New tank, populating! :D

Hi!

After what seems like ages, I finally have (almost) everything I need for my 160L tank. All the equipment, additives, test kits, gravel etc. Now there are two things I'd like some advice on...

Lighting:
Right now I only have a 40W light (my tank is 43 US gallons), so on a very low light. I'll probably get a second 40W at some time in the future, but for now, will this be okay? Would this much light be sufficient for lowlight plants like java moss, anubias and java ferns?

Fish ;D
Here is a list of what I'm planning to have...

3x Zebra otocinclus
2x Dwarf Gourami (1 male, 1 female)
1x Red Clawed Crab
Some Neon Tetras and/or Black Neon Tetras
Some Guppies (male)
Some shrimps
Some Platies
Some Barbs

These are all available in my local fish stores, and from what I've read should do alright together in a community tank. But are there any combinations there that I should avoid? How many guppies/platies/barbs should I have together to keep them and the other fish happy? Would the numbers of the other fish be okay like this?

And the big question... which do I add first? Ideally it'd be the otos, because they might be sold out soon and I want to get my hands on them, being zebras an'all...

I'm also considering maybe adding a single betta or angel at a later stage, but I'll wait until the tank is nicely established before that.

Thanks a lot!

~bill

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Glad the tank is coming together for you and a very interesting group you want in your tank too.
The crab will most likely eat your fish and inverts (sorry).
The Betta isn't advisable with the Betta, the angel would be a better Idea.
I love planning new tanks, the research is almost as exciting as stocking the tank
I don't think I got a chance to -WELCOME TO FISHLORE!!!
Carol

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Thanks!

The crab is quite small: but I think I'll leave buying one for a while... I'd really prefer not to have my fish eaten I'll leave the angel till later too, but it'd be so cool to have one of them! Are otocinclus hardy enough to be added to a ank right after cycling, or would guppies/platuies etc. be better? Also, and I don't mean to sound heartless, but the otos are ?3 each and tetras, guppies are like 50p, and I'm very poor, so a bunch of more expensive fish dying would be a bit of a risk :/

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Wow. You found 3 zebra otos! Cool. I was ordering some at my LFS but they warned me that they got to about twice the size as regular otos, so I left it.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Really? I've read everywhere that they are only tiny (4.4cm or even less)!

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

good profile on zebra otos.
Carol

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Thanks for that, Carol. In your link, it mentions they only get to 1.5". I am starting to suspect my pet store guy was talking about another kind of oto, or even of catfish altogether. I'll ask him to point them out to me next time they're in.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Thanks for that, Carol. In your link, it mentions they only get to 1.5". I am starting to suspect my pet store guy was talking about another kind of oto, or even of catfish altogether. I'll ask him to point them out to me next time they're in.

lol.. I love it when they give such good info at the store.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Well you never know. I kind of trust that guy 80%. That's 80% more than any other fish store guy, so it's a good score! I'll wait and see next time he gets 'zebra otos' in.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Well you never know. I kind of trust that guy 80%. That's 80% more than any other fish store guy, so it's a good score! I'll wait and see next time he gets 'zebra otos' in.

yea, that's true.. maybe he was thinking of zebra plecos.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Yeah, or zebra blue whales! That would explain the slight size confusion.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Yeah, or zebra blue whales! That would explain the slight size confusion.

Sadly, the zebra blue whales are extinct.. if only people had found a better source for whoopie cushions sooner. :'(

 

Progress!

OK, so I've got some plants and filled it up! Hornwort, Anubias, Java Fern on driftwood, Java Moss and some other lowlight plant... (I've got 40w light for a 43US Gallon tank). The water is quite cloudy from the gravel dust (rinsed it loads but I guess I couldn't get everything out!) but that should settle in a day or two, right? I haven't turned the filter, air pump or heater yet, cos I thought the air pump and filter would get clogged quickly by all the dust. Now I'm just waiting for an API Freshwater Master Test Kit and a presoaked 20" piece of MopanI bogwood to arrive from eBay ;D

I've read in several places that as I have plants in the tank, I can just leave it for a couple of weeks and it should cycle itself. I have Stress Zyme and Prime, as well as a plant fertiliser - will adding these speed the process up, and if so, when should I add them? In fact, I still need to dechlorinate the tank using prime... I filled it straight from a hose because it's so big, but smaller water changes will be performed with a bucket, which I understand is better.

Anyway, am I doing everything right at this point? ??? I'd be grateful for any advice. Andis it okay to add my otos first, or should I add tetras instead?

Thanks!

~Bill

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

I could be wrong, but I think you still need to provide an ammonia source to cycle the tank fishless.. the plants will help with the nitrates, but otherwise I think you have to cycle the tank the same as if you ddin't have plants.

i'd add the otos last probably as they're the most sensitive to water conditions.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

the plants will actually help you consume some of the nitrates/nitrites/ammonia. if you have enough plants, you'll actually undergo a "silent cycle" where the plants will take up all the ammonia (and as a result, there won't be nitrites/nitrates).

you don't even need to wait a few weeks after you put the plants in. if you're going heavily planted (i'm not sure if you are or not), you can actually put fish in to start, and not even really have to worry about the ammonia.

the only thing I think I would do that you havn't is turn on the filter. it'll help you get the particulates out of the water. you can then rinse off the filter pad in old tank water when you do a change.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

Thanks! I think I'll need to wait for my test kit to find out... What do you think would count as a "heavily planted" tank? Cos like I said, my tank is very low-light, and I'm not sure how many plants would be happy in there. The silent cycle sounds awesome! ;D I think I'm going to put Red Eye Tetras in first, they sound ideal for my setup and are very hardy.

Thank again

~Bill

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

OK, turned the filter on... it's quite noisy at the moment, hoping it'll quieten down a bit once it's got going.It seems very powerful - the jet of water coming from it is really strong, pushing the hornwort around the top really fast! I hope it'll work out OK, I'm getting nervous now it's turned on...

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

what brand/type of filter is it? does it have an adjustable flow? is the filter in a corner or the center of the tank?

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

It's a Fluval 4 Plus:

I put it in the corner. I could put it in the middle, but it's huge so it looks nicest in the corner. It has started to get a bit quieter, but the water hasn't got any less cloudy. It does have an adjustable flow; do you think I should turn it down?

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

ahh.. yea, I have 1 filter similiar to that.. it clogs up easily so be sure to check yours as you can for clogging. I'd turn it down to the point where you'll end up with at least the far corner having a peaceful spot.

 

Re: Setting up! Help me populate

I decided to turn it off and let the dust settle by itself, and I moved it into the middle too so there should be a lot less flow wh

Hopefully tomorrow the water will be clear, then I'll post some photos! I've just found out that my "silent" air pump is in fact noisier than the filter At least it's all coming together now anyway

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Hopefully tomorrow the water will be clear, then I'll post some photos! I've just found out that my "silent" air pump is in fact noisier than the filter At least it's all coming together now anyway

when we used to have gravel, I found "AccuClear" to work pretty good at helping clear up the dust storms from the gravel.

 

Re: Progress!

OK, so I've got some plants and filled it up! Hornwort, Anubias, Java Fern on driftwood, Java Moss and some other lowlight plant... (I've got 40w light for a 43US Gallon tank). The water is quite cloudy from the gravel dust (rinsed it loads but I guess I couldn't get everything out!) but that should settle in a day or two, right? I haven't turned the filter, air pump or heater yet, cos I thought the air pump and filter would get clogged quickly by all the dust. Now I'm just waiting for an API Freshwater Master Test Kit and a presoaked 20" piece of MopanI bogwood to arrive from eBay ;D

I've read in several places that as I have plants in the tank, I can just leave it for a couple of weeks and it should cycle itself. I have Stress Zyme and Prime, as well as a plant fertiliser - will adding these speed the process up, and if so, when should I add them? In fact, I still need to dechlorinate the tank using prime... I filled it straight from a hose because it's so big, but smaller water changes will be performed with a bucket, which I understand is better.

Anyway, am I doing everything right at this point? ??? I'd be grateful for any advice. Andis it okay to add my otos first, or should I add tetras instead?

Thanks!

~Bill

I was using prime at first, but it was locking up the ammonia, so my cycle was going really slow. I would wait a while to treat with prime...that is if u have already dechlorinated the water...

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Thanks!

The gravel dust STILL hasn't settled as I write.... it's taking ages to settle, and as it does, it's making all the plants dusty too :-\ AccuClear sounds good, but would it be possible simply to wait until tomorrow and just vacuum everything? I've already given one dose of prime, but I'll use a different dechlorinator for my next water changes while cycling.

~Bill

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

yea, you could. what accuclear does is cause the small particles to 'clump up' so they become bigger and get caught by the filter.

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

We have algae/green water treatments at home which work in the same way, but no AccuClear :-/ Do you think they might help?

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

We have algae/green water treatments at home which work in the same way, but no AccuClear :-/ Do you think they might help?

I wish I could say, but i've not tried those. I don't think they would, but I could be wrong.

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Well, I filled up and heavily vacuumed the tank FOUR TIMES yesterday and the cloudiness barely reduced. :-\ It could be that the particles left are so small that they'll stay in suspension, bu the other possibility is that (since it's regular garden gravel) the gravel contains soluble stone such as limestone. Guy at my lfs said to test the pH, and I duly did so; it is 7.2 out of the tap, and 7.6 in my tank... is that big enough a difference to conclude that some grave is dissolving? It's about 40kg/80lbs., so taking it out is going to be a big hassle. I'm going to put it in a toboggan and rinse like crazy, then test it in a smaller clear container for cloudiness... if it is still cloudy I'll have to buy aquarium gravel from the lfs (?0.40p/kg, whereas regular gravel was ?2.49/25kg). >

All in all, I am feeling very frustrated right now. Why can't it just be simple? :'(

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Well, I filled up and heavily vacuumed the tank FOUR TIMES yesterday and the cloudiness barely reduced. :-\ It could be that the particles left are so small that they'll stay in suspension, bu the other possibility is that (since it's regular garden gravel) the gravel contains soluble stone such as limestone. Guy at my lfs said to test the pH, and I duly did so; it is 7.2 out of the tap, and 7.6 in my tank... is that big enough a difference to conclude that some grave is dissolving? It's about 40kg/80lbs., so taking it out is going to be a big hassle. I'm going to put it in a toboggan and rinse like crazy, then test it in a smaller clear container for cloudiness... if it is still cloudy I'll have to buy aquarium gravel from the lfs (?0.40p/kg, whereas regular gravel was ?2.49/25kg). >

All in all, I am feeling very frustrated right now. Why can't it just be simple? :'(

HI Bill
Ive been following your posts... have you solved the cloudy water problem yet? It sounds like your garden gravel does contain some kind of limestone or a stone that breaks down with water. did you notice if your gravel crushes easily? It may very well be a construction type gravel that is used by landscapers. You may have to end up getting aquarium gravel at some point. I think if it was limestone, yes it would affect your PH reading. As the limestone will lower your PH. good luck and let us know how it all ended for you! ~ kate

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Thanks Kate,

Today I siphoned off all the water and filled the sledge with gravel and sieved it, then put it in a bucket of water. This was with a few kilos of gravel; I fully rinsed a bucketful about 10 times, and it only got cloudier! No wonder three full vacuums didn't clear it up. Most of the gravel seems flinty and hard, but it may well be that there are some crushable pieces in there that are causing the problem. Anyway, my dad and I decided that it was never going to be suitable for the aquarium, so scooped it all out then vacuumed the residues up (with an actual wet/dry vacuum cleaner, not a siphon!). I treated the water, rinsed everything and now the plants and filter/heater/air pump are all in there, and the water is great! ;D So the cloudy water problem is fixed, and the filthy gravel is gone ^^

I'll go out and buy some aquarium gravel tomorrow, it's guaranteed inert Dorset pea gravel apparently, so I'll test some in a bucket, do any necessary rinsing and then add it straight into the water. Then I can finally start cycling... phew. At least I have some stress zyme and a healthy goldfish tank to speed that up a bit!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

~Bill

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Thanks Kate,

Today I siphoned off all the water and filled the sledge with gravel and sieved it, then put it in a bucket of water. This was with a few kilos of gravel; I fully rinsed a bucketful about 10 times, and it only got cloudier! No wonder three full vacuums didn't clear it up. Most of the gravel seems flinty and hard, but it may well be that there are some crushable pieces in there that are causing the problem. Anyway, my dad and I decided that it was never going to be suitable for the aquarium, so scooped it all out then vacuumed the residues up (with an actual wet/dry vacuum cleaner, not a siphon!). I treated the water, rinsed everything and now the plants and filter/heater/air pump are all in there, and the water is great! ;D So the cloudy water problem is fixed, and the filthy gravel is gone ^^

I'll go out and buy some aquarium gravel tomorrow, it's guaranteed inert Dorset pea gravel apparently, so I'll test some in a bucket, do any necessary rinsing and then add it straight into the water. Then I can finally start cycling... phew. At least I have some stress zyme and a healthy goldfish tank to speed that up a bit!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

~Bill

That's great! finally just to get rid of that headache. I use the natural pea gravel in our tanks and its really nice! Good luck with that and on your cycling the tank!
;D

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Thanks! ^^ I'm going to buy a couple of kilos of gravel on the way home from school this afternoon, and I'll buy the rest I need later on in the evening (my lfs is great, it's open till 6pm on weekdays, 4pm on Sundays and 8pm on Saturdays! )

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Thanks! ^^ I'm going to buy a couple of kilos of gravel on the way home from school this afternoon, and I'll buy the rest I need later on in the evening (my lfs is great, it's open till 6pm on weekdays, 4pm on Sundays and 8pm on Saturdays! )

you're still in school?...ITS JULY!!!!! ;D

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

I hope that you're not needing to swim to school lately.

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Nope, no flooding here. And today is the last day of term! (for me at least, I'm going to a music festival tomorrow so I leave one day early)

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

with all the rain that wimbledon brought, i'm glad you're still above water. and the last day of school is reason to celebrate!

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

to celebrate, you should go get some cool fish!

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

When I get back from the festival, my tank should be cycled and I'll be able to start adding fish! ;D There are Dutch Rams and Red Line Torpedo Barbs in my LFS now Seriously cool...

A new Fish Wish List:

Dwarf Gourami
Red Eye Tetras (6)
Zebra otos (3)
Dutch Ram
Veiltail Angel
Neon tetras (6)
Guppies (3)
Platies (3)
Maybe other tetras?

Red Line Torpedos are cool, but they get to 15cm and prefer to be kept in a group, so my 160L would be a bit small if I were to have a little shoal of them.

Do you think that list is viable? Numbers of the fish okay, none that are too picky about water conditions etc.? I know that Rams are a little sensitive, but I'll wait until my tank is well established before deciding to buy one.

And finally... which fish should I add first?

Cheers!!

~Bill

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

I would add one of the tetras first, and I don't think you should have many...if any problems ;D

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

Do you think 5 red eyes would be ok?

 

Re: Setting up, finally! Please help me get established

i'm not sure ???, better let some one else answer that one