New Platy Flat Belly And Hunched Back

SM1199

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Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gal.
How long has the tank been running? At least a year - been broken down and re-established multiple times during moves
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Not currently because summer keeps it warm naturally
What is the water temperature? Tank stays between 75-78 degrees - currently 75
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) 5 CPDs, 1 male betta, 1 platy, 1 nerite snail.

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Typically 1x a week.
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Generic dechlorinator.
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Just water, sand substrate.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API master test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? 1x daily
How much do you feed your fish? Enough for everyone to finish in a minute with plump bellies.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Hikari micro pellets
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Occasionally freeze-dried

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 5 days. I have had other fish and nerite for months.
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Today
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Flat belly, hunched back
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
Currently lightly clamping fins, slightly lethargic, but still eating.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
I bought this platy five days ago - I was planning on it for a while now, since I have had platies do a great job on algae cleanup and I had the extra filtration and bioload capacity to support at least a single platy. I know I am stupid for this - but I did not quarantine. I buy from one of the most reputable fish stores in the state, and have bought dozens of fish from them without any diseases, including livebearers. All platies in this tank and all fish in adjacent tanks looked very healthy, equivalent to first pic below, with not a single dead fish in any tank or even any acting or looking strange. Brought home, acclimated, no problems, everyone gets along. She ate on the first night and explored the tank.

First picture below is from yesterday night - still was fine. Second picture is from half an hour ago. I removed her immediately and put her in her own 2 gallon tank just for isolation. She is still eating, but her fins are lightly clamped during rest, her belly is flat (first time I have seen her like this), and she is less explorative. She is only angled upward in the picture because of the net - she is otherwise not orienting upright or staying at the surface or floor. I have seen her poop on several occasions since buying her - all has been normal, solid, food-colored. All other fish in the tank are just as fat and happy and energetic as ever. I have not done a water change since getting her or done anything else stressful in the tank. Water parameters just tested now. Tank is moderately planted.

I know this is a minor change and I may be overreacting, but I am most worried about fish TB. I know how common it can be, and I know symptoms can be vague and only present after a long time of infection. A healthy fish should not be losing weight this dramatically while still eating plenty. I want some more opinions about what it could or couldn't be. I have furan-2, levamisole, aquarium salt, and m. blue on hand.
Screenshot_20190907-212409_Snapchat.jpg
Screenshot_20190907-212545_Photos.jpg
 

CheshireKat

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Well, there's not much to go on. What other fish do you have? Could she have given birth and the fry eaten or sucked into filter?
 

Katie13

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You have a number of problems with your stock. I would guess that the Plath is being out-competed for food.
 

CheshireKat

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Katie13 said:
You have a number of problems with your stock. I would guess that the Plath is being out-competed for food.
Possibly, but overnight weight loss? OP also said "still eating," implying, to me, they've seen the fish eat.
 

Katie13

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CheshireKat said:
Possibly, but overnight weight loss? OP also said "still eating," implying, to me, they've seen the fish eat.
You can see a fish eat a bite or two, but that doesn’t mean that they are getting an adequate amount of food. There is no way that kind of deterioration would happen overnight either. Worms are a likely culprits, but there is no way the fish would change that drastically overnight.
 
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SM1199

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CheshireKat said:
Well, there's not much to go on. What other fish do you have? Could she have given birth and the fry eaten or sucked into filter?
I would have hoped the template would have given plenty to go on. As said in the template, I have 5 CPDs, 1 betta, 1 nerite, and 1 platy. She was not heavily gravid when I got her or since then, so I highly doubt that as a possibility.

Katie13 said:
You have a number of problems with your stock. I would guess that the Plath is being out-competed for food.
Platies, in my experience, have been the most vigorous eaters I've ever had. This one, not as much, but she still eats much more than the CPDs and betta, and this has not improved her condition. When I feed, the betta grabs a few pellets from one side, the platy grabs most of the remaining, and the ones that fall in between get picked up by the CPDs. Betta and CPDs are plump while the platy - who by far eats the most - is emaciated.
 
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SM1199

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Katie13 said:
You can see a fish eat a bite or two, but that doesn’t mean that they are getting an adequate amount of food. There is no way that kind of deterioration would happen overnight either. Worms are a likely culprits, but there is no way the fish would change that drastically overnight.
The photos I provided are honest representations of what she looked like last night versus what she looks like today. I am just as surprised as you are. You can tell in the first picture that she was not particularly plump to begin with, and now it is flat.

If worms are suspect I have levamisole I can treat with.
 

Katie13

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SM1199 said:
The photos I provided are honest representations of what she looked like last night versus what she looks like today. I am just as surprised as you are. You can tell in the first picture that she was not particularly plump to begin with, and now it is flat.

If worms are suspect I have levamisole I can treat with.
I don’t see much of a difference between the two pictures. I would quarantine and deworm though.
 

CheshireKat

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SM1199 said:
I would have hoped the template would have given plenty to go on
No, I meant about the fish's condition. You provide lots of information that rules out lots but doesn't provide much insight into what's wrong. Save for testing, there's not a way to really be definitive.

SM1199 said:
As said in the template, I have 5 CPDs, 1 betta, 1 nerite, and 1 platy
Yes, sorry, I forgot to look again. The betta or even the platy could've eaten fry.

SM1199 said:
She was not heavily gravid when I got her or since then, so I highly doubt that as a possibility.
I disagree. I've had fish that look barely different before and after giving birth. I personally wouldn't rule it out. They don't have to be stuffed to be pregnant, just like some women don't get huge.
 
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SM1199

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Katie13 said:
I don’t see much of a difference between the two pictures. I would quarantine and deworm though.
I'm confused by what you're saying. You said such a dramatic difference couldn't happen overnight, but now are saying you don't see much difference. I said the change is minor but present - most obvious to me is how, at first, her vent is rounded alongside her belly, but now looks angular due to her belly being flattened.

CheshireKat said:
I disagree. I've had fish that look barely different before and after giving birth. I personally wouldn't rule it out. They don't have to be stuffed to be pregnant, just like some women don't get huge.
I don't disagree about that, but regardless of whether or not she did, there must be something underlying. No platy should look flat or emaciated, even after giving birth.
 

Katie13

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Sorry, it’s late here, so I’m barely awake, but there is hardly any difference. I wouldn’t be too concerned.
 

CheshireKat

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SM1199 said:
I don't disagree about that, but regardless of whether or not she did, there must be something underlying. No platy should look flat or emaciated, even after giving birth.
Maybe the pictures just aren't showing us what you're seeing? Because I don't see such a huge difference to where I'd be majorly concerned. The best, easiest explanation for what looks to be a female livebearer to be thinner overnight would be that she gave birth. If it's thin or even underweight/malnourished to begin with, then after birth it would naturally be very thin.
If the fish is eating and pooping in healthy amounts, has no behavioral changes, nothing abnormal coming out of or attached to it and you don't see any weird things in the tank like parasites or eggs that might've been expelled from its body, I wouldn't treat for parasites and just monitor to the fish.

If, however, the fish continues to get thinner or develops other problems, I'd be concerned. But I personally, at this point, wouldn't treat with levamisol and would just try to fatten the fish up.

That said, I'm not a vet or anything and don't like to treat fish without having more of an idea of what's wrong.
 
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SM1199

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As someone who has owned many platies before, I have never seen this in any of my platies and definitely consider it concerning, even in its early stages. Even my females that were starved for a week while I was on vacation and had a batch of fry during that time did not look anything like this when I came back.

As shown in this picture of a normal healthy platy, the back is almost perfectly straight from the mouth to the cranial end of the dorsal fin.
Screen Shot 2019-09-08 at 4.20.16 PM.png

Here is my platy from this morning, with an obvious hunched, angular back between the mouth and dorsal fin. She is now also holding this slight upright position and is spitting food a few times before swallowing it. I've also never had a platy this lethargic, as she barely moves around the tank unless something makes her nervous - my previous platies would always be getting into trouble and test every single surface with their mouths 24/7.
20190908_095602.jpg

I'm 99% certain I've found the culprit, as it is especially seen in platies and the symptoms match exactly:
Curved spine, sunken belly disease – esp. livebearers

Seeing as there is no known cure, I will probably euthanize her if she hasn't improved at all by the end of the week.
 

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I know what a healthy platy looks like. I have... I don't even know how many right now because of the fry. I agree that the fish looks pretty thin and the belly looks a little weird. As I said, maybe she looks worse in person.
I don't know. The link you included doesn't satisfy nor convince me personally as I prefer more factual info than anecdotal but if there isn't any... Sigh. That's rough.
If it were my fish, I'd try a medicine or two before giving up, but obviously you have better insight in the fish than I do and it's up to you and how much you want to put into the fish. I don't think she'll improve on her own within a week in her state, but fish can be surprising.
 
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SM1199

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CheshireKat said:
I know what a healthy platy looks like. I have... I don't even know how many right now because of the fry. I agree that the fish looks pretty thin and the belly looks a little weird. As I said, maybe she looks worse in person.
I don't know. The link you included doesn't satisfy nor convince me personally as I prefer more factual info than anecdotal but if there isn't any... Sigh. That's rough.
If it were my fish, I'd try a medicine or two before giving up, but obviously you have better insight in the fish than I do and it's up to you and how much you want to put into the fish. I don't think she'll improve on her own within a week in her state, but fish can be surprising.
I did give her levamisole for 24 hours (I have never had a fish die on levamisole, so figured it was low risk) to rule out internal parasites and did not see anything expelled. Theoretically, she should improve to some degree in the next week if she did have internal parasites, though. I plan to try Furan-2 next to rule out at least some bacterial conditions. Beyond that... regardless of what condition she has, there isn't much literature or knowledge as to what it might be or what to treat with, so I personally do not see much purpose in going out and buying random medications hoping that they might have a slim chance of working. Especially if other people have tried various medications on some sort of condition showing the same symptoms with no luck. If her food-spitting turns into complete food avoidance and/or her lethargy turns into laying on her side or corkscrew swimming, there is certainly no quality of life left and I would rather euthanize than sustain her suffering and my anxiety.
 

CheshireKat

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Yes, it's up to you how far you want to go to try to help the fish. I'm not judging you or saying you're taking the wrong route. I didn't know you'd started or planned to do any treatments.
 
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SM1199

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Thought I'd give an update on this if anyone else comes across it and is wondering what happened or is going through something similar with their own fish.

After the levamisole, I also threw in some aquarium salt in her quarantine tank and (unfortunately) became so busy I had completely neglected her besides doing one water change 24 hours later to remove the salt. I didn't even look at her or feed her for three days... Thought for sure she would be way worse or dead when I got the chance to go look at her again. Amazingly - no more hunched back, no more sunken belly, even after no food for three days. I was baffled, but I'm not going to complain.

I still don't know what it was, because I never saw a single sign of camallanus, even though she was in a bare-bottom tank. I don't know if there was a different internal parasite that got wiped out with the levamisole or if she had an internal infection that got cleared out with the salt. Regardless, her belly is round again, her back is relatively straight, she's gobbling down food like a platy should, and she's much more energetic than she ever was, so it looks like we're back on track!
 
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SM1199

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Looks like a totally different fish! Just one week after those sickly pictures were taken. Easy to tell from the picture how much more active she is
Screenshot_20190915-184945_Photos.jpg
 

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Wow thanks so much for the update!! That is amazing! I’ll keep this in mind if I ever get another platy with this problem. I’m seeing a lot suffering from this in all the pet stores lately
 
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