New Tank Cycle Stuck? Confusing Tests

HI all. We are 5 weeks in to a fish-in new tank cycle. Today we discovered a deceased molly. I did a test with the tetra strips and got no amonia, no nitrate or nitrites. Thought that was very odd and did one wi5h the master test kit and it shows very low ammonia and no nitrates.

I have been following seachem’s schedule of starting off with stability for 7 days and thendosing prime every other day. Ammonia had been climbing and nitrates just barely starting to show up.3 days ago I did a 25% water change because we are getting a lot of brown algae and I wanted to clean.

I don't understand why I'm not testing amonia? I understood that the prime would bind it but it would still show up on tests. We never had a nitrate spike, they only just began to show up. No nitrites at any point. The remaining mollies and platties are happy (6 total in a 29gal tank). The one that passed never showed signs of distress.

What do I do now?

 

As you already know. You really should be seeing some nitrates by now. Are you following the instructions exactly. It is important to really shake the #2 bottle well. If not used for a while it helps to actually tap the bottle against a hard surface break up any crystals that may have settled to make sure it is mixed well. It is also important to shake the tube for a full minute before starting the 5 minute waiting time.

It isn't unusual to miss of never see a nitrite spike when using bottled bacteria so if I were you I wouldn't be overly concerned about not seeing them now.

How often are you doing water changes? How much are you changing out each time? The best thing you can be doing for your water pets is keeping their water fresh and clean. water can look clean even when it isn't so water changes are very important.

 

I am following the seachem instructions exactly. One dose every other day of prime. Their instructions do not include any water changes during the 30 day cycle. I have done water changes anywhere from every other day to every several days. Since their instructions don't specify water changes I wasn't sure what schedule to follow. The fish have been very happy since I started this (startd about two weeks into the new tank).

I did follow the test instructions exactly. This is the first use of the mster test kit so I didnt bang the #2 bottle but I did shake it vigorously for a whole minute. Also shook the tube for a whole minute.

The only other thing I see happening is that my ph is staying at 6.8 according to the test strip but total alkalinity seems to be slowly and steadily going down. Total alkalinity currently measures between 0 and 40 on the test strip.

Since I see no nitrites either (and never have) I'm not inclined to believe that the cycle is complete....how do I know?

 

I am following the seachem instructions exactly. One dose every other day of prime. Their instructions do not include any water changes during the 30 day cycle. I have done water changes anywhere from every other day to every several days. Since their instructions don't specify water changes I wasn't sure what schedule to follow. The fish have been very happy since I started this (startd about two weeks into the new tank).

I did follow the test instructions exactly. This is the first use of the mster test kit so I didnt bang the #2 bottle but I did shake it vigorously for a whole minute. Also shook the tube for a whole minute.

The only other thing I see happening is that my ph is staying at 6.8 according to the test strip but total alkalinity seems to be slowly and steadily going down. Total alkalinity currently measures between 0 and 40 on the test strip.

Since I see no nitrites either (and never have) I'm not inclined to believe that the cycle is complete....how do I know?

This is one of the many reasons I neither use nor recommend using bottled bacteria. When not using it we know exactly what to expect. When using it sometime we see a nitrite spike and sometimes we don't. Sometimes the bottled bacteria does what it claims to do but it seems more often than it not it doesn't.

The only way we can know for sure that the cycle is done is when we no longer see any ammonia or nitrites and we are seeing some nitrates.

You have done very good by doing the water changes. I really don't understand why a company that makes these products doesn't mention the importance of water changes.

When doing a fish in cycle it is best to keep the ammonia/nitrites below a combined total of 1. Personally I like to see them lower than that but if they can be kept that low with water changes the fish should not suffer.

I also highly recommend Seachem Prime as the primary water conditioner. Not only is it very concentrated so a little goes a long way but it also detoxes low amounts of ammonia so protects the fish from its damaging affects. I am pleased to hear that you have been using it.

At 5 weeks you should be cycled if the Stability did what it is supposed to do. I know the last time I did a fish in cycle it took a solid 6 weeks from a dry tank to fully cycled. No bottled bacteria was added.

A PH of 6.8 may slow the cycle a bit but shouldn't stall it. Is this a planted tank? If so the plants may be the reason for low to no nitrates. Well that along with the frequent water changes.

It sounds to me like you have been doing a good job. Water changes and time should finally get this tank cycled. Just look for 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and some nitrates. Personally I wouldn't be too stressed over not seeing nitrates as long as the ammonia stays at 0.

No nitrates is not going to affect the fish. Ammonia will.

 

The fact that you are seeing some ammonia and no nitrites or nitrates makes me think you tank is still in the ammonia phase. But that does seem odd considering you're 5 weeks in.

Your pH level shouldn't be slowing you down very much at all.

Best I can advise is now that you have the API kit, keep an eye on your parameters. If the ammonia zeros out and your nitrites stay a 0ppm, I would assume the tank is cycled

 

It is not a planted tank. Going to get some plants soon but for now just artificial and te brown algae. Ill keep dosing the prime and do the tests again daily for the next little bit. Ill be sure to extra agitate the #2 bottle. Thanks for the input.

 

Todays test results (extra focus on exact instruction following and banging #2 nitrate bottle on table)
.25ppm amonia
O nitrite
O nitrate.

Not sure where to go from here. Want to add some neon tetras but not until the tank is cycled.

 

Yes, you definitely want to wait until the tank is cycled before adding the neon tetras

 

I agree with jdhef I wouldn't add neon tetras until your cycle is complete and well established. Once upon a time neons were hardy little fish but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It seems they have been over bred to the point of no longer being strong and healthy.

They are beautiful little fish and if I could I would have a huge school of them. Problem is each time I try to add more to my tank I lose some of the new ones and often some of the originals too. I have decided to just let the 5 big healthy ones I have now live out their life. Hopefully I will still have them for a while but they are all at least 3 years old now.

 

Ok. So if we assume I'm I the ammonia phase still, why so low? Even with prime shouldnt the bound ammonia still make the test read high?

 

Ok. So if we assume I'm I the ammonia phase still, why so low? Even with prime shouldnt the bound ammonia still make the test read high?

I wish I did but I have to admit that I don't know why you aren't seeing any nitrates. Yes, your ammonia would be high if there was no bacteria working in there and if it was high it would show up in the test even after adding Prime. Your water changes could be keeping them low but I can't say for sure that is what is happening.

 

But I don't stop the water changes, right? Keep changing and hope one day before christmas I see some nitrates?

 

But I don't stop the water changes, right? Keep changing and hope one day before christmas I see some nitrates?

Right. Do your water changes if the ammonia goes up close to 1. If it doesn't go up that high I think 50% once a week will be enough. Add Prime every 48 hours or so and also with each water change.

 

Gone for 3 days ovr the weekend. Ran a test today, my total alkalinity continues slowly down. No nitrates no nitrites here is amonia. Last water change was 5 days ago. I can't decide if this is .25 or none. I'm now 6.5 weeks into the cycle. Fish are happy I have never measured nitrates or nitrites of any significant amount (had some minimal nitrate readings twiceon tst strips.

I'm not sure what to think, am I cycled? Going nowhere?

Re-reading some general guides I'm wondering if ive done too many water changes and haven't really even started my cycle?
I have 6 (had 7) fish inand have done 20-35% changes as often as every other day when fish looked stressed and now more like every several days I change 20-25%. Early on we lost a handful of fish, but nothing really since. The most recent loss was confusing. Nobody was stressed, she just didnt make it over night.

Feeling more lost.

 

I have to think this cycle is done. If it wasn't you would be seeing some ammonia after 5 days of no water changes.

Re-reading some general guides I'm wondering if ive done too many water changes and haven't really even started my cycle?
I have 6 (had 7) fish inand have done 20-35% changes as often as every other day when fish looked stressed and now more like every several days I change 20-25%. Early on we lost a handful of fish, but nothing really since. The most recent loss was confusing. Nobody was stressed, she just didnt make it over night.

Feeling more lost.

When I got back into fish keeping after being out of it for 6 years I had to start from scratch. I did a fish in cycle with more fish than most folks would be comfortable cycling with. I was doing water changes every other day (no less than 30% each time) and once nitrites showed up I was doing them daily. It took a solid 6 weeks to go from dry to fully cycled.

All this to say, No, doing all the water changes hasn't stopped the cycle in this tank. We say a cycle is done when you no longer see ammonia or nitrites and see some nitrates. I have to think your cycle is done and I may have to rethink what to expect in a fully cycled tank. If it wasn't you would be seeing ammonia building up.

I admit I don't know why you aren't seeing any nitrates. I don't know that it is something to be concerned about though. It is possible that you will never see them. It will be a first for me but there is a first time for every thing.

You say your alkalinity is going down. Does that mean your PH is going down? If so, how low is it?

 

Re-reading some general guides I'm wondering if ive done too many water changes and haven't really even started my cycle?
I have 6 (had 7) fish inand have done 20-35% changes as often as every other day when fish looked stressed and now more like every several days I change 20-25%. Early on we lost a handful of fish, but nothing really since. The most recent loss was confusing. Nobody was stressed, she just didnt make it over night.

Feeling more lost.

IMO - water changes, even every day or other day, are fine (I’m OCD and do a 25-30% every other day). The majority of your BB are on the glass, substrate and filter medias (sponges, cartridge, ceramic, decorations, etc.).
How many living plants do you have in the tank?

 

You say your alkalinity is going down. Does that mean your PH is going down? If so, how low is it?

On the tetra test strips there is total alkalinity and ph
Ph has been 6.8 but it is starting to look slightly under. Totak alkalinity KH ppm has gone from 80 to 40 to now somewhere between 0 and 40....this is odd to me because I don't understand how total alkalinity isn't directly related to ph which has been pretty stable. Maybe all of the prime effects that, I don't know. Ive been tempted to treat a little to get it back closer to 7.



Followup question. If I'm cycled and even if I'm not, what filter maintenance should I be thinking about at this point? I have the basic waterfall aqueon kind that came with the tank. Its been almost two months, do I change/rinse carbon at this point?

How many living plants do you have in the tank?

Zero, just some brown algae and the starts of some green. I'm going to get some java fern as soon as anywhere local has it. I want to add neon tetra and conga tetra next and want some real plants to hide in.

Plants pictured are artificial.

 

Newbie here, so discount my comments appropriately, but I'm wondering if you have a relatively small bio-load for your 29 gallon tank. If your eco system is producing relatively small amounts of ammonia, then it will take a while to build up nitrates. If you have been doing water changes on top of that, you may not be accumulating measurable nitrates even if you have enough BB to process the ammonia your fish are generating.

I'm in a similar situation with a new tank (3 GloFish for 29 gallons -- I do have a couple of live plants though). I have not really seen nitrates above 5-10 ppm. Since my ammonia and nitrites are ok (0-0.25 ppm and 0, respectively) and my fish are staying alive, I think I'm ok with it. I'm working up to more fish and less frequent water changes.

 

Newbie here, so discount my comments appropriately, but I'm wondering if you have a relatively small bio-load for your 29 gallon tank. If your eco system is producing relatively small amounts of ammonia, then it will take a while to build up nitrates. If you have been doing water changes on top of that, you may not be accumulating measurable nitrates even if you have enough BB to process the ammonia your fish are generating.

I'm in a similar situation with a new tank (3 GloFish for 29 gallons -- I do have a couple of live plants though). I have not really seen nitrates above 5-10 ppm. Since my ammonia and nitrites are ok (0-0.25 ppm and 0, respectively) and my fish are staying alive, I think I'm ok with it. I'm working up to more fish and less frequent water changes.

I suppose that is possible. I have had 6-8 mollies/platties throughout in 29 gal. No live plants. They get two very small feedings virtually every day. That ougt to be enoung in my untrained thinking.

 

On the tetra test strips there is total alkalinity and ph
Ph has been 6.8 but it is starting to look slightly under. Totak alkalinity KH ppm has gone from 80 to 40 to now somewhere between 0 and 40....this is odd to me because I don't understand how total alkalinity isn't directly related to ph which has been pretty stable. Maybe all of the prime effects that, I don't know. Ive been tempted to treat a little to get it back closer to 7.

This is something I really know nothing about so can't comment.

Followup question. If I'm cycled and even if I'm not, what filter maintenance should I be thinking about at this point? I have the basic waterfall aqueon kind that came with the tank. Its been almost two months, do I change/rinse carbon at this point?

Check it each time you do your weekly water change. Rinse in tank water if it is getting a buildup of waste on it. I no longer use any carbon in my tanks since it really isn't necessary.

If this filter uses cartridges with the carbon built in it will eventually (usually sooner rather than later) start breaking down and will clog up the cartridge. When that happens the flow of water going through it will slow down and it will be time to replace it. Instead of just tossing it cut the fiber off and toss the carbon and the plastic frame. Put that piece of fiber in the filter with the new cartridge.

I suppose that is possible. I have had 6-8 mollies/platties throughout in 29 gal. No live plants. They get two very small feedings virtually every day. That ougt to be enoung in my untrained thinking.

That is a low bio-load but still big enough to produce ammonia that should end up nitrates. The water changes will have kept them low but I wouldn't think non-existent.