New tank! General advice is appreciated

Hello Fishlore! I've been lurking the forum for weeks and became extremely paranoid, so I decided to come forward and ask for help.

My sister gifted me a Boyu MS-320 back on March 1st. Capacity is about 3 gallons, it comes with a LED lamp attached to the lid that for some reason has white, red and blue bulbs that create a really cool looking pink shade of light (any reason for this?).

It comes with an overhead filter, I don't really know what type of filter it qualifies as but it siphons water from the lower right corner of the tank, into a tube that cascades the water through a cotton-like sponge and then back into the aquarium. The box says it pushes about 40 gal/hour. I don't like having it on at all times because there's a couple of clumsy swimmers, but I leave it running for about two hours daily to get rid of the bigger contaminants.

Here's a pic of it! It's been set up for a month with rocks and plants from a cycled tank. I started adding livestock gradually after week one. I only kept an aquarium once when I was much younger, and even though it was moderately successful, I obviously didn't take proper care of it by a long shot.






I wasn't present during the setup, but I've had the opportunity to talk with the person who did it. It has a generic "mineral-enriched substrate" that looks like pebbles, but has started slowly decomposing into something more resembling of soil. On top of it there's regular smooth pebbles, which were new and not from another tank.

Unfortunately I can't identify the plants (other than a bit of duckweed I was given by a friend) so that's the first thing that I'd appreciate getting help with.


As for the livestock:

The centerpiece is a juvenile african dwarf frog that seems to be doing OK. I think I got lucky because I haven't had any trouble feeding it and it hunts down the food without any encouragement. I've been alternating between betta pellets (which it loves) and regular flakes, and feed the tank every other day.





An otocinclus. I was very concerned about it because I read that their survivability is really low, but it's actually grown a bit since its arrival, remains very active and seems to be thriving. It feeds on the glass, plants and gravel all day, and I put in a thin slice of boiled zucchinI overnight once a week. He goes crazy over it.





Next, a flying fox. This guy is all over the place, constantly scrubbing the plants. It also eats flakes and has tried to munch on a betta pellet once or twice, but doesn't seem to like them. It's a regular attendant of zucchinI party too.





In addition, I have two kuhlI loaches that live under the big rock, which is slightly raised. They're timid, but incredibly active at night. They feed on the flakes and pellets that sink to the bottom, and I've seen them curious about the zuchinnI but I can't say for sure if they eat from it.




I've been doing 30% water changes weekly and lightly scrubbing the front glass with a sponge attached to a stick. I live in a tropical country, so the temperature is always hovering around 68-70 degrees. You might have noticed that the tank is in direct sunlight. It's placed so that it receives plenty of heat during the morning hours so the temp raises to 75-77, depending on the weather. By noon the sun no longer shines on it, but the temperature remains constant until night.

I haven't done any water parameter tests yet (this has me on my nerves) but I ordered an API master test kit and it's already on the way, along with a bottle of HBH frog bites. I also plan on getting two or three cherry shrimp to make sure any and all waste is at least moved around a bit, but because of the quarantine I haven't been able to go pick them up.

I'd appreciate any feedback you could give me, but I also have some specific questions. To summarize:

• Since I have two algae feeders, I know it's better if I leave some of it growing freely in the thank. Judging by the pictures, how much is too much? Should I clean the glass more, or diminish the amount of sunlight hours?
• Am I on the verge of overcrowding? Are the shrimp a bad idea?
• What plants do I have? Should I inject CO2?
• Is the temperature change throughout the day a cause for concern? Should I try to stick to the same temperature 24/7?
• Are the feeding habits I'm keeping ok?
• Should I be keeping the filter on at all times?

As you can probably tell, I'm extremely nervous, but also extremely excited about my aquarium. Thanks in advance for all the help you can provide!

 

Stop turning off your filter

 

Stop turning off your filter

Makes total sense, I just didn't feel comfortable because the frog and loaches don't seem to appreciate the constantly moving water, and become very restless. I guess they'll have to cope .

 

Another thing is I would get it out of direct sunlight. You will get algae blooms and temperature spikes.

 

your tank is VERY overstocked. flying foxes grow to 5 inches, kuhlis are like little hot dogs when full grown and you need more. get yourself a 20-30 gallon and put them in it once cycled AND ADD MORE KUHLIS. if not possible, return the kuhlis and flying fox. if you do route 2, some shrimp MIGHT be fine.



EDIT: Agree with below

 

Honestly, you are way overcrowded now for a 3 gallon. Id only put a single Betta in a 3 gallon, and even 3 gallons is a little less than ideal. 3 gallons is really only enough for some shrimp or a snail.

The tank shouldnt be sitting in direct sunlight. The temps will fluctuate too much.

Your ADF needs a much larger tank. Like 15-20 anyway.

Your KuhlI would do better in a small group (4-6) AND it needs temps WAY warmer than you're keeping it at. 82-84 would be ideal for him. He won't survive in 68-77 with it going up and down.

Your Flying Fox is all over the place because the tanks WAY too small. He needs like 30 gallons, especially since he'll be 5 inches when full grown.

Your tank will have an ammonia spike soon, then a nitrite spike. Its really way overstocked and incorrectly stocked.

 

Welcome to the forum. Other than that, I don't have anything to add to the above except to say that most of us started out making similar mistakes so don't feel like you're the only one. I'm sure it won't be long until you're answering questions and helping other people.

 

yeah. my origanal stocking plan for my 10 gallon was 8 lyretalI mollies, a pictus and a striped rapheal catfish. luckily, my mother made me do research.

 

Thanks for all the help! So the main problem seems to be the size of the tank, especially since most of what I already have will grow several inches. I could tell it was already a little bit "cozy", but I suppose everything has worked out so far because all of them are probably juveniles. I hadn't considered that, and it's definitely not sustainable in the long term.

DuaneV, what do you mean exactly when you say it's "incorrectly stocked"? Would it not be enough to move my current stock to a cycled 20~gal?

 

it'll work (if not crowded) long term.

 

Otocinclus prefer to live in groups of at least 5 and should have a larger tank, I made the same mistake of only getting one oto when I started out.

 

[QUOTE="Questionclaw, post: 4525494, member: 122449"
DuaneV, what do you mean exactly when you say it's "incorrectly stocked"? Would it not be enough to move my current stock to a cycled 20~gal?
[/QUOTE]

Incorrectly stocked as in not suitable for a 3 gallon AND not suitable for each other AND not in proper groups. Your Kuhlis need REALLY warmer temps than the others. They are a very particular fish and one of the few that do much better in warmer water (82-84) and not so great in cooler temps (less than 78).

Your KuhlI needs 82-84
Flying Fox needs mid to upper 70's
Oto needs mid to upper 70's
ADF wants upper 70's

You COULD move everyone (minus the Kuhlis) to a 30 gallon (minimum for a Flying Fox in my opinion as they get big and are active) and keep the tank at 78, but you can NOT have it in the sun and it HAS to have a heater set on 78. Its on the upper end for the Otos and Flying Fox, but it will just make their metabolism a little faster, making them a little more hungry, active and it might shorten their life span a little. If you keep the Kuhlis in temps in the 70's it will slow their metabolism, cause digestion issues, theyll be less active and more prone to sickness and disease.

 

Makes total sense, I just didn't feel comfortable because the frog and loaches don't seem to appreciate the constantly moving water, and become very restless. I guess they'll have to cope .

maybe the flow is just too strong for them. if they'll be there for a while until you can move them into a bigger tank, maybe you can baffle the output with a cutout of prefilter sponge or something to lessen the flow. in an overstocked tank turning the filter off can be a bit dangerous unless it's absolutely necessary, like during a water change

 

The African dwarf frog needs at least 2 friends. 5 gallons per frog is ideal, but a 10 gallon can work. It may not be a good idea to put them in a tank over 12 inches tall. They have to swim to the surface to breathe, and they can get exhausted. And, if you were to add more fish, they might not be able to compete for food.

It is good to see the kuhlI loaches out in the open, but it is not normal. with just the two, they should be hiding, and I worry that they are only out and about because they are stressed. 8-15 is a more ideal number for a shoal of kuhlis.

The flying fox is a schooling fish that should be in a minimum school of 6
Ottos are also a schooling fish, the bare minimum for a school is 6

both of those fish eat algae. It is not ideal to keep both species.

You should be fine to keep all of these species at 78 degrees if the temp is stable 24/7
your questions =
.Algae is a live plant, there is no such thing as too much. You should not be using sunlight to grow algae in the tank with the fish, as it will change the temperature. and Tropical fish need to have a stable temperature 24/7.
The filter Must stay on Always, to develope and keep the nitrogen cycle. Once you have a good sized tank, it should not bother the fish as much, but there are DIY ways to diffuse any filter for those fish that are still bothered.
You can use your three gallon to grow algae in the sun to feed fish in a larger tank.

To keep a minI'm 6 kuhlies, 6 flying foxes, 6 ottos your looking at a 30 gallon long

FYI, I made some mistakes getting started too. Heck I made mistakes a month ago.

 

Only thing I can add: The Oto and the Flying Fox both look very thin. Wouldn't be surprised if the Oto is going to die soon and if the Flying Fox has internal parasites. Especially Otos need food available constantly. ZucchinI is good, but once a week is not enough. It can take as little as 24h to start them to starve. Adding zucchinI daily on the other hand can ruin the water parameters.

 

Thank you all for your input! There's several serious mistakes, of course, but at least in the short term the situation doesn't look critical.

The loaches actually stay under the big rock or the bush-like plant most of the day, and come out to swim once it's dark. If you notice, the photo of the loach has a pink tint and that's because it was already dark out and I turned on the tank light to snap a quick picture.

I left the filter on all afternoon and, after swimming frantically against the water flow for a while, the frog took refuge under the big rock with the loaches. It didn't look comfortable at all, and hiding like that isn't its normal behavior. Today I've been turning the filter on and off in incremental periods to get it used to the current, but letting the frog rest from time to time. It seems to be getting accustomed to the current quickly, so that's a big win. Hopefully it will get used to it being on 24/7 in one or two days. I just don't want it to die from exhaustion or stress.

The test kit came in and I got no ammonia or nitrites, but I did get around 40ppm nitrate, which is a bit on the high side. Made an emergency 30% water change (usually I only do it on Sundays) and hopefully everything will be okay for now.

MacZ what you said got me very concerned, but a little bit confused. Both the Oto and FF have grown about half an inch since I got them. Can they be growing and starving at the same time? I'll try to snap better pictures soon, but for now I dropped in another piece of zucchini, for safe measure.

So yeah, I'm definitely overstocked but I think I can keep this under control for a month or two. I'm looking into getting a custom made 20gal that's wide and low, so that the frogs are comfortable. Maybe 30gal is better? I'll assess my space and funds and I'll let you guys know. I realize now that it must be heated, obviously.

If possible I'd like to keep the same variety that I already have, but since most of them are schooling or at least social species I'll have to up the quantity. Let's move onto that, assuming I'll have 20gal to work with.

3 ADFs
6 Otos
5 Kuhlis
4 Flying Foxes

With that amount of herbivores I'll have to start cultivating algae, as Noroomforshoe so cleverly suggested. The same friend who gave me the duckweed identified the rightmost plant as a Green Foxtail, which (and I can attest to it) grows like crazy. Perhaps I can cut pieces off it once they're covered in algae and drop them into the main aquarium.

So yeah, the move is definitely happening soon. Please let me know if I'm making the same mistakes with this second try!

 

In that case the pictures are really not the best.

I don't know about ADFs, but I can tell you that flying foxes grow so big it would be pushing limits to keep even one in a 20gallon. Wouldn't keep them in less than a 50.

Problem with Otos is in general: They come mostly as wild-caughts, often starved and parasite ridden. Supplements like veggies and tablets take weeks for many of them to recognize as food. So 6 in a non-established, new 20 gallon will likely fail, as they won't find enough food in the form of algae/aufwuchs until they check the supplements. Usually you can expect 50% losses under those circumstances, if you hit a perticular bad batch even up to 100% losses within the first few weeks. Would really think about that plan again.

I would wait at least 6 months before adding Otos and in a 20 I wouldn't go higher than 6 individuals. A 30 would be nice for them, still would need it's time to establish. Then you could go as high as 10 specimen if you don't add any more flying foxes.

 

So I've been reading up on flying foxes and there's a general confusion between them and Siamese Algae Eaters. I think I got the latter, but I'm not sure. Here's better pictures of him and the Oto.







For the Otos, I was surprised with how well the one I already have has been doing. I think I may introduce them one by one or in groups of two once the new tank is set up. Still, I plan on cycling the new tank before moving my current stock, and then add the new fish in small batches.

If, as I suspect, I have a SAE instead of a Flying Fox, how much does that change things? I know they're schooling too, but I don't know about the quantity and size of the tank.

 

Ouh, looks like you got a young SAE there. They definitely hit the 15cm at one point and they are fast and need space. Neighbour has one in a 350liter tank about 4 feet long and the tank is too small.

The Oto looks ok, not as good as it could and should but it could be in worse shape.

This how a healthy Oto looks in profile. You see the belly? That's still not enough. Sadly this one contracted parasites from another less sturdyone and died in December 2019. Since January they are extinct in my tank, I maybe get some one day when I can get outside again and hitch a ride with a friend to a certain fish store that has tankbreds. For this year there is no further try to keep them scheduled.

 

I can't add much to the above aside that what you at first thought was a flying fox DOES look like a SAE to me, but I don't know much about their care, so I can't comment on that. However, I can help with some plant ID and the filter situation.

The plant in the back right looks like hornwort, and the one in the back left looks like moneywort (looks almost identical to mine). I've heard hornwort can be a real pain, as it grows lightning fast and may drop it's needles everywhere, so you may want to consider taking that out before it gets to be too much.

As for the filter, you can take a part of a plastic water bottle, cut a slit in it, and put it over the outflow to ease the current. I've done this with bettas for years and it's always worked for me, as long as it fits right. I can provide a picture if needed.

Good luck figuring things out, and remember we've all made mistakes. As long as you try to fix it, you're doing alright!

 

I suggest you return the fox/SAE You don't have room for six 6 inch fish.
You made up some numbers =
6 Otos
5 Kuhlis
4 Flying Foxes
but It doesn't work that way.
You need a bare minimum of 6 to have one school. While most fish thrive in larger then minimum conditions.
six 6 inch fat and very active fish - foxes or Siameseshould really have a 48 inch long tank, "40 gallon breeder or 55+" and they will out-compete the tiny passive natured otos for food. and they would likely starve out the frogs.

The kuhlies will not act completely "normal" unless you keep about 9+ but 6 is ok.

You are right about the frogs become exhausted in the current. they can also get exhausted in tall tank. You can create a ledge that they can climb, look for DIY videos on youtube. But if you continue to keep all bottom feeding fish, you could keep a half filled tank. Adjustments may need to be made for the filter, I'm not sure.

Get the new tank cycled, and get some algae growing maybe in the window, on rocks, plants or driftwood like you said. The new ottos may not adjust as well as the first one. These fish are yanked out of a river were they are in a school of maybe 500, they eat algae and they know nothing about prepared foods

 

Thanks for the help everybody - I feel like I've figured out more in these past two days than the rest of the month I've had this tiny tank.

I suggest you return the fox/SAE You don't have room for six 6 inch fish.

six 6 inch fat and very active fish - foxes or Siamese should really have a 48 inch long tank, "40 gallon breeder or 55+" and they will out-compete the tiny passive natured otos for food. and they would likely starve out the frogs.

I've grown attached to the Siamese because it's a busybody, always going around and scrubbing the plants in an otherwise relatively calm tank. If you think it won't fare well by itself in the new thank (which I understand is still on the small side for it) then I guess returning it is for the best.

In place of the SAE, do you have any suggestions for other active and eye-catching fish that could fit with the rest of my stock?

 

I understand the appeal of the active nosey fish, but The SAE needs a minimum of 48 inches to thrive.
what size tank do you think you will upgrade to? Do you think you will be able to create a hill for the frogs to climb?
Are you interested in top or middle dwelling species or are you thinking to continue with only bottom dwellers?

 

Ideally I'd upgrade to a 30gal, but for sure I won't go below 20. I know a glassmaker/glassworker who has a reputation for fish tanks in my area, so I'll place a custom order with him soon, once I get an estimate of the price. I haven't done the math, but I want it to be no more than 16 inches deep. My current tank is that tall, and the frog seems to be managing alright.

I also want to make a sort of cave system for both the frogs and loaches to enjoy by stacking smooth rocks against each other (I already have a smaller version of what I have in mind in my current tank).

Since it looks like I'll be saying goodbye to the SAE, I'm interested in replacing it with one (if possible) or several active, interesting middle or top dwellers. A dwarf gourami looks like an interesting option, would it work? Zebra danios have also caught my attention, but I had some in my very first aquarium and I don't remember them being very active. Is that their usual behavior, or just a symptom of the obviously subpar conditions in which my naive 2008 self kept them?

 

In the below 50gallon-range a 30 gallon custom should not make much prize difference to a 20 gallon, so go as big as possible.

With the caves... I don't know. Frogs still need atmospheric air and you read often they get stuck somewhere and drown. Make sure they find their way out again easy enough.

Dwarf gouramis are aggressive (so just get one) and overbred, meaning susceptible to diseases. Be cautious with your source and don't let yourself get talked into getting more of them.
Zebra danios are usually quite active, but there are several problems in your planned setup: They tend to jump and they like their water a bit cooler than the rest. Especially the jumping can be a problem in a relatively shallow tank and a custom tank rarely has a good lid.

You want something more active in the upper mids I'd take a look into tetras.

 

If you're going to have one made, I love the footprint of 30 long. It still isn't big enough for your SAE, but it does give you the footprint of a much bigger tank.

As far as active fish that can school easily in a 30, I'd take a look at Corydoras. They're playful, peaceful, and have a lot of personality.

 

If you're going to have one made, I love the footprint of 30 long. It still isn't big enough for your SAE, but it does give you the footprint of a much bigger tank.

As far as active fish that can school easily in a 30, I'd take a look at Corydoras. They're playful, peaceful, and have a lot of personality.

OP is looking for Mid- to Upper level fish, also loaches are already taking the bottom dweller role and SAE is already out of the picture.

 

This is going to sound contradictory but I feel like there should be a bit of a voice of dissent here. I feel some of the advice you have been given is too "idealistic".
First of all, it's nonsense that kuhlI would grow sick and weak if you keep them below 80F. There are barely waters in the world, especially shallow ones that these loaches inhabit, that stay 82F or above in winter. Plenty of advice for keeping them has 77-78F as minimum comfortable temperature and that would be fine.
Second, though it is ideal to keep many of these fish in groups, it really isn't a life-or-death requirement for most. For kuhlI it seems to be quite essential for normal behaviour to have 4 or more, but for the others eh. It's better to have more otos but buying new ones you risk 1. introducing disease as they wild caught; 2. buying more than the biofilm in the tank provides food for, leading them all to starve. It would be better, in conclusion, to hold off on buying more otos until your new tank (20 or w/e) has been running for several months. And when you do, quarantine the otos you get for 2-3 weeks and feed them with algae-grown rocks that you switch out with a glass jar in a sunny windowsill or something similar every day. It would be a waste to have 6 dead otos instead of one living one, that'd be my two cents.
Also I don't think your oto looks thin or wasted at all, but maybe that's the angle of the shots? I don't see any reason to be worried but growing some additional algae for it may be good anyhow.
Third, the ADF would feel better with companions, but they definitely don't need 5 gallons each. I'd say rather the minimum is 5 gallons for keeping a pair, then every 2-3 gallons for an additional one. You can definitely keep a group of 5 or 6 individuals in a 10. Not that you'd necessarily want to, just pointing it out. Do keep in mind that stocking is always additional with other inhabitants, and doesn't work 'per species;.
Fourth, something that you haven't been warned about - ADFs can have serious trouble getting enough food in a community tank with fast fish (like your bottom-dwelling kuhlI and the SAE) because they are very slow at finding food. They also don't get any nutrition from vegetable foods. Make sure it gets to eat meaty foods in peace. ADFs cannot live off fish flakes as far as I know, they need some frozen or live foods mixed in their diet if not as main staple, possibly you can feed them fish food meant for predatory fish if they do actually eat it. Or get frog bites/pellets.
Your ADF looked very thin in the picture, can you snap some more shots? They should have noticeable rounding of their belly after every meal or they aren't getting enough. Not as in 'look like they explode', but you should be able to see a difference.

As for a new centerpiece, I agree that a Dwarf is not a good choice. Have you taken a look at Honey Gourami? In a 20 you could get a pair or trio, they are pretty, peaceful fish that don't grow very large.

P.S. with this heavy stocking (as you can see in nitrate spike) I would do two water changes a week rather than one.

 

Thanks PascalKrypt, everyone has given me great advice so far, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense as well. I love having several opinions to try and find a middle ground that works best for me.

I've got my measurements all wrong because I'm used to the metric system. My current micro tank is about 8 inches tall.

For my new tank I'm thinking 24in wide, 16in long and 12in tall. That puts it in 20 gallons flat of capacity. I'd go for something bigger but now that I actually measured my place I realized that's all the free space I have at the moment.

The new plans for stock are:

3 ADF
5 Kuhlis
4 Oto

It's gonna be planted as similar as possible to the current tank.

I'd like to add another mid/top species, preferably something that doesn't require large groups to avoid overstocking again. I'll look into it once the new tank is set in place and being cycled.

Here's some more pics of my frog from a more flattering angle:







It's still barely an inch and a half long. For now I feed it every other day, alternating between flakes and betta pellets. This frog in particular is an efficient hunter and I've had no trouble at all getting it to eat. I got a call from the aquarium that they're receiving live brine shrimp tomorrow so I'll get him some of that, and I also ordered frog bites online last week. Should be here soon. I'm not concerned about variety, but if you think I should feed it more/more often, please let me know.

 

Grab a flat of frozen bloodworms too. Make sure you see them eat.

So, for stalking, you could get 3-5 same sex platties. They do best in a group of 3+ but are not schoolers. And they have possibly the most color of any tropical fish available. You can get all different colors, or all the same, they don't care.
1male and 2 -3 female American flag fish could work. though some people have reported aggression with them. Mine are peacfull. I here one trick is to keep them fed, and I only feed once a day, but they get a variety. My male has gorgeos breeding color even without dark substrate.

3+ guppies could also work.

Just a tip - you can use pvc pipe to make tunnles /caves for the fish.

 

Grab a flat of frozen bloodworms too. Make sure you see them eat.

So, for stalking, you could get 3-5 same sex platties. They do best in a group of 3+ but are not schoolers. And they have possibly the most color of any tropical fish available. You can get all different colors, or all the same, they don't care.
1male and 2 -3 female American flag fish could work. though some people have reported aggression with them. Mine are peacfull. I here one trick is to keep them fed, and I only feed once a day, but they get a variety. My male has gorgeos breeding color even without dark substrate.

3+ guppies could also work.

Just a tip - you can use pvc pipe to make tunnles /caves for the fish.

Platies in a 20 gallon? I don't know. They have quite some bioload and grow bigger than one might think. And if same sex, only males. Though like mollies especially platies are notoriously miss-sexed by store employees.

For the other lifebearers: The OP doesn't want to risk overstocking, they all are a guarantee to overstock a 20 gallon withing 6 months if one doesn't buy male-only groups.

 

I really would consider just getting a pair of honeys. Small fish, beautiful colours (there's a wildcolour in my current avatar). Quiet fish, lots of curiosity but not at all hyperactive, low bioload, very peaceful.

That ADF looks fine actually, so whatever you are doing keep it up
Sounds like a plan!