've done many water changes of 25-30%. I added some lava rock (after rinsing, boiling, and sitting in change water with biologic for 24 hours) as well to give the bacteria places to colonize. We make sure there are no dead leaves or other debris as well. We started out cleaning some of the substrate with each water change (pulling it out and washing it) but it seems that might not be a good idea because it wipes out bacteria.

The last idea I have is to add a small aquaponic garden to it. My daughter wants a 55gallon tank for Christmas, and I plan to do just that for that tank. Other than that, all I can think of is to get a new filter rather than this TopFin (kit) filter so I can have more media options. I'll probably wait for the new tank for that though.

The folks at PetSmart are at a loss. What have I missed?

 

Welcome here you shouldn’t be changing the filter but instead taking some tank water in a bucket and swish the filter media around in it then put your filter back together that is where most all your beneficial bacteria lives and by changing the cartridges your throwing the cycle away. If the tank was a cloudy white it was probably a bacterial bloom. Check some YouTube videos for diy filter media n eventually you won’t need to buy the cartridges. Also a good idea to invest in an API master test kit. By your readings it looks like your using strips? They don’t usually test for ammonia and that could be the cause of your fish passing… that’s the basics I’m sure others will chime in with some further help. Good luck!!

 

I'm pretty new to this myself, but I would try a few things. First, hold off on adding any fish for awhile. Second, start testing your ammonia at home. I use the API freshwater master test kit. Right now it's on sale on the website but not in the store (at Petco, and probably at Petsmart) but you can buy online and pick up in store... or just show them the web page at checkout. You should always probably check that.

There are some excellent people on here to talk about where you might be in the cycle... I bet they will chime in.

I would also test your tap water to see if what you're putting in might be a problem. My tap water's ammonia is 3ppm. I treat it and let it set for awhile. Especially in a newer tank you'll want the new water to be in good shape.

I'm no expert for sure. Currently battling a pH and GH issue.

 

Hi Reality45
Welcome to fishlore

You have come to the right place to learn .
We are all learning because I believe you never stop
learning?

The filter is not replaced for years. After a couple of years of rinsing it out it will be falling apart. Only then do you toss it. Sorry Petsmart wants your money that is their intention. Filters can be made from sheets of sponge instead of cartridges as it lasts many months longer before falling apart.

I can only imagine what the 30 minute rule is?
The truth is fish stay in plastic bags for hours .
Adding tank water a little at a time is correct. At least one hour of small amounts of tank water every 7-10 minutes.
Unless a fish has been in the post traveling for days by mail. That’s another story.

As others have said you should buy your own liquid test kit. You need to establish what your tap water is like before anyone can say what is happening with the tank water.

Don’t hesitate to ask questions.

 

I use a small ~1 gallon size holding bin when I bring new fish home. I was never able to figure out how to open that bag and add water to it without everything just falling apart.

So...First I float the bag in the aquarium. Then I pour the bag water and fish into the clean and empty small holding bin. Then I add a little tank water to the bin. No more than 10% or so of what is already in there. Then I wait awhile and do it again. This lets them not only acclimate to the temperature but also everything else about the water. If the pH is really different between what they traveled home in and my tank, I go all that much slower. Nitrates are also a watch out because even though they can live at higher levels of nitrates than you want to see, that's because it builds up over time an they get used to it. If you have high nitrates at home and low nitrates in the bag, they can get nitrate shock just like pH shock. Ammonia and Nitrites are non-starters of course and will give you a problem right away.

This acclimation is getting a bit ahead of things, though, since we want to get your tank figured out before adding more to it! Hopefully a good future reference. It works for me anyway.

Hope things are getting better, keep us posted!

 

"I can only imagine what the 30 minute rule is?
The truth is fish stay in plastic bags for hours ."

Thank you, they said we'd probably suffocated the fish by leaving them in the bag for more than 30 minutes. We thought that meant to float them in the tank for 30 minutes. I did some research and concluded it was more likely nitrite/nitrate poisoning.

Don't change the filter. That one is going to be hard to wrap my mind around. I get the science, but my brain is screaming at me.

 

I did some research and concluded it was more likely nitrite/nitrate poisoning.

I went back and looked at your original post and if your nitrites were 10ppm that could definitely be a problem. But I'm not sure how your nitrates are at 160ppm with Nitrites at 10ppm. That level of nitrates indicates the nitrites are being gobbled up by the good bacteria. All the more reason to test the tap water, and keep testing the tank with the master testing kit.

That nitrite level could be to blame for the original and new fish. The nitrates may have gotten the new fish when added due to nitrate shock.

 

Just want to add a bit to the discussion: if nitrite is really at 10ppm, then it would not be surprising for nitrate to read super high. The nitrate test kit works by converting a portion of nitrate to nitrite, then reading that as a proxy after all. So if there is nitrite, nitrate can just read falsely high.

 

Just want to add a bit to the discussion: if nitrite is really at 10ppm, then it would not be surprising for nitrate to read super high. The nitrate test kit works by converting a portion of nitrate to nitrite, then reading that as a proxy after all. So if there is nitrite, nitrate can just read falsely high.

Wow I did not know that. I think this indicates ammonia is probably being taken care of, but nitrites are not. Fish did well for awhile as the ammonia was kept at bay, but the nitrites built up.

Reality45: Get the test kit (don't forget to check online price...just got one at Petco yesterday for I think $26). Keep testing and when you see nitrites head down, I think things will be on a good path. Someone else may weigh in on whether/how much water changing to do between now and then?

 

Wow I did not know that.

Yeah, it was something I did not know until like earlier this year, and I have been in the hobby for like ten years. When I first saw someone post it up on Reddit, I was super surprised and doubtful, but decided to ask them about it and also did my own digging, and turns out it checks out.

Even found a video explaining how it works:

Pretty interesting.

 

Having been to many all day auctions and seen fish in bags for hours trust me 30 minutes is not going to suffocate any fish. I am not saying anything more than 6 hours without a water change is ideal but the reality is it happens. Pure oxygen is available to add to bags at auction in Australia and a little fresh water means it can be almost 24 hours by the time fish are back in a tank. Not ideal but it’s the reality. Just how to fish travel in the post anyway ? Petsmart is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

American tap water can be rather questionable at times. Until we know what is coming out of the tap it’s to soon to write about what bacteria are active in the tank, I suggest?

 

I know several have suggested that I test the tap water, and I have, at least for what my test strips will do. No nitrates or nitrites (or unmeasurable with my test). So I'll get a proper test kit as recommended. I have water off-gassing (added the dechlorinator and biological) and waiting for another water change as well (tomorrow) so I'll probably test it before I add it.

Thank you all for your input!

 

Thank you, they said we'd probably suffocated the fish by leaving them in the bag for more than 30 minutes. We thought that meant to float them in the tank for 30 minutes. I did some research and concluded it was more likely nitrite/nitrate poisoning.

Don't change the filter. That one is going to be hard to wrap my mind around. I get the science, but my brain is screaming at me.

Fish get shipped around the world in plastic bags. 30 minutes in a bag will not suffocate your fish. No offense to petsmart/petco employees but they never seem to know what they are talking about lol.

 

Just wondering if things have stabilized in your tank. Hope so!!

 

Just wondering if things have stabilized in your tank. Hope so!!

Sorry about that, and I apologize for necro-ing this thread. I'd been meaning to report back, but you know life gets in the way.

We kept up with water changes, and decided to get another Platy to keep the one company. We added lava rock. We continued water changes, and then got COVID. The fish kind of took a back seat since I was the only one of us able to function. I did do a couple water changes over that two weeks or so, and rinsed the filter rather than replacing it. By the time we were recovered, and were able to get out and about the tank cycled. We've since added two more mollies and the tank has kept up without issue.

We also went out and got my daughter her Christmas present, a 55 gallon tank. We should get water in it this week and get it started using the small tank water changes and the lava rock. So all in all, it's going pretty well. The fish seem healthy, and the water is testing well. I appreciate all the help we got from this community. Maybe someday I'll know enough to help too.

 

Glad you were able to get it sorted! A small tank to start with sounds easy enough but it's pretty unforgiving when things go wrong.

You'll enjoy the larger tank - just make sure you've got a filter than can cycle the water at least 4-5 times per hour. Or more, depending on the bioload.

Safe keeping

 

Have you read up and understand the Nitrogen cycle? This site has a good description of how it works. It's critical to keeping your fish alive. The gist is bacteria have to develop mostly in your filter that consumes the byproduct of fish waste [ammonia] and breaks it down to nitrite. More bacteria develops and breaks the nitrite down to nitrates that aren't as harmful to the fish. Regular water changes lower remove the nitrates and add buffers and minerals back to the water. Ammo, nitrite, and ph are critical during the cycle and nitrates and ph should be monitored after until your water change schedule is set. Most tanks get 'cloudy' during this process as a result of algae blooms but this wont affect the fish and usually goes away in a few weeks. Be careful cleaning the filters as you chance of killing off the beneficial bacteria. Good luck when you get the hang of it its not that much work.