New to koi pond

midnamoondog
Member
HI there. My husband and I bought a house last October and it came with a pond. He and I cleaned it out and started fresh last month. It has a black heavy liner and is surrounded by a wood frame with rocks. It is about 700 gallons by our measurements. We bought a pond filter (TetraPond FK5 Filtration Fountain Kits ) and pump and it helped keep it clear for about a week. Once the sun really hit it algae has been in full bloom. We planted a water lily, and a floating basket with plants and put four 3" koi in. We are thinking we need a larger canister type filter with a uv sterilizer and I came back to the best place I know to ask what your experience and recommendation would be.

I read this interesting article on green water and koi.



The jist I got from it is that the algae in the pond is actually beneficial to the koi. Is this true? Though I do like seeing my fish, their health is most important to me.

Thoughts?
 
Dadio
Member
Algae is beneficial to koi as they will graze on it. Your filter is definitely not enough for 700g as it's only good for ponds up to 250 gallons.

UV offers 2 types, one being a clarifier, the other being a sterilizer. I use a UVC/S as I have a very large pond. I also employ both submersible and out of pond pumps.

So, questions are what is the goal for your pond? How many fish do you plan to stock? What types of plants? Do you plan to winter your koi outside?

From here I can help you better.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
I would like to get a filter that would accommodate the size pond. I would like the water to be clearer but also healthiest for the fish.

I have four koi which is all I will stock unless it would be okay to get some small top feeder fish and possibly a frog.

I have a water lily and buttonbush planted and a floating basket with pond plants.

I do plan on wintering over everything in the pond. I do plan to get a little heater for when there is ice.

Thank you for your input
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
I would like to get a filter that would accommodate the size pond. I would like the water to be clearer but also healthiest for the fish.

I have four koi which is all I will stock unless it would be okay to get some small top feeder fish and possibly a frog.

I have a water lily and buttonbush planted and a floating basket with pond plants.

I do plan on wintering over everything in the pond. I do plan to get a little heater for when there is ice.

Thank you for your input
Ok, so first thing, 750g for koi is small but doable with some serious filtration. Frogs are no problem but wouldn't add anything else.

Secondly, you need to be able to rotate the volume of the pond a minimum of 1 per hour, but ideally 2 to 4 times the volume is better as koi are one of the biggest dumpsters there is. Koi will grow an average of 1 cm per month so having enough space for them is crucial. On average the first koi should have around 1000g and 100 g for each koi there after. If can be done smaller if the filtration is higher.

Plants to be used should also be beneficial to your filtration or they will simply add more demand on the filtration. Iris can be used in a bog setup or caged setup but take head if the koi munch on them they won't survive.

Wintering requires a minimum 2 ft depth and a deicer with aeration to provide movement and air.

So, if you are going to add a UV you have two options, the first being both a clarifier and sterilizer

I use this model and it's good up to 15000 gallons and is both a sterilizer/clarifier.

For pond pump/filter for your current setup



The UV in this unit is a clarifier only and works well. I use this on my 500g interior pond with a 4600gph pump.

The other options could be the addition of a waterfall bio-filter along with UV


IMO, I would add the waterfall, uv and the last item mentioned. This will give you added filtration and water movement less not forget, the sight and sound of a waterfall. I would also look at the size of the pond as if it was me I'd be making it larger to at least 1500g.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Awesome, thank you for all the information.

I think for this year I will get the stronger filter/pump and UV sterilizer. Next Spring we can expand the pond and add the waterfall. It's been in the 90's already here! Ugh!

The pond is at least 2 ft deep so I was going to buy this...


Will I need this aerator as well?


Also I do have the plants, but I may order another pond lily because it is quite slow growing so far. I have a floating basket with a minI iris, marsh marigold and a few others. I also have a Buttonbush that is on the pond shelf.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
Awesome, thank you for all the information.

I think for this year I will get the stronger filter/pump and UV sterilizer. Next Spring we can expand the pond and add the waterfall. It's been in the 90's already here! Ugh!

The pond is at least 2 ft deep so I was going to buy this...


Will I need this aerator as well?


Also I do have the plants, but I may order another pond lily because it is quite slow growing so far. I have a floating basket with a minI iris, marsh marigold and a few others. I also have a Buttonbush that is on the pond shelf.
1500 W maybe a little overkill, but will work fine. I use 2 of these.



All ponds should have an aerator imo. Waterfalls help as well to aerate the water. I place a 6 inch round airstone just under the falls as this increases the air-to-water contact providing better diffusion of air injection.

What I suggest is a pump model with a battery backup in case of power failure, especially during winter as it could freeze over quite fast and the fish would suffocate. I use an airpod unit but take in mind it is not waterproof so you need to provide protection from water. I simply took an old plant container and turned it upside down and punctured a small hole on the side to allow air in. I also put the pump on a brick to keep it away from ground water contact during rain. This aeration will also help keep an opening during winter for release of bad gases.

From your pictures it seems it get a great deal of direct sun which can be an issue if no shaded areas are present as the temps could rise to a crucial point where the koi could become sick. So aeration is helpful to keeping temps a little cooler. I suggest a digital thermometer as well so as to monitor the water temps.

Make sure all electrical is on a GFCI socket in case of electrical shorts.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Thank you again, all great tips. I was hoping the lily would grow quickly to provide some shade but it's been a few weeks and there's only one pad at the top. I will look into the thermometer and electrical.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
Thank you again, all great tips. I was hoping the lily would grow quickly to provide some shade but it's been a few weeks and there's only one pad at the top. I will look into the thermometer and electrical.
You may need to add fertilizer to the lily if in a container. The lily will do much better planted without the container but with koi you'll need to place some larger rocks around it to keep them from eating the roots if they spread out of the plant bed. Here's a great article of pond plants,
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Thank you
 
Dadio
Member
Pleasure was all mine
 
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midnamoondog
Member
I'm thinking we may need to build something for some shade. Maybe even something movable for when it gets hit hard. The pond was here when we moved here so we were trying to make it work. I'll get a thermometer and see how hot it is. For now I have a large black plastic pot on it's side at the bottom for the fish to hide in.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
I'm thinking we may need to build something for some shade. Maybe even something movable for when it gets hit hard. The pond was here when we moved here so we were trying to make it work. I'll get a thermometer and see how hot it is. For now I have a large black plastic pot on it's side at the bottom for the fish to hide in.
Here's a photo from last year showing the custom trellis that I built to give part shade and ward off predators. This was built free-flow, meaning no design other than making it work for the irregular shape it needed.

Dadios Waterpond 2014.jpg

You could do something like this with a trellis but in the case that temperatures rise too high you can add a blue tint to the pond that will help keep it cooler and also starve off over growth of algae.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Good to know. I think I could get my husband to build something. The pond is right up against the fence, so maybe he could build an overhanging lattice similar to what you built.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
Good to know. I think I could get my husband to build something. The pond is right up against the fence, so maybe he could build an overhanging lattice similar to what you built.
Tell him if he needs any advice it'll be a pleasure
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Dadio -

I am going to buy the filter and UV sterilizer for now. I am wondering, does this kit come with everything needed (hoses, filter material, etc.)? If I purchase the two above do you know if I need to buy anything else? Thank you very much
 
Dadio
Member
I believe it comes with everything except hose. It should take 1 1.5in hose or pvc pipe. I use pvc piping mainly because it's more durable then most flexible hose. There is a flexible hose available in white/black but much more expensive that pvc pipe. So, once you got the units and decide where everything will be situated then proceed to get the pvc lengths and interconnects (elbows or other) required to make all connect.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Good idea Thank you.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
Good idea Thank you.
I also suggest adding a t-fitting with a valve to be used for water exchange. This can be stepped down to a 3/4 fitting where you can connect a garden hose and when doing a water exchange use the dirty water for your garden. I have a t connect just before my bio-falls and also a drain hole which I just open to flush out the gunk to my garden. When my strawberries come it is a fiesta of bursting flavors unlike anything store bought along with everything else in my garden. In fact the only water that the garden gets is rain, pond water or 2-stage filtered.
 
Bluestreakfl
Member
I'm just popping in to sey hey, and that I'm curious to see how everything plays out, as were planning a pond build sometime in the next 6 months or so. Time to start soaking the knowledge up like a sponge
 
Dadio
Member
Bluestreakfl said:
I'm just popping in to sey hey, and that I'm curious to see how everything plays out, as were planning a pond build sometime in the next 6 months or so. Time to start soaking the knowledge up like a sponge
Just ask
 
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midnamoondog
Member
Okay Dadio. I got the new filter and pump which work great except the filter is leaking water all over! Any ideas what to do about the o-ring?
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
Okay Dadio. I got the new filter and pump which work great except the filter is leaking water all over! Any ideas what to do about the o-ring?
Can you take a picture to show me where? Your o-ring may not be seated correctly so check to see that it is aligned and properly seated.
 
Dadio
Member
Check to see that it is fully in position for either flow or backwash. If it is not properly set in position it'll leak. From the photo, that looks to be the backwash position and will outflow the water. If I remember correctly it should be to the other side as far as it can go. As stated if not properly in position it'll spew or leak.
 
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midnamoondog
Member
So the left outlet is dirty out, middle dirty in, right clean out. I have it turned left because that's where the holes are positioned and everything is coming out great. Only problem is the leaking around the edge. We opened it up again and revealed the o ring but it still leaks.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
So the left outlet is dirty out, middle dirty in, right clean out. I have it turned left because that's where the holes are positioned and everything is coming out great. Only problem is the leaking around the edge. We opened it up again and revealed the o ring but it still leaks.
Does the O-ring show any damage such as compression marks?
 
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midnamoondog
Member
No but it is very thin and doesn't stay in place well. Maybe I can find something a tad larger in diameter.
 
Dadio
Member
I can see from the leak that it is around the seal/seat. Couple of things I can think of;

1) Not seated in the right groove
2) Misaligned - meaning when you close it it's pinching and therefore not sealing
3) Defective O-ring (dried out thus it shrunk) or is damaged
4) Defective unit (rare, but possible)

Is this a jebao mark?

Looks similar to mine (I'll take a closer look once home), but my clean water out is when it is to the left and when I flush the unit I engage it to the right where it outputs on the right fitting.
 
Dadio
Member
midnamoondog said:
No but it is very thin and doesn't stay in place well. Maybe I can find something a tad larger in diameter.
It sounds like the ring has shrunk or is the wrong ring supplied. Hmmm...

The only thing I can think of doing as a fix would be to apply a light bead of silicone slighly larger then the ring and let is cure 24 hours. This is a temporary fix but would work. The issue is it will void the warranty. Have you tried contacting the retailer to see what they suggest?

Sorry you having issues, so much for plug'n'play.
 
Flowergarden129
Member
Hey Dadio, In terms of using pond water in the garden, do you know if it is safe to use pond water from a turtle tank? I've always wondered about this, given that some turtles carry salmonella. Obviously I don't want to contaminate veggies that will then make us sick. I've also wondered about this in terms of setting up a bog filtration system with edible plants (lettuces, etc) in a turtle pond. I've researched the internet and aquaponics sites but have never found this addressed.
 
Dadio
Member
Flowergarden129 said:
Hey Dadio, In terms of using pond water in the garden, do you know if it is safe to use pond water from a turtle tank? I've always wondered about this, given that some turtles carry salmonella. Obviously I don't want to contaminate veggies that will then make us sick. I've also wondered about this in terms of setting up a bog filtration system with edible plants (lettuces, etc) in a turtle pond. I've researched the internet and aquaponics sites but have never found this addressed.
Hmm, now that is a good question. I use my pond water and tank water to feed my garden which in turn has given me more food then I know what to do with at times other then share with my neighbors. We are now eating salad daily and no one has gotten sick, nor have they in the over 10 years I've built ponds.

As for turtles, well, one of the garden centers I visit has a duo koi/turtle pond and feeds the water back to a hydro system similar to hydroponics and it has a small cherry bush which I've snapped off a few berries and I'm still walking today. So, with that being said I believe it's possible but as stated I'm no expert when it comes to turtles. As long as the stock you keep is healthy then I IMO wouldn't hesitate to use the water in gardens.
 

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