New to Aquariums- First Setup Feedback

Hello all! I'm new here and just wanted to say thanks, first of all. I've been browsing through this forum and researching many topics that have popped up in posts for about two weeks now, and I finally gave in yesterday and started to buy my first real aquarium setup.
I'm currently a college freshman living in a dorm, and the only pets we can have are fish, so that sparked my interest since we used to have a 10 gallon horror story (will get to that later) when I was a little kid. After reading up and getting at least fundamentally educated on the subject, I went out and got some basic "stuff" to get started and plan on getting most of the rest (except fish) this afternoon.

So far, this is what I have:
1: The 20 Gallon Marineland LED Tank kit, items in kit are:
-tank
-hood
-100W Heater
-Small packet of AquaSafe conditioner
-Penguin 150 filter

2: Fluval/AC50 filter

3: Gravel

4: Small bottle (up to 30g) Safe start

5: Decorations from old tank

6:Small air pump with stones, etc

I think the small packet of aquasafe will be enough to treat 20 gallons according to the directions on an additional bottle I looked at, but if there's a better conditioner that I should use/ use in addition with I will.

Filters... I'm guessing the Biowheel AND the AC50 is probably a little overdoing it, but I wanted to make sure I had plenty of overhead. I also wasn't sure which type of filter was better, so I thought it would be a good idea to get the Biowheel filter and an AC30 as well so I could take advantage of the benefits of both types and see which I prefer. Besides, two filters is safer than one and better for the bio system when you're cleaning them, right? The reason I got an AC50 instead of an AC30 is simple: the store had no AC30s and the 50 was only 5 bucks more!

Anyway, I plan on stopping by the wal mart later and picking up one of the cheap metal stands and whatever else I need.

I plan on having ghost shrimp, danios and tetras (if they get along) initially, and then once the tank is cycled and stable I'm going to get some glass catfish and an Otocinclus cat or two once there is sufficient algae. Would it be a good idea to get any fish tonight to start making ammonia for the TSS? Or should I wait until later? Are there any different fish/ inverts you would recommend? I'd like to stick with little fish and things like ghost shrimp because they don't add much to the bio-load, and the ones I listed are actually some of my favorite too!

Cycling. I kinda mixed that in earlier, but how exactly does it work? I read some of the forum tutorials, but I've read just as much conflicting information in other places and directions on products from putting fish and TSS AND conditioner in at the same time, to waiting to put fish in after TSS (which, according to the tutorial and my thoughts sounds like an opposite order since the bb NEED ammonia) so I'm kinda iffy there.

If there's anything I'm missing supplywise, methodwise, or that you would like to suggest, I'm all ears!

 

Most people recommend a fishless cycle, which can be done by adding ammonia regularly and doing water changes and constantly testing the water,
others will weigh in and tell you to read up on the nitrogen cycle to get a better understanding of things. For now, be patient and don't get any fish until other people on this forum say it's ok. They're very knowledgeable. Good luck!
And welcome

 

Like Graphix said, most people will recommend a fishless cycle. And while I do agree that this is the best, I understand that waiting is hard.

TSS is designed to be used with fish, so yes you'd need to add fish for it to work. I'd recommend adding the danios for this as they are very hardy fish. However, if you are patient enough to do a fishless cycle then good on you!

Both danios and tetras are schooling fish so they need to be in groups of about 5 or 6 at least. I don't know much about these fish, but I'd suggest making sure the tetras are a similar size to the danio.

Catfish are schooling fish as well. Stocking wise, I would choose one of the types you have suggested and have a group of about 3 or 4 of them. I've never kept class catfish but I keep otos and they're excellent and cleaning algae.

Good luck with your tank!

 

Depending on your taste, I think black phantom tetras would be awesome in your tank, they are very cool.

 

If you're going to cycle with fish, don't put shrimp in until your tank is completely cycled. They're very sensitive to changes and require zero Ammonia/Nitrite.

I don't like the idea of cycling with fish. Even though they have so-called products to lower Ammonia/Nitrite, your water is still unstable until you grow bacteria colonies.

 

I did the TSS method. Day 1 I set up the tank with declorinator and let run for 24 hours. Day 2: bought fish. Why they acclimated added the TSS to let it spread thru the tank. Then fish. In your set up I would reccomend the danios as well. Then wait ..... or I am waiting. The bottle says two weeks before water change. If my water readings look good after that. I plan on adding half of my first shoal. Then the other had two weeks from their and so on and so forth until I am stocked. .....

 

Getting there I'm actually filling it now and filtering part of the water through a Pur pitcher since the water at this school REEKS of bleach and hardness, is that overkill?


All set up!

 

looks awesome so far! That's the exact tank kit that I bought!! I am glad to see you bought another filter, because in my experience the Biowheel one will not work soon, the actual "wheel" that turns- it stops and gets "stuck" and after about 2 weeks or so of me having that filter on and running it started doing that and I tried everything, but it kept getting stuck so I eventually got another filter. But your setup looks awesome so far, just need decorations (obviously) and need to decide if you want real or fake plants- I had fake for 2 years and switched to mostly live plants now- but am still learning about that- but if you do want a live planted tank some of us know lots of info about that, me included. What type of fish are you considering? sorry if this was already mentioned above.. :/

 

looks awesome so far! That's the exact tank kit that I bought!! I am glad to see you bought another filter, because in my experience the Biowheel one will not work soon, the actual "wheel" that turns- it stops and gets "stuck" and after about 2 weeks or so of me having that filter on and running it started doing that and I tried everything, but it kept getting stuck so I eventually got another filter. But your setup looks awesome so far, just need decorations (obviously) and need to decide if you want real or fake plants- I had fake for 2 years and switched to mostly live plants now- but am still learning about that- but if you do want a live planted tank some of us know lots of info about that, me included. What type of fish are you considering? sorry if this was already mentioned above.. :/

Really? I sure hope that doesn't happen to my filter! And yes, I'm planning on getting more decorations and plants soon! I actually got some plant bulb "seeds" from Petsmart for a few bucks, but I haven't planted them yet, I wanted to get some feedback about planting before I did anything stupid! I like the idea of having plants to reduce nitrate and CO2 and that stuff, but I really don't know a thing about aquatic plants

Random question, how did you register your warranty for this kit? Do you have to register all the parts individually? Or is there some sort of part number for the whole kit or tank that I never saw?I see the sticker on my tank for the manufacture date, but I have no idea where the part number for it is.

Fishwise, I'm looking at some Zebra danios or some sort of danio, I love the zebras because they look like minI rainbow trout and are really active, some tetras, I was considering neons because I've always liked them too, but after looking up those black phantom tetras I'm not sure which of those I should check out. I'm also looking at glass catfish and Otocinclus cats, glass catfish are cool and the Otos will be nice to keep my tank clean. I wanna get some ghost shrimp too, but now I'm even second guessing that after reading from multiple people last night that they eat fry. I'd kinda like to breed my own fish and have a neverending supply


UPDATE: Going to Tractor Supply after class today to pick up a jug of ammonia and maybe an LFS if there is one here to get a test kit!
I just found out last night that TSC has the good pure stuff. It is made by Austin's, which is apparently the same company that makes the ACE Hardware ammonia, so for anyone else out there that needs ammonia for cycling and has no ACE Hardware, check out your TSC if you have one of those

 

In my opinion, black phantoms would be too large for this tank. They were one of my first fish and I kept them in a 30 gallon.

Ghost shrimp will definitely consume fry and even slow, small fish.

Otos can only be added to a well established tank, 6 months or older. Some will literally starve to death if there is not enough natural algae for their consumption.

 

In my opinion, black phantoms would be too large for this tank. They were one of my first fish and I kept them in a 30 gallon.

Ghost shrimp will definitely consume fry and even slow, small fish.

Otos can only be added to a well established tank, 6 months or older. Some will literally starve to death if there is not enough natural algae for their consumption.

Are there any shrimp I could get that DON'T eat fry? Like Yamatos?
What other tetras would you suggest then? Are neons okay if all the others are too large?
Yes, I don't plan on adding the Otos until AT LEAST december/ january depending on what kind of algae I have growing. It may well be after this spring semester when I move out to an apartment/ new dorm.

 

Really? I sure hope that doesn't happen to my filter! And yes, I'm planning on getting more decorations and plants soon! I actually got some plant bulb "seeds" from Petsmart for a few bucks, but I haven't planted them yet, I wanted to get some feedback about planting before I did anything stupid! I like the idea of having plants to reduce nitrate and CO2 and that stuff, but I really don't know a thing about aquatic plants

yes and okay good. Yeah I looked at those, and they are pretty cool, I might actually get some soon if I can. I have no idea how to plant the bulb seeds but do know some info about plants and their care etc and I didn't know anything about aquatic plants either till about 3 months ago LOL!

Random question, how did you register your warranty for this kit? Do you have to register all the parts individually? Or is there some sort of part number for the whole kit or tank that I never saw?I see the sticker on my tank for the manufacture date, but I have no idea where the part number for it is.

At the time, I don't even remember if mine came with a warranty, pretty stupid isn't it that I didn't even remember that! LOL! I got my kit back in Sept of 2011 so that was a pretty long time ago and to be honest I might have thrown the warranty away cause I was so excited to just get it all setup (yeah I was stupid to do that if I did).

Fishwise, I'm looking at some Zebra danios or some sort of danio, I love the zebras because they look like minI rainbow trout and are really active, some tetras, I was considering neons because I've always liked them too, but after looking up those black phantom tetras I'm not sure which of those I should check out. I'm also looking at glass catfish and Otocinclus cats, glass catfish are cool and the Otos will be nice to keep my tank clean. I wanna get some ghost shrimp too, but now I'm even second guessing that after reading from multiple people last night that they eat fry. I'd kinda like to breed my own fish and have a neverending supply

I have 5 Zebra Danios in my tank and I love love them, they are so pretty and calming and are beautiful fish, they swim near the top of the tank mostly, and sometimes all over the tank- but they swim near the top more at night than any other time cause that's when I feed them lol! I know nothing about glass catfish or Otos, but I would also love to have some catfish at the bottom of my tank- their little whiskers are so cute lol! yeah, I used to have some ghost shrimp too but they didn't do too well (not sure why) and died and ewww, I couldn't do that unless I had no other choice! lol! If you have any questions about anything or filters/fish/danios etc you can PM me if you want to.


UPDATE: Going to Tractor Supply after class today to pick up a jug of ammonia and maybe an LFS if there is one here to get a test kit!
I just found out last night that TSC has the good pure stuff. It is made by Austin's, which is apparently the same company that makes the ACE Hardware ammonia, so for anyone else out there that needs ammonia for cycling and has no ACE Hardware, check out your TSC if you have one of those

woah, really?! I didn't know TSC had that kinda stuff, that's cool!

My answers are going to be in red boldfaced below your question in the quote, cause I have a horrible memory and can't remember all those at once LOL!

 

Alright, just got back with the ammonia. I also picked up a big bottle of Prime from the LFS after seeing it come up so many times. I WAS gonna get a master test kit there, but I wasn't paying 40 bucks for the dang thing when I can get it for a fraction of that online or even back at home later this week.

Does anyone happen to know what the ammonia concentration needs to be initially for the TSS?

 

HI there Panzer!

Do not use any binding agents (Prime or similar products) while doing a fishless cycle. It will extend the time it takes to cycle the tank.

You cannot use ammonia with TSS. TSS is designed to be used with fish.. it will not work otherwise.

If you want to do a fishless cycle in roughly 7 days then purchase Dr Tim's One & Only Nitrifying Bacteria along with a bottle of his Ammonium Chloride drops. When you order the One & only he will toss in the Ammonium Chloride drops for free. You can order directly from his site at

Dr TI'm created both Tetra Safe Start and One & Only. As stated previously, TSS must be used with fish, whereas One & Only can be used with or without fish. If you use One & Only without fish, you need to use the Ammonium Chloride drops.

 

Well this is just terrific. I tried to adjust my heater to raise the temp another degree or two and get even closer to a good range, and the cheap plastic knob broke off

 

Well this is just terrific. I tried to adjust my heater to raise the temp another degree or two and get even closer to a good range, and the cheap plastic knob broke off

Take it back to the store!

 

Take it back to the store!

I would, but the heater was part of the marineland kit and the nearest Petsmart is almost an hour away! I emailed marineland and am working on getting one UPS'd here though

 

any more updates? that really sucks about your heater!

 

any more updates? that really sucks about your heater!

Uh, I kinda made a mess last night! I was putting ammonia in for the safe start a few hours before it was time to actually put the safe start in, and I used WAY too much.

I accidentally put almost 3ppm(I thought I had 26ppm in which is where the freakout came from before I sat down and actually did the math) in vs the 1-2 I wanted to put in since I had some decimals off, but this is the corrected info :
(~10-11mL of Ammonia that is 2% by weight= ~.02 grams of ammonia assuming the solution density is ~1g/mL since it's mostly water, even though water is only 1g/mL at a certain temperature, CLOSE ENOUGH ;D)

I figured out the ppm and mass needed by using this: 1gal water= 8.33lb 1lb=454g
So, I got 8.33X20X454= 75,636.4g X .000001 (1 millionth)= .0756g=1ppm
This should be good for extra credit with my chemical engineering teachers I swear


So I drained about 15 gallons of my tank thinking I had even more than that and didn't want to nuke my TSS. I refilled ALL of it with the Pur pitcher and a Katadyn water bottle since I didn't want to use more dechlorinator and wait more because of my impatient streak. (You don't ever want to do this... It took me over 3 hours LOL)
I added about 4-5mL of ammonia back into the tank and let that dissociate some, then added the safe start. I do have one of those seachem in-tank ammonia and pH readers and it climbed to the .5+ ppm range after adding the TSS and ammonia, but this morning it was lower, so I added another 4-5mL and sent it back above .5, now it's down to .2ppm again this afternoon, so I can only assume that the TSS is working!

If my ammonia levels are falling that fast, would it be safe and/or better to go ahead and get some danios to replace adding the straight ammonia into the tank? Are there any other nutrients the bacteria really need to grow?

Also, do I need to worry about the kH and gH yet? Are they anything to worry about at all? What about phosphates, copper, chlorine, and other things I saw test kits for? I'm assuming that the aquasafe took cafe of the chlorine and copper though

My pH is around 8... I'm guessing I need to lower that, or is that okay for right now?

 

I was putting ammonia in for the safe star

As stated previously in the thread, you cannot add ammonia with Tetra Safe Start. It will kill the bacteria. If you did this already, you'll need to dump all that water in the tank and start all over. This time add water, treat it with Prime, wait 24 hours (this step is crucial since dechlorinator will also kill the bacteria in the TSS) and then add TSS and fish.

Tetra Sate Start will not and can not work without fish.

 

As stated previously in the thread, you cannot add ammonia with Tetra Safe Start. It will kill the bacteria. If you did this already, you'll need to dump all that water in the tank and start all over. This time add water, treat it with Prime, wait 24 hours (this step is crucial since dechlorinator will also kill the bacteria in the TSS) and then add TSS and fish.

Tetra Sate Start will not and can not work without fish.

Omg I didn't see that last night after posting about the heater, I'm so sorry!

Random Question: Do you know why the TSS can't work with pure ammonia while Dr. Tim's can? What type of chemical difference is there? This is really interesting to me and I'd love to know the actual whys!

 

Don't apologize! /hugs
I just feel bad that if you did that, you'd need to start over.

 

Coming back from the LFS now! The guy working there suggested using some of their gravel in the tanks and some red minnows to get my tank cycled! Would this be a good move? It only cost me a dollar

 

No no no... don't do that lol. That's the most dangerous thing you could ever do is getting media from a LFS to seed your tank. You run an extremely high risk of infecting your tank with gosh only knows what (absolutely no fish store can guarantee their tanks with fish are disease, fungus, or parasite free).

I'm only curious; is there a specific reason you do not wish to use TSS for a fish-in cycle? It's really easy, and a lot safer than any of the other methods.

 

I'm not against using the TSS for a fish-in cycle, this LFS just wanted like 15 bucks after tax for the little bottle! I can go to wal mart next door and get it for literally less than half of that but they were sold out

I'm not against fish-in cycling, I'm just strongly against getting ripped off hehe

 

Ah, I see. Since you have no fish yet, Id wait to get an affordable bottle of TSS. It's your decision though. Patience is hard to come by when you want a nice fish tank set up!

 

Ah, I see. Since you have no fish yet, Id wait to get an affordable bottle of TSS. It's your decision though. Patience is hard to come by when you want a nice fish tank set up!

I do have fish now though, that store had feeder minnows 5 for a dollar, so that's cool, I actually think they're pretty cute! I guess I kinda am obligated to them to go to the next nearest wal mart and get them some TSS, right?

 

Yes. You probably should.

1: Do a large water change and add dechlorinator.
2: Wait exactly 24 hours.
3: Shake the bottle of TSS like crazy and dump it in.
4: Do not do a water change or add anything to the tank for 14 days.
4a; If the water chemistry becomes toxic (unlikely), you'll need to do a water change to save the fish. If you do this, you will have to start all over again with a new bottle of TSS.
4b: It's OK to check the water parameters every other day or so, but don't panic if the parameters fluctuate.
5: On day 15 you can do regular tank maintenance with a water change and gravel vac.

 

Woohoo! I'm in luck! They have tons at this other wal mart!

Yes. You probably should.

1: Do a large water change and add dechlorinator.
2: Wait exactly 24 hours.
3: Shake the bottle of TSS like crazy and dump it in.
4: Do not do a water change or add anything to the tank for 14 days.
4a; If the water chemistry becomes toxic (unlikely), you'll need to do a water change to save the fish. If you do this, you will have to start all over again with a new bottle of TSS.
4b: It's OK to check the water parameters every other day or so, but don't panic if the parameters fluctuate.
5: On day 15 you can do regular tank maintenance with a water change and gravel vac.

How much water do you suggest I change? Would 5 gallons be enough? I have a 20 gallon tank. Shouldn't the prime neutralize anything that's already in there though?

Also, my minnows seem fairly acclimated now, except for one.There is one group of three and another group of two that seem to be exploring together, but then there's one that's all by himself. Nobody is bothering him, but he seems to be content to sit in the middle of the tank and just swim against the draw of the filter. I'm worried that he is sick, but considering I just put him in he could be in shock or a lot of other things, right?

 

Uh, I kinda made a mess last night! I was putting ammonia in for the safe start a few hours before it was time to actually put the safe start in, and I used WAY too much.

I accidentally put almost 3ppm(I thought I had 26ppm in which is where the freakout came from before I sat down and actually did the math) in vs the 1-2 I wanted to put in since I had some decimals off, but this is the corrected info :
(~10-11mL of Ammonia that is 2% by weight= ~.02 grams of ammonia assuming the solution density is ~1g/mL since it's mostly water, even though water is only 1g/mL at a certain temperature, CLOSE ENOUGH ;D)

I figured out the ppm and mass needed by using this: 1gal water= 8.33lb 1lb=454g
So, I got 8.33X20X454= 75,636.4g X .000001 (1 millionth)= .0756g=1ppm
This should be good for extra credit with my chemical engineering teachers I swear


So I drained about 15 gallons of my tank thinking I had even more than that and didn't want to nuke my TSS. I refilled ALL of it with the Pur pitcher and a Katadyn water bottle since I didn't want to use more dechlorinator and wait more because of my impatient streak. (You don't ever want to do this... It took me over 3 hours LOL)
I added about 4-5mL of ammonia back into the tank and let that dissociate some, then added the safe start. I do have one of those seachem in-tank ammonia and pH readers and it climbed to the .5+ ppm range after adding the TSS and ammonia, but this morning it was lower, so I added another 4-5mL and sent it back above .5, now it's down to .2ppm again this afternoon, so I can only assume that the TSS is working!

If my ammonia levels are falling that fast, would it be safe and/or better to go ahead and get some danios to replace adding the straight ammonia into the tank? Are there any other nutrients the bacteria really need to grow?

Also, do I need to worry about the kH and gH yet? Are they anything to worry about at all? What about phosphates, copper, chlorine, and other things I saw test kits for? I'm assuming that the aquasafe took cafe of the chlorine and copper though

My pH is around 8... I'm guessing I need to lower that, or is that okay for right now?

oh my gosh, that totally sucks!! and I just read all your other stuff you posted that sucks about you having to start over! I did too though and yeah I am so impatient it is just insane lol! I totally suck at math, so all that stuff about the 1000xwhatever it was went right over my head and was like Japanese LOL!!!!!! !! I think my Danios are really cute too and they are part of the minnow family, what type of minnows did you get?

 

. I'm worried that he is sick, but considering I just put him in he could be in shock or a lot of other things, right?

how long ago did you put them in? My minnows were the same way for a while- they were acting kind of weird but they were just nervous and settled down after a while, it worried me too. I worry over everything LOL!

 

how long ago did you put them in? My minnows were the same way for a while- they were acting kind of weird but they were just nervous and settled down after a while, it worried me too. I worry over everything LOL!

I put them in about... maybe 3 hours ago tops? And about the math stuff, I can explain it to you if you'd like, just PM me! It may come in handy with chem stuff later

 

I put them in about... maybe 3 hours ago tops? And about the math stuff, I can explain it to you if you'd like, just PM me! It may come in handy with chem stuff later

okay, they are probably just still settling in- if there aren't that many places for them to hide they might be stressed a bit more. thanks for the offer but I have some kind of math disability (among other things as a result of being born 4 months early)- but you can still try if you want to explain it to me? lol! I just realized we are like in states next door to each other lol! What part of MS are you in? lol!

 

okay, they are probably just still settling in- if there aren't that many places for them to hide they might be stressed a bit more. thanks for the offer but I have some kind of math disability (among other things as a result of being born 4 months early)- but you can still try if you want to explain it to me? lol! I just realized we are like in states next door to each other lol! What part of MS are you in? lol!

I'm actually up at MSU right now, but I'm all over the place going home and stuff every now and then

 

I put them in about... maybe 3 hours ago tops? And about the math stuff, I can explain it to you if you'd like, just PM me! It may come in handy with chem stuff later

Some fish can take a few days to properly acclimate. I'm sure this guy will be fine

 

Some fish can take a few days to properly acclimate. I'm sure this guy will be fine

I sure hope so! Sure, they're only red minnows that the LFS sells a dime a dozen as feeder fish, but I still don't wanna hurt anybody

Step 1 has been fully accomplished with 15 gal of fresh water and this time conditioned with Prime I used a 2.5X strong dose to make sure I got every bit of chlorine and other junk out of this water because it does smell and seem SO bad hehe, waiting until tomorrow night to get the TSS started AGAIN

Update: I believe the minnows are acclimated now, I tried feeding them a little bit (probably a bit too much) and they're going crazy! I think the water change helped them a lot too, the ammonia is almost 0 now and they aren't as "huddle together in a corner and try to be invisible"-y. I think I need to do something about my filter current though, the AC50 seems to be fine and aimed down into the water, but the Penguin 150 seems like it's overdoing it a little, it looks like a stream in front of it!

 

I'm actually up at MSU right now, but I'm all over the place going home and stuff every now and then

awesome!! I live outside of Memphis TN, not going to college, am currently in photography school online- maybe we can PM each other and talk there about other stuff? rather than in the fish thread LOL! !

 

I haven't read the entire thread yet - lots of long posts

One thing that stuck out from your photos was that you washed your gravel in your sink. This is probably a bad idea, due to the possibility of soap residue. Get an Aquarium Only bucket for such tasks.

Looks like you are going about this in a very good way. Best of luck.

 

I haven't read the entire thread yet - lots of long posts

One thing that stuck out from your photos was that you washed your gravel in your sink. This is probably a bad idea, due to the possibility of soap residue. Get an Aquarium Only bucket for such tasks.

Looks like you are going about this in a very good way. Best of luck.

That's a good point, I never even thought about that! I did rinse the rocks a handful at a time trying to make sure they were absolutely clean, but I won't make that mistake again since I DO have a good bucket

 

50%. You do a large water change to ensure that the ammonia and nitrites are at a low enough level so that your fish are safe for the two weeks that you'll not be doing a water change. That and if those are too high it may cause issues with the TSS.

The minnow may just be getting use to his surroundings. It's hard to say really. While you're waiting for the TSS to work, you could do more research on what the behaviors are when fish stress. This way you will know what to look for.

That's a good point, I never even thought about that! I did rinse the rocks a handful at a time trying to make sure they were absolutely clean, but I won't make that mistake again since I DO have a good bucket

I did mine in the kitchen sink (after I sterilized the sink with bleach) with a large metal strainer. Works a lot better than a bucket and your back doesn't kill you afterwards!