New shrimps, about half of them go upside down

redtester

I bought some new shrimps, 8 of them. All are neocaridinas, i drip acclimated for like 5 hours, 1 drip per 2 seconds, until the total water was more than 4x the original water the shrimps came in and used a net then released them in my aquarium. This morning 4 were upside down and slowly dying. Note, they are not dead and still move around

Now I do have quite high nitrate and nitrite readings (~100 nitrate and ~20 nitrite, I test using the 7 in 1 test strip) but I am very frustrated because whatever I do these readings dont go down. I checked my water source already, its a RO water that has 0 readings. I do very frequent water change like 25-30% every 2-3 days to attempt to change it but it just doesnt go down. I have a filter, I dont change or clean it all the time and it has 2 layers of sponge and a set of 12 different types media filter stones.

Also note this is a quite heavily planted tank too.
That said, I already have 5 shrimps inside this tank before, and they seem quite healthy, thus why I dont really think much about it.

Also I have a slightly acidic ph, i tried to increase the ph by adding crushed egg shells but it hasnt really worked.

Tank size, around 25x25x25cm + probably 1/3 of that tank's water in the pipes and filter system. Tank is about 5 weeks old
okay so;
1. What should I do? Can I save the shrimps? Do i seperate them in a temporary container with the aquarium water infusedwith RO water?
 

richiep

Let's start with your water, if you use ro water it will start life out at zero across the board and a ph 7
Nitrites are a killer to shrimp so while they show don't add anymore shrimp, nitraits 100 well that's off the scale
What minerals are you using with ro water
We need a lot more information, can you fill the template below please,this will stop loads of questions and make it easy for us all to work out what's going on

Water Parameters

Please give as many as possible
PH
GH
KH
Nitrites
Nitrates
Ammonia
Copper
TDS
Temperature

Your Aquarium

Size?
How long has this tank been set up?
Are there any other inhabitants?
What is your water change schedule and%?
What do you feed and how often?
Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc)
Filtration?
Substrate?

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)

How long has the invert been in the tank?
How did you acclimate them?

Please explain your problem with as much information as possible and include pictures if you can.
 
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redtester

Water Parameters

Please give as many as possible
PH 6.2-6.8
GH 125-250 (nearer to 250)
KH
Nitrites 10-20
Nitrates 50-100
Ammonia
Copper
TDS
Temperature 23 C-26C

Your Aquarium

Size? 26x26x26
How long has this tank been set up? 1 month
Are there any other inhabitants? 3 kuhli loach and some neocaridina
What is your water change schedule and%? more than once a week, 25-30%
What do you feed and how often? some shrimp micro wafers, once every 2 days, only like 8 bits (very small)
Do you add any chemicals? (water conditioner, fertiliser,meds etc) micro and macro nutrients for plants, like 8 drops, every day, criss cross
Filtration? 2 layers of sponge with 12 different kinds of filtration rock medium (bio-balls, far infrared bacteria houses, ceramic rings, etc)
Substrate? soft gravel

Introduction to the Tank (if applicable)
planted tank with 2 pieces of seiryu stone and a driftwood
plants: couple of duckweed and another floating plant, 8 stalks of cabomba caroliniana and the red variant, there is hanging moss and some other mosses on the ground, and 6 stalks of amazon sword

How long has the invert been in the tank? 10 hours
How did you acclimate them? drip acclimation for 5 hours, 1 drop/2 seconds

Please explain your problem with as much information as possible and include pictures if you can.
They are still moving, if possible i want to ensure that they can live again, also any idea why my tank water is like, green? I thought it was because of the driftwood's tannin. I do put in some egg shells because they are calcium carbonate to balance the water ph closer to 7.5 plus calcium for shrimp molts
maybe i should remove the driftwood?
 

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richiep

With the water readings you've got and the fact it's only been running a month id say its not cycled yet
The other id query is the micro macro nutrients id like to know what it's made up of
Ill tag mattgirl to assess the cycle as a second opinion
 
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redtester

With the water readings you've got and the fact it's only been running a month id say its not cycled yet
The other id query is the micro macro nutrients id like to know what it's made up of
Ill tag mattgirl to assess the cycle as a second opinion
Yeah, you know, 3 days after i planted my tank fully, i placed in some shrimps, kuhli loach and 3 snails (yeah beginners mistake right, was impatient and all), but surprisingly, it went really well for a week or so. I did a massive mistake and basically overdosed on CO2, all of them save for 3 shrimps died and it feels as if the tank were never balanced ever again after that incident lol darn man the regrets.

Oh and btw, what do i do for the shrimps? For now, it seems like the ones that were upside down actually balanced themselves up, they still havent moved much but they look less dying than they were
 
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richiep

If you have co2 running now turn it off it causes ph swings which will kill shrimp.
As you stand you have to bite the bullet unless you have a mature tank they can be moved into
Post a picture of the ingredients of the nutrients you're adding
We all learn by our mistakes so you're not the first
 
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redtester

If you have co2 running now turn it off it causes ph swings which will kill shrimp.
As you stand you have to bite the bullet unless you have a mature tank they can be moved into
Post a picture of the ingredients of the nutrients you're adding
We all learn by our mistakes so you're not the first
Oh no i dont have co2 systems, it was just a supplementary liquid co2 i used to try to make my plants thrive and i freaking killed everything, and sadly i dont have any mature tank to move into with me. Oh also, i just checked it doesnt have ingridients listed. Let me try to search because it is a local product

I just checked, Macro is the "nutrients plants need in a huge quantity" namely Nitrogen Phospate Potassium, Carbon HydrogenOxygen, S Ca Mg
While micro is the Fe, Cu, B, Mn, Mo, Zn
 
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richiep

Chances are its fine anyway its just always best to check when shrimp are concerned, the main one would be a copper
Keep doing your water changes but keep the temperature the same as the tank and change over slowly , hopefully your tank will start to settle down but there's no guarantee all the shrimp will live
 
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redtester

Chances are its fine anyway its just always best to check when shrimp are concerned, the main one would be a copper
Keep doing your water changes but keep the temperature the same as the tank and change over slowly , hopefully your tank will start to settle down but there's no guarantee all the shrimp will live
So, when can I say the tank is "cycled"? 2 weeks to 2 months? does it take longer in smaller tanks? I thought by having live start it would make it faster, but apparently it takes so long doesn't it
 
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richiep

When it becomes stable that's a clear week of no Ammonia, no nitrits and nitraits down to 20 and a stable ph, others may look at it differently
 
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mattgirl

With the water readings you've got and the fact it's only been running a month id say its not cycled yet
The other id query is the micro macro nutrients id like to know what it's made up of
Ill tag mattgirl to assess the cycle as a second opinion
I have to think you are right. The numbers I am seeing tell me either this tank isn't cycled or the tests are not telling us the truth. I am thinking the testing method is test strips since we don't have an ammonia reading and I feel we are not getting accurate numbers.

The very first thing I would do for this tank is stop adding anything in the way of ferts. They are adding to the nitrate level. Is there a specific reason for using RO water in this tiny tank? Is your normal tap water unacceptable?

I have never found egg shells helping to raise and stabilize the pH. If needed I do recommend crushed coral though. I do add crushed eggs shells to my shrimp bowl and to tanks with snails as they do help add calcium.

If both nitrites and nitrates are as high as what the tests are telling us then we need to do some water changes. Since we are dealing with shrimp we can't just pull most of the water out and replace it with fresh like we could if this was just a fish tank.

First things first. We need to make sure your tests are telling you the truth so I will recommend you get an API Master Freshwater Test Kit. As long as we follow the instructions these tests are as accurate as we need them to be. Tests in the kit include pH (both high and normal), ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Accurate readings of these numbers will help me help you.
 
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redtester

I have to think you are right. The numbers I am seeing tell me either this tank isn't cycled or the tests are not telling us the truth. I am thinking the testing method is test strips since we don't have an ammonia reading and I feel we are not getting accurate numbers.

The very first thing I would do for this tank is stop adding anything in the way of ferts. They are adding to the nitrate level. Is there a specific reason for using RO water in this tiny tank? Is your normal tap water unacceptable?

I have never found egg shells helping to raise and stabilize the pH. If needed I do recommend crushed coral though. I do add crushed eggs shells to my shrimp bowl and to tanks with snails as they do help add calcium.

If both nitrites and nitrates are as high as what the tests are telling us then we need to do some water changes. Since we are dealing with shrimp we can't just pull most of the water out and replace it with fresh like we could if this was just a fish tank.

First things first. We need to make sure your tests are telling you the truth so I will recommend you get an API Master Freshwater Test Kit. As long as we follow the instructions these tests are as accurate as we need them to be. Tests in the kit include pH (both high and normal), ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Accurate readings of these numbers will help me help you.
It is a test strip, I dip for 1 sec and wait for 60 secs like instructed. Maybe it isnt the most accurate, but well its the best i have right now. I use RO water because I thought its cleaner than tap, although I just checked my tap water and the parameters are fine, no chlorine since we cant drink our tap water here, I think its all well water. I figure I just dont want parasites and harmful bacteria entering the tank. I'll stop using the ferts for now thanks.
 
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mattgirl

I have never used RO water so don't know what has to be added. The one thing I do know is if you are seeing nitrites in this tank it isn't cycled. Without an ammonia reading we can't know if there is any ammonia in the tank.

Normally I can make recommendations but this is the first time I've had to try to deal with an uncycled tank with shrimp in it. I fear my normal recommendations for doing a fish in cycle will end up killing your shrimp. It is going to take some big water changes to get both nitrites and nitrates down. Shrimp don't handle change well so I am afraid to make any recommendations.

The best advice i can give in this case is pull out half the water and drip fresh water back in. Do this a couple of times a day until nitrites drop to zero and nitrates are down to no more than about 5 or 10ppm. If your tap water test alright then you may want to consider using it. If you can drink your well water I have to think it is safe for your fish tank.

Where are you located in the world? I don't need a state or town. Just country will be close enough.
 
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JettsPapa

It is a test strip, I dip for 1 sec and wait for 60 secs like instructed. Maybe it isnt the most accurate, but well its the best i have right now. I use RO water because I thought its cleaner than tap, although I just checked my tap water and the parameters are fine, no chlorine since we cant drink our tap water here, I think its all well water. I figure I just dont want parasites and harmful bacteria entering the tank. I'll stop using the ferts for now thanks.

I've been drinking well water for over 50 years, and I'm not dead yet. What is in yours that it isn't safe to drink?
 
Upvote 0

redtester

I have never used RO water so don't know what has to be added. The one thing I do know is if you are seeing nitrites in this tank it isn't cycled. Without an ammonia reading we can't know if there is any ammonia in the tank.

Normally I can make recommendations but this is the first time I've had to try to deal with an uncycled tank with shrimp in it. I fear my normal recommendations for doing a fish in cycle will end up killing your shrimp. It is going to take some big water changes to get both nitrites and nitrates down. Shrimp don't handle change well so I am afraid to make any recommendations.

The best advice i can give in this case is pull out half the water and drip fresh water back in. Do this a couple of times a day until nitrites drop to zero and nitrates are down to no more than about 5 or 10ppm. If your tap water test alright then you may want to consider using it. If you can drink your well water I have to think it is safe for your fish tank.

Where are you located in the world? I don't need a state or town. Just country will be close enough.
Yeah, I too am quite confused because I thought new tanks wouldnt be able to support and fauna, but my dad kept convincing me its fine and I give in and bought in some shrimps. The water back then was even still cloudy and no one died surprisingly. It was just that **** CO2 incident and now everytime I try to put in new shrimps they kept dying (the kuhlis were fine though, I put in 3 a week after the first 2 died at the CO2 overdose)

Do you recommend 50%? or just 25%/30%? I live in SEA, Indonesia, and no we can't drink our well water. We have to buy our drinkable waters and also i tested the tap water and it doesn't contain any chlorine so no dechlorinator is needed I think?
 
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richiep

People think that if their shrimp are safe aweek or two after they go in they should be fine but it doesn't work like that, chemicals in the tank can kill straight away or in a day or two but water parameters are a different, although it affects the shrimp almost immediately they won't die until the first moult after going in, this is also affected by what condition your shrimp are in,so if the shrimp are ready to moult they can have a forced moult and live because the shell was soft enough for that moult to happen, on the other hand if the shrimp as already mounted before they enter the tank they won't moult again but by the time they are due to moult the shell is so hard they have a faild moult, this is where you see the ring of death this is the inner body trying to push the old shell off and they can't, this results in the shrimp being crushed by its own shell
 
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mattgirl

Yeah, I too am quite confused because I thought new tanks wouldnt be able to support and fauna, but my dad kept convincing me its fine and I give in and bought in some shrimps. The water back then was even still cloudy and no one died surprisingly. It was just that **** CO2 incident and now everytime I try to put in new shrimps they kept dying (the kuhlis were fine though, I put in 3 a week after the first 2 died at the CO2 overdose)

Do you recommend 50%? or just 25%/30%? I live in SEA, Indonesia, and no we can't drink our well water. We have to buy our drinkable waters and also i tested the tap water and it doesn't contain any chlorine so no dechlorinator is needed I think?
Gotcha. Since I can't know the conditions of your tap water I can't recommend you switch over to it. I will recommend you start by changing out about 25% of it a couple of times a day. As I said you want to slowly drip the new water back in. Shrimp don't handle quick drastic changes in parameters well so we need to get both nitrites and nitrates down gradually.

I would like to think your test strips aren't telling us the whole story but we don't know that for sure. If they show the numbers going down with the water changes it might tell us they are fairly accurate.
 
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redtester

People think that if their shrimp are safe aweek or two after they go in they should be fine but it doesn't work like that, chemicals in the tank can kill straight away or in a day or two but water parameters are a different, although it affects the shrimp almost immediately they won't die until the first moult after going in, this is also affected by what condition your shrimp are in,so if the shrimp are ready to moult they can have a forced moult and live because the shell was soft enough for that moult to happen, on the other hand if the shrimp as already mounted before they enter the tank they won't moult again but by the time they are due to moult the shell is so hard they have a faild moult, this is where you see the ring of death this is the inner body trying to push the old shell off and they can't, this results in the shrimp being crushed by its own shell
Now, I also do think of it like that, so i kinda expected the first batch to have some deaths over a week or two, but theyve been living for 1 and a half month and they seem fine. So I take it, as long as they moult, its fine? can we tell when theyre ready to molt? because i never realized when they do it
Gotcha. Since I can't know the conditions of your tap water I can't recommend you switch over to it. I will recommend you start by changing out about 25% of it a couple of times a day. As I said you want to slowly drip the new water back in. Shrimp don't handle quick drastic changes in parameters well so we need to get both nitrites and nitrates down gradually.

I would like to think your test strips aren't telling us the whole story but we don't know that for sure. If they show the numbers going down with the water changes it might tell us they are fairly accurate.
a couple times a day? that wouldnt remove the beneficial denitrifying bacteria building up? Oh yeah I do use a small pipe of like 0.5cm to insert and take water out of the tank.

Alright, i'll keep an eye on the strips, although i do try to test them on the RO water and tap water to see if its actually just showing higher nitrates than is available but they seem to be correct on those 2. Sometimes its also hard to decide wether the pink coloration for nitrates and nitrites are closer to the lower end or higher, since they have such a huge gap of 50-100. Theyre all just pink!
 
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mattgirl

Now, I also do think of it like that, so i kinda expected the first batch to have some deaths over a week or two, but theyve been living for 1 and a half month and they seem fine. So I take it, as long as they moult, its fine? can we tell when theyre ready to molt? because i never realized when they do it

a couple times a day? that wouldnt remove the beneficial denitrifying bacteria building up? Oh yeah I do use a small pipe of like 0.5cm to insert and take water out of the tank.

Alright, i'll keep an eye on the strips, although i do try to test them on the RO water and tap water to see if its actually just showing higher nitrates than is available but they seem to be correct on those 2. Sometimes its also hard to decide wether the pink coloration for nitrates and nitrites are closer to the lower end or higher, since they have such a huge gap of 50-100. Theyre all just pink!
since the bacteria isn't free floating in the water, water changes aren't removing any. The bacteria is growing on your filter media and on all the surfaces in the tank.
 
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