New Platies In Quarantine eating white stuff (debris??)

Discussion in 'Platy' started by Jose, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone,
    I just got two new platies today and placed them in quarantine to observe for a couple of weeks before I move them to my main tank.

    My main tank is a 20g which has three guppies and a platy (I moved yesterday from quarantine, treated velvet and finished treatment a week ago). I tried to move him to the 20g actually last week, but as soon as I placed him in there all three guppies just jumped on him so I moved him back to quarantine. When I moved him yesterday I added a tank divider, so one side are the guppies and the other is the platy.

    However, I wanted to get him some friends so he wasn't by himself so I decided to get the two new platies today. Once I got home I placed them in quarantine to observe before moving them in 20g.

    I was told I got two males (also I checked, they appear to be male), but one of the platies is rubbing against the other around his face. I am not sure what this is as I have never seen it. Could this be that one of the fish is trying to mate with the other?

    Another thing I notice in my quarantine tank (not completely cycled, have been keeping clean water with every other day water changes) after a water change I know some debris will be floating around, but I have seen this pale looking stuff. I really don't know how to describe it. I am not sure what it is, but I am a little worried cause these platies appear to have eaten some of it.

    Also my other platy (one in the 20g) was recently in the quarantine tank and I noticed he may have eaten some of it too. And today I noticed that he had some stringy poo, and this has alarmed me. I began feeding him some medicated food as a precaution, but I am not sure whether this white stuff in the quarantine tank (pale, slimy, not fuzzy) could have given him the stringy poo.

    I am sorry about the description about this pale stuff, I really have no idea what it could be. I am just a little worried whether this could harm my new guys. I would appreciate any info.

    Thank you!
     
  2. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone,
    I separated my two new platy with a tank divider and today I began to inspect them closer and it appears that one of them (mickey mouse platy) lost some scales or something. These areas look like little white areas (he is orange with gold fins) on one area on his belly and it appears also right under top fin and I think on his tail right on the Mickey mouse. I can tell it's not ich, I guess it looks kinda fuzzy, I'm thinking a fungus.

    Both guys have began to swim through the tank, but everytime I get close to the tank or do some rapid movement they get scared and begin to hide towards the back of the tank.

    I am thinking of doing a small water change and treating with paragard, which is a broad treatment.

    Any suggestions I would appreciate.

    Thank you
     
  3. Mamajin

    MamajinWell Known MemberMember

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    I think you've got the right idea there. Water changes and ParaGuard. Let us know if things don't appear to get any better within a few days and we'll see what other direction you can take.

    Edit: Just in case it is a fungus or even a bacterial infection, lower the temperature to a safe point for them (what ever the lowest temperature is that your fish can tolerate). Fungus and bacteria thrive in warmer temps.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Thank you for the reply.

    I did a 20-25% water change with prime and then did a dose of paraguard.

    These new guys are so timid. I hope they come around. They hide or try to hide when I am close to the tank. But if I watch them from afar they seem to just be exploring their side of the tank.

    My temp is 77 right now. Since its kinda late where I'm at, I don't plan to lower the temp today so I can monitor the changes
     
  5. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone,
    I just checked on my new fish. It looks like my Mickey mouse platy might have his top fin clamped (with slightly white coating on one area).
    The white patch area on his belly also appears maybe slightly larger.
    He also looks to have thin string like poo. . He also appears to be flashing on a penguin ornament I have in the tank.
    I have medicated food which I can feed him and the second dose of paraguard won't be till later today. I noticed during the water change yesterday both guys were trying hide, I hope didn't just stress them out

    The whole moving I guess just stressed him out like crazy, I tried to do everything in dark and slowly (during acclimation), and I tried to be careful during netting them as well

    My other platy(in the tank with him) appears fine normal with normal poo, well part of it looked normal I am just worried if he should undergo all this treatment too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  6. OP
    OP
    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone,
    I did my second dose of paraguard yesterday (around 7ish in the evening).

    Today I plan on doing a 20% water change (tank not completely cycled and to keep clean water) with prime later on in the day.

    So I checked on my new guys, and I think he is getting worse. It looks like his pectoral fins are now clamped along with his top fin (saw this yesterday). The white area on his top fin appears to be spreading onto his tail now as well. The white area on his belly appears fuller (I guess you could describe it as cottony) as well. I am also not sure whether his mouth actually is begging to take on a white color or not as well. I have also have noticed that when this little guy gets scared by something its the only time he begins to scratch on the penguin ornament I have, otherwise he doesn't. I notice if I move to fast in front of the tank he gets really scared and begins to dart everywhere with him ending up scratching on the penguin.

    Here are some photos I just took. Sorry I couldn't get really close. These guys are really timid and I don't why. If I sit if front of the tank not moving or moving very slowly they don't seem to notice me, but I move at a normal speed they get scare and try to hide. See my girlfriend got them and she said she watched them for close to a hour before getting them and that they were very active and social and appeared very healthy. So I am just hoping I can help them get back to that point.

    IMG_20140222_071240.IMG_20140222_071249.IMG_20140222_071301.IMG_20140222_071320.

    You can somewhat see these white areas on him. To me it looks like its spreading and I am not really sure if I should continue on with the paraguard (broad spectrum treatment) or not. According to the bottle it doesn't have a set treatment time and it just states that to continue as along fish show no stress. Directions say to dose daily, and according to seachem it is because they medication evaporates within a day (so no concentration build up)

    I have other things I could try:
    Melafix
    Pimafix
    Tetra Lifeguard (another broad spectrum treatment)
    Seachem Kanaplex
    also aquarium salt (I know I know..., I haven't been using it but I do have it)

    I not sure whether I should give some these a try that are more specific for bacterial/fungus infections. My only worry would be that these treatment last around a week and don't really mention anything about mid-treatment water changes. This worries me cause I have been doing a water change every other day to ensure that these guys aren't harmed by spikes.

    Please I would gladly hear any recommendations. I am not sure whether I should try something else I have, or something else that is better (I will gladly purchase what need to heal my little guy).

    Thank you

    Edit: I also have my other new platy in the tank with him, but he appears fine and I am not sure what to do. It has only been a couple of days and I am not sure whether to risk putting him into the main tank. Also, he is very timid as well and I am not sure if he would be okay at the moment with my other platy in the main tank. I am afraid he would just stress out and introduce something into the tank, but I am not sure whether he should undergo any of treatments the mickey mouse platy needs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  7. Mamajin

    MamajinWell Known MemberMember

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    I would not use either of the Melafix or Pimafix. Those are all natural and very mild medications meant for treating symptoms when they very first appear, so they would do no good at this point.

    Let me ask you a silly question; did you remove the chemical media (carbon/Purigen etc.) from your filter? If you didn't then that may be why the medication is not working. Chemical media removes the medication from the water.

    If you honestly feel that the medication is not working (and you did remove the carbon/purigen) then I would give 20 to 30 minute Methylene Blue baths a try. Be careful with the Methylene Blue as it will stain anything it comes in contact with (cheap small buckets from Home Depot or Lowe's can be used).
     
  8. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty my carbon is out. I doubt I put it back since the other platy was in the tank. I will double check. Now i may ask you a dumb question. I'm am not entirely sure how to run bath. I have never done it.

    My basic understanding is get a bucket, likely something dark so the fish doesn't freak out, with some tank water add whatever the bath will consist of. Then return fish after amount of time.
    What I am not clear about is do I need a heater and what should I do say the fish does freak out.

    Also moving him kinda me cause he is really scared of me and wouldn't that just freak him more

    I just got home and checked and my carbon was out
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2014
  9. jdhef

    jdhefModeratorModerator Member

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    I've never given a fish a bath, but I would assume that you would tank some tank water and put that into the container you are using as the bath tub. Then add an appropiate amount of whatever treatment you are going to use. Then net fish out of tank, and put into bath. Then after appropriate amount of time in bath, net out and put back in tank.

    I would assume that the fish would not be in the bath long enough for the temperature to drop enough to need a heater.
     
  10. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Thanks for the reply.
    That's basically kinda what I s thinking. I can't get to the store to try to some get methylene blue today. I think I am going to change his water today as planned and dose with paraguard. I hope tomorrow he is better.

    I was looking into the kanaplex I have, and it's basically seachems anti bacteria anti fungal treatment.

    Has anyone ever used it to treat fungus or bacteria infection. I originally got it cause I had a Molly that was in real bad shape a couple (r.i.p my little girl). That I was giving as a medicated food mix.
     
  11. Mamajin

    MamajinWell Known MemberMember

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    You can use KanaPlex in the bath with the Methylene Blue. I do encourage you to Google (or just call Seachem) to find out how much MB and KanaPlex to use according to the amount of water you'll be using in the bucket. The Methylene Blue will be so blue that the fish will barely be able to see in the bucket, so dimming the lights will more than likely help a tad with the stress of being moved with a net.

    One thing I did when using the net to move the fish is I had an old tattered wash cloth in my hand to catch the drips. You do not want the Methylene Blue to get into your main display tank... it will kill the nitrifying bacteria in the filter.
     
  12. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone
    Just an update on my situation. So I was planning to call Seachem about kanaplex, but they are only open during weekdays so I kept using the paraguard until I could call them.
    I did notice yesterday that this fungus kept spreading and I didn't want the other platy to catch anything so I moved him to another ten gallon I had sitting around. I took a piece of floss from my cycled 20g to seed the tank.

    This morning during feeding I was inspecting my new platies (now each have a ten gallon to themselves) and the one that was fine has some cottony fuzz patch on his mouth now. Reason I hadn't moved him to the main tank cause I wanted to be sure he didn't have anything, and now he does.

    Now my other platy still has that fungus and I believe it's spreading. He is more active now and wasn't hiding when I was feeding him too. (Small victory). But now when I got home later in the afternoon I see he has ick now. I did speak with Seachem earlier but after the ick kanaplex I don't think is the way to go since it is basically a antibacterial/fungal treatment.

    I did a relatively large water change in both tanks and began dosing with tetra lifeguard, the other broad spectrum treatment I have. I used this a while ago when I had a similar issue (almost exact) with my guppies back in November. They had fungus, ick, fin rot, swim bladder and it cured them. I hope works better than the paraguard.
    I decided to switch because I also spoke with Seachem and they say they would recommend a treatment around 3-5 weeks. And they way things are looking I don't it was helping at all.

    I just hope I can get my guys better. Again I thank everyone for trying to me.

    Also if everyone has any ideas please let me know.

    Thanks again.
     
  13. Mamajin

    MamajinWell Known MemberMember

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    Pretty sure the fish have Columnaris (aka cotton mouth disease, body fungus, mouth fungus and many other nicknames). It's fuzzy and looks just like fungus, but it's actually a gram negative bacteria. Columnaris can be virulent and kill rather quickly, so appropriate action should be taken right away.

    20 to 30 minute baths in Methylene Blue with KanaPlex and Furan 2 is what Id recommend at this point. (Furan and Furan 2 are completely different medications, so be sure to get the Furan 2.)
     
  14. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    I'm sad to hear that.
    If i may ask how can you tell between that and say a body fungus. I have read about columnaris and I have seen that symptoms appear to be cotton mouth and saddle back.

    The guy with the fuzzy stuff on his mouth is the other platy.
    The one that has had the fungus has it on his top fin, and around it with fin clamped too. He had it on the Mickey mouse dots on his tail but that is gone. He also has it on belly where I think he had a scratch from moving.

    If that's what it I will try to get some methylene blue. I also don't have furan-2. I know he has this fungus looking stuff but now with ick as well. I don't think things would help him with that would they?

    Unfortunately my LFS is closed right now so I'll will have to wait to get this things.
     
  15. ricmcc

    ricmccWell Known MemberMember

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    Did you say that you have previously treated guppies for fungus, ich, fin rot, and swim bladder disease, all at once?
    Perhaps you could seek another source for your fish, and make sure that you clean your tanks thoroughly.
    Also, take a careful look at the fish that you purchase--platys are not normally shy in the least. An ounce of prevention and all that.----------rick
     
  16. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    I did treat all of those with lifeguard. All of them didn't have everything. Like two had fin rot, which an other had a fungus on his tail fin and swim bladder. But that was last year and they are fine now and still okay.

    My girlfriend got the new fish and she said she watched them for an hour before getting them to make sure they were fine. She did tell me that the cashier did throw the fish in the bag with the other things she bought. She mentioned she immediately was like and took them out herself. I was thinking that how was probably how this all started.

    I am just not sure what to do. I just want to try to help them. I was thinking that it is fungus now possibly columnaris, but I have never faced it so I don't know what to expect and there is only so much you can see from pictures and the internet, which is why I post to more experienced fish lovers for help.
     
  17. OP
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    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Hey everyone,
    Just fed and did inspections of my fish. I believe the fungus (or bacterial, whatever it is) took a hit back. my Mickey mouse no longer has his top fin clamped. The white areas on him look lighter like some came off. My other platy with the stuff on his mouth looks like the white fuzzy thing is smaller. I think it decreased.
    My Mickey mouse however does have the ick I saw yesterday and I know that it must go through it's life cycle to kill it with medication in the tank.

    The lifeguard is a five day treatment, it appears to do a little work just from the first dose.

    I do still plan to get the medications you all recommended just in case today. Does it sound reasonable to continue on with this treatment and if things go back in reverse to begin to do the baths. I wouldn't want to just stress them out with just medication?

    Thanks again everyone.

    One last thing I believe they are starting to come around. When I feed them they don't seem as timid.
     
  18. jdhef

    jdhefModeratorModerator Member

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    So long as it's working, I would just stick with what you are doing.
     
  19. Mamajin

    MamajinWell Known MemberMember

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    I agree with Jdhef, but wanted to answer your previous post as to why I chose the medications that I did;

    Columnaris is highly contagious, so if one fish has it then they all have it, regardless if they show symptoms or not. More often times than not it's extremely hard to get rid of and will keep coming back if it's not properly eradicated the first time (tank conditions must be kept top notch). Not all medications are created equal, meaning that some treat for gram positive (semi rare) and some treat for gram negative. Some even treat both. Another thing to note as well is that symptoms are not always going to be the same for every fish.

    Methylene Blue will treat parasites, fungus, and bacterial infections. It is also easily absorbed through the fishes skin and gills and will help fight internal infections. MB will also act as a binding agent for other medications (assists in allowing other medications to be more easily absorbed).

    KanaPlex (treats gram negative) and Furan 2 (treats some gram positive and gram negative); there use to be a medication called Spectrogram that contained both of these medications, but the company went out of business. It's safe to combine both Kanamycin and Nitrofurizone and is often recommended to use with the Methylene Blue. Both KanaPlex and Furan 2 together should help heal stubborn cases of Columnaris.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Jose

    JoseValued MemberMember

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    Thank you,
    For clearing that for me. I think I will go get those medications today just to have on hand. Sounds like that combo of things can handle a great deal.
     
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