New Tank Setup - New to Nitrogen Cycle

Are you doing a fish in cycle, fishless cycle or was your tank cycled and you had a sudden ammonia or nitrite spike?

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?: 5 gal
What type of water are you using in your tank? (tap, well, RO/DI, other): tap
When did you start cycling the tank?: about 2 weeks ago
What type of filtration are you running on this tank? (sponge, HOB, canister, other): manufactured cartridges
Do you have good water agitation/surface movement?: I believe so
What is the water temperature?: 79°

Products used while cycling
If this is a fishless cycle what ammonia source are you using? (fish food, Dr Tim’s ammonia, other):
If adding liquid ammonia how often do you dose ammonia in your tank and in what quantity? (1ppm, 2ppm etc.): None
If using fish food as your ammonia source how much are you adding and how often?: none
Are you using a dechlorinater and if so, which one?: no
Are you using bottled bacteria and if so, which one?: no
Did you add seeded media from a previously cycled tank?: no
What other products/chemicals are you using? (list them all):

Testing and cycling process
What was your knowledge of the nitrogen cycle before beginning to cycle your tank? (none, beginner, intermediate (please explain), advanced): beginner
What do you use to test the water? (API liquid, test strips, other): API Masterkit (edit)
Did you test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH, if so post the results below?:
Have you done any water changes and if so, when?:
How much water did you change?: 75%
Did you vacuum the substrate?: No
Did you clean your filter, filter media, decorations and/or glass?: no
If using disposable cartridges have you replaced one recently?: yes, however, rinsed dust off with tap water.


*Parameters - Very Important
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Tank Water:
Ammonia: 4.0 to 8.0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.6

Tap water:
Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.0

So, with all of the testing data out of the way, let me first say that I had betta fish for almost a year and a half. We had 3 tanks. All 3 were testing with same conditions and we were doing water changes once a week. I believe the high ammonia got them in the end, though, not really sure.

What I am focusing on right now is getting 2 tanks set back up with a fishless cycle.

The part I am not understanding about my tank is currently, we have gravel, water, and the filter cartridge. We can do a water change and about 2 days later, ammonia is already at 4.0 to 8.0 range, without the addition of fish food or anything to introduce ammonia into the tank.

The gravel is new and was only rinsed with tap water before adding to the tank and filling rest up with tap water and adding water conditioner.

I would like to add fish soon, but am not going to spend money on a fish, just to have it die within 2 weeks to a month.

As stated earlier, I have a beginners understanding of the nitrogen cycle. I get the adding of the fish food to simulate ammonia, but do I have to do that, since my ammonia is already at 4.0 to 8.0 ppm? Also, why are my nitrites and nitrates still at 0ppm? Is there anything I can do to get those to increase so the ammonia will decrease?

I did read the nitrogen cycle correct, right, or did I miss something?

Thanks,
Chris

 

Welcome to fishlore!

So basically, if I read this right, your ammonia is sitting high without you actually adding any in? What gravel did you use? I know some substrates designed for plants can give off ammonia so just want to rule that out as a possibility.

 

Hi

I can't see how the ammonia can be reading that high unless the gravel was contaminated or is a special planted mix.

Can you post a pic of the test results? Maybe there is a problem with the test method or the kit is out of date?

 

I am using Top Fin Premium Gravel.

The thought did cross my mind about a possible defective ammonia test solution. I get that tap water should essentially be reading roughly 0ppm, but our water reads at least 0.25ppm to 0.50ppm.

I will have to test the water again tonight and post pictures, as well as check the date on the test kit bottles.

I don’t live near a good fish store, so the big box store is all I have.

 

Welcome to Fishlore

I have to think your testing solution is giving you a correct reading since you get a different reading between tap and tank water but of course I can't be positive about that. If you have some handy you may want to run the ammonia test on some bottled drinking water. If you get a .25 reading with that water you can basically consider it your base reading.

If you will I would like to see a photo of this tank or maybe you can describe everything in the tank. Looking to see if you have any kind of resin decor sold as safe for aquarium use. The ammonia shouldn't be coming from the gravel but it is coming from something. Sometimes that something turns out being a piece of decor. Sometimes it is ammonia. Other times it is nitrites.

 

I get that tap water should essentially be reading roughly 0ppm, but our water reads at least 0.25ppm to 0.50pp

If ur tap water is reading .25 or .50 ppm, that's normal. Almost a lot of people including me have chloramine in their tap, which is just ammonia and chlorine combined to make a stronger bond of chlorine.

I'm really confused as to where you are getting that high ammonia from. You may want to do what mattgirl said and post a pic of the tank.

Also, I noticed that you said that you have cleaned your filter cartridges. I highly recommend that you don't clean ur filter stuff with tap water and only clean it with old tank water because the chlorine or chloramines in the tap will instantly kill whatever

 

Thanks for the replies so far. Since reading the Nitrogen cycle thread, I have learned that you should be using old tank water to rinse filter cartridges instead of tap water. I never knew that.

As soon as I am able, will get a picture of my tanks, along with tests from each water sample and post.
Thinking back to when we had a betta female in the tank, we did have a problem with algae. We cleaned all the decorations, heater, gravel. That was around 3-4 months ago.

When the fish passed on, we dumped all the water, gravel, and took out decorations.

I did do a big no-no when the fish passed on and cleaned and scrubbed the tank with dawn dish soap to try to get rid of the algae.

Could that be a big cause of the ammonia?

I know it kills all the good bacteria that was in the tank, so I try not to go down that road too often.


The heater had algae on it, but we have never cleaned it with soap, just tap water to rinse off the algae.

The filter pump has never been cleaned with soap, but rinsed with tap water.

About 3-4 weeks ago, I did fill the tank up with tap water, but did not add the water conditioner to it, or filter the water. During that time, no gravel or decorations were in the tank, however, the ammonia was still around a 4.0 to 8.0. That leads me to believe the ammonia has somehow attached itself to the tank glass.

Just trying to provide as much detail as possible as to why the ammonia is high.
Here are the pictures of each tank test and tap water test.

 

Thank you for all the details and the photos. To be perfectly honest, If you rinsed everything well after cleaning with Dawn I can't see that causing what we are seeing. What if any products are you adding to this tank? Meaning which water conditioner or anything other than just plain tap water has been added to the tanks?

All 3 tanks are showing high ammonia. What, other than the same tap water. are you adding to all 3 tanks? Since you have little to no ammonia in your tap water and it isn't just appearing out of no where I have to think it is coming from something that is being added to all 3 tanks.

Were these tanks ever used for anything other than fish? If they were used for any kind of reptiles or even furry animals it is possible the silicon is leaching ammonia.

One more question. Are we just talking about the one tank right now? Just the one with the gravel in it? Were the test results you have shown for the other 2 tanks the readings you were getting when there was a fish in them or are both of the other tanks still set up and running with no fish?

One other thing we are going to have to look into is your pH level. It looks to be well below 7. A tank struggles to cycle with it so low. But first we need to determine where the ammonia is coming from.

 

My main focus right now is tank 1 and tank 2. Those are the 2 tanks with just the brown gravel in them.

Tank 1 and Tank 2 have a pH of around 7.2 to 7.6.

I added tank 3 as a comparison, because that tank has never been cleaned with dawn. It has a pH of well below 7.0.

The only thing I am adding to the tanks after doing a water change is the water conditioner.

One thing I forgot to mention above during all of my tank cleaning. After I cleaned the tank, I filled it up with plain tap water. I didn’t have any gravel, filter, heater, or add any conditioner. About 2 weeks of it just sitting, I measured the ammonia and it was around 4.0 to 8.0. I thought it could be high due to no filtration. That leads me to believe the tank itself is contaminated or has some kind of residue on it that suddenly appeared. I have never used the tank as reptile enclosures or housed any other pets in them besides the fish.

Is it possible that they could have been contaminated from the pet store and we never knew it without doing a water test or cycling them from previous fish?

We made the mistake that first time owners make and buy the tank, fill with water, and then check water levels a week later, to find out high ammonia and then kill a fish.

I’ve read some posts about some Bio-spira. I have never used that water conditioner before, but curious if it is worth the price and would possibly solve our issue.

 

Bio-spira isn't actually a water conditioner. It is bottled bacteria. It might help but first we have to figure out where the ammonia is coming from. Which water conditioner are you using? Are you by any chance using ammo-lock?

The ammonia should not have built up in a tank even without a filter running. Is it possible some kind of room freshener or any thing at all has been sprayed and could have gotten in the tanks? I simply cannot imagine where the ammonia is coming from.

 

I have some ammo-lock, however, have never used it on tank 1 or tank 2. I did use it for tank 3.
The only other thing we did was sand and refinish some antique furniture and put a coat of poly on the furniture. If you have ever used wood stain and poly before, it gives off an odor that would give you a headache. That was around the beginning of November. I would suspect if the fumes somehow contaminated the water/tank, it would have disappeared with a few water changes. Sorry, still throwing out suggestions and trying to remember everything. They say you can never provide too many details, as that may be the key that solves the whole problem.

 

Good. Ammo-lock is one product that should come with a warning "Do Not Use While Cycling a Tank" The only time I can see using this product is if there is a spike in ammonia and one can't do a water change right then.

I agree, if this came for the refinishing project water changes should have helped. I am going to suggest an experiment. Put some tap water in a clean glass container. Add the recommended amount of water conditioner for the amount of water in the container. Run your ammonia test on this container. Let's find out if the ammonia goes up in it. If it doesn't you may have to totally break down these tanks and start over.

 

Ok, I’m all for experimenting. Also, I will look at the exp date for my conditioner. Oh, one other thing I should mention. During all of this process, we have only had the heaters and filters running. The lights have always been off, so algae doesn’t start growing. I read somewhere on the web that lighting could cause algae growth.

What does breaking down the tanks and starting over entail? Does that mean pulling off the silicone seal and resealing with new silicone, or is it thoroughly cleaning the tank by some other means besides soap and tap water?

 

Ok, I’m all for experimenting. Also, I will look at the exp date for my conditioner. Oh, one other thing I should mention. During all of this process, we have only had the heaters and filters running. The lights have always been off, so algae doesn’t start growing. I read somewhere on the web that lighting could cause algae growth.

Leaving lights on too long does often cause algae. Since the cycling process doesn't need light keeping it off is a good idea.

What does breaking down the tanks and starting over entail? Does that mean pulling off the silicone seal and resealing with new silicone, or is it thoroughly cleaning the tank by some other means besides soap and tap water?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Breaking down is removing everything, cleaning the tank and everything going back in it. I would start with fresh media in the filters too. Be sure you clean the inside of the filters well.

If it were me doing it I would clean with bleach. Be sure you wear gloves while working with the bleach and do it in a well ventilated area. I would fill the tanks with fresh water and add about a cup of bleach to each tank. Make sure the bleach has no fragrances added. I would run the filter with no media in it. Be sure to clean well under the rims with a soft brush. Let the bleach water set in the tank for at least 15 minutes. Once done empty the bleach water out and rinse really really well. Once you are sure the tanks are rinsed well enough fill them back up with fresh water and add a double dose of your water conditioner. Turn the well rinsed filters on to pull the dechlorinated water through them.

If you aren't comfortable using bleach the second best option would be a mixture of vinegar and baking soda. Scrub the inside of tank and filters with this combo, again making sure to get underneath the rim cleaned well. Once you are sure it is clean rinse, rinse and rinse some more.

 

I filled 2 coffee mugs with tap water. One of them has tap water in it, the other has tap water+water conditioner. How long should I leave them sitting? How long should wait before checking water? How often?
I am also good working with bleach, as long as I remember to wear clothes I don’t mind ruining, just to be safe.

 

I filled 2 coffee mugs with tap water. One of them has tap water in it, the other has tap water+water conditioner. How long should I leave them sitting? How long should wait before checking water? How often?
I am also good working with bleach, as long as I remember to wear clothes I don’t mind ruining, just to be safe.

At one point you said the ammonia went up to 4-8ppm within a couple of days so let's give the experiment at least that long. Run the test about the same time each day for at least 3 days.

BTW: Which water conditioner are you using. there are so many different brands. The only two I have ever used are Tetra AquaSafe and Prime. I always use Prime now.

 

I am using Top Fin. I may have to go out to buy either some Tetra, API, or Prime.

 

I am using Top Fin. I may have to go out to buy either some Tetra, API, or Prime.

Your TopFin may be fine as long as it isn't way past its best by date.

 

Hello,
Sorry that it took me so long to do the water tests in the cups. I initially had it working on the 14th, however, I missed the 3rd day and didn’t think about it until the 7th day. I checked the ammonia level on the 7th day and it was already getting high. I decided to start over at that point.

I just checked the levels of tap water and tap water/conditioner.

The plain tap water is already high, after 3 days. The tap water/conditioner is still hovering around the 1.0 range.

I’m thinking at this point, probably better start looking for some unscented bleach to run through the tanks.

You mentioned cleaning tanks with bleach, then running through filter with about a cup of bleach in each tank?

When I do that, should the filter cartridge be in the filter system or out?

I’m thinking out, as the bleach that gets absorbed into the filter media would possibly contaminate the tank.

Thanks,

 

I’m thinking out, as the bleach that gets absorbed into the filter media would possibly contaminate the tank.

I wouldn't have any media in the filters. I mentioned running the filters so the inside of the filters get cleaned. Once all the cleaning is done I would start with brand new media in the filters.

 

Hello,
Long time since I posted. I just cleaned my tanks as mattgirl suggested with a cup of bleach and am now running fresh, tap water in them, without media filters. How long should I run that for and when do I need to change out the water?

also, when do I start the nitrogen cycle?

 

If your tank is full of clean water, add a tap water conditioner and then add ammonia as a nitrogen source (if it’s a FISHLESS cycle!) I used clear ammonia from the supermarket and an online calculator. It took 2tsp ammonia for my 55 gal to get to 2 ppm. I turned the heat up to 83°F and kept the lights off. It took about 6 weeks for cycle to start.