New Fresh Water 30 Gallon

excelsior

Looking to start a fresh water 30 gallon and wanted to ask for some feedback

Size: 30 gal
Filter: Penguin 350b
Fishless, fish food cycle

Stocking:
5 x Albino Cory
5 x Cherry Barb
5 x Red Cherry Shrimp
5 x Red Minor (Serpae) Tetra
5 x Longfin Zebra Danio
5 x Murray River Rainbowfish

Questions:

-Any recommendations on the list above? Add or replace anything?
-Order of introduction and time in between once tank is ready
-Horned nerite snails or no snails in the tank? If team snails, how many?


Thanks.
 

BigManAquatics

I would suggest several more serpaes or they will probably become a nuisance to the other fish. In general i think you would be better off with fewer types of fish and a few more of each type you keep.
 

excelsior

I would suggest several more serpaes or they will probably become a nuisance to the other fish. In general i think you would be better off with fewer types of fish and a few more of each type you keep.
Thanks for the reply and feedback. The rainbowfish was a last minute add to the list so maybe I'll remove that and add a few more Serpaes. Any thoughts on the snails in this type of community tank?
 

StarGirl

I wouldnt add nerite snails until it gets really established. They generally wont eat prepared foods. They like biofilm and algae. Nerites dont hatch in freshwater. So how many you get will be how many you have. I would say 3 in a 30 will be fine.
 

excelsior

I wouldnt add nerite snails until it gets really established. They generally wont eat prepared foods. They like biofilm and algae. Nerites dont hatch in freshwater. So how many you get will be how many you have. I would say 3 in a 30 will be fine.
Thanks. Any stocking recommendations or changes to my list you'd make?
 

86 ssinit

For filter I’d go with the marineland 250 or the tidal 50 or an aquaclear 50. Just better filters.
What most people do for fishless now is add ammonia and tetra safe start or other beneficial bacteria.

As to fish make sure they are temperature compatible. I think the danio’s like cooler water than the others. Also all fish will probably eat the shrimp.
 

Masspanic

Agree with less species, more of each in the groups. So maybe doing 1 or 2 less groups and upping their numbers to 8 ish? I always noticed the albinos were very active compared to other cories by the way. I haven’t kept the other species you’re thinking about adding, but if any will be bothered by that, they might not be too happy with each other (I once had an albino swim directly into my betta, but luckily she was chill). Also, you could definitely do more RCS if you’d like and/or put them in the tank first and let them build up a nice little colony—I’d be concerned their numbers are too low and they might get picked off.
 

excelsior

For filter I’d go with the marineland 250 or the tidal 50 or an aquaclear 50. Just better filters.
What most people do for fishless now is add ammonia and tetra safe start or other beneficial bacteria.

As to fish make sure they are temperature compatible. I think the danio’s like cooler water than the others. Also all fish will probably eat the shrimp.
Marineland 250 is better than the 350? Didn't think about looking into temp compatibility, thanks for the advice.
Agree with less species, more of each in the groups. So maybe doing 1 or 2 less groups and upping their numbers to 8 ish? I always noticed the albinos were very active compared to other cories by the way. I haven’t kept the other species you’re thinking about adding, but if any will be bothered by that, they might not be too happy with each other (I once had an albino swim directly into my betta, but luckily she was chill). Also, you could definitely do more RCS if you’d like and/or put them in the tank first and let them build up a nice little colony—I’d be concerned their numbers are too low and they might get picked off.
Yeah that's exactly what I'll do. Remove the Rainbow fish and add more of the others. I plan on introducing the shrimp first, any feedback on the order of species being added after that?
 

86 ssinit

Well the 250 moves 250gph that’s about 8x an hour. More than enough. I ran a 30 for years with the 250. It’s cheap and well made.

Thing with shrimp is most fish will eat them or harass them. All fish will eat shrimplets. Next you can’t add shrimp to a new tank. They need a well established tank. At least 6months old. They eat bio-film and algae like the nerites. It’s very hard to keep shrimp with fish. To pull this off you need an established shrimp tank. You’d take the culls from that shrimp tank and add them to your community tank. Will take a few months for a colony to develop. Mine was nocturnal in my discus tank.
 

Masspanic

Marineland 250 is better than the 350? Didn't think about looking into temp compatibility, thanks for the advice.

Yeah that's exactly what I'll do. Remove the Rainbow fish and add more of the others. I plan on introducing the shrimp first, any feedback on the order of species being added after that?
I haven’t personally kept most of the species you’re thinking of putting in unfortunately, so not too sure on them for order of introduction to tank, sorry! I would generally assume it depends on whether they’re a territorial species or not. If there’s no issues there, might be a good idea to try to put your favorite species in before others, just in case any plans change
 

bumblinBee

My only other concern that I haven't seen anybody mention yet are the longfin zebras. I've born witness to what serpaes can do to regular zebra danios, and I don't think longfin will be a good mix. It might have just been my experience, but when keeping them in a 90g (both with schools of 15+), the danios always had some torn fins from nipping at one another and from the serpaes.

If you aren't interested in the short fin versions of zebra danios, please consider a different species or have a backup solution in mind if things go south. (Also, definitely going to want to go with more RCS, closer to 10-15 would be a better start - and wait until the tank has aged a while before adding them, at least a few months)
 

excelsior

My only other concern that I haven't seen anybody mention yet are the longfin zebras. I've born witness to what serpaes can do to regular zebra danios, and I don't think longfin will be a good mix. It might have just been my experience, but when keeping them in a 90g (both with schools of 15+), the danios always had some torn fins from nipping at one another and from the serpaes.

If you aren't interested in the short fin versions of zebra danios, please consider a different species or have a backup solution in mind if things go south. (Also, definitely going to want to go with more RCS, closer to 10-15 would be a better start - and wait until the tank has aged a while before adding them, at least a few months)
Appreciate the feedback. I'm open to changing the entire stocking list, my thought was just to have at least one species for each level of the tank (bottom, middle, and top). What would be your ideal stocking for a fresh water, community, 30 gal tank once fully established?

Top:
Danio
Other good option(s)?

Middle:
Barb and Serpae
Replace Serpae with something else?

Bottom:
Cory and RCS
 

bumblinBee

Appreciate the feedback. I'm open to changing the entire stocking list, my thought was just to have at least one species for each level of the tank (bottom, middle, and top). What would be your ideal stocking for a fresh water, community, 30 gal tank once fully established?

Top:
Danio
Other good option(s)?

Middle:
Barb and Serpae
Replace Serpae with something else?

Bottom:
Cory and RCS
When I first started out with fish keeping I really wanted to balance the activity in all different levels of the tank as well. I quickly learned that there really aren't a lot of fish that will spend the majority of their time near the surface (with a few exceptions of course).

There are hatchet fish, they are almost exclusively in the upper levels of the water column - that being said, they've got a unique body shape and aren't everybody's cup of tea. Most gourami are more inclined toward the upper levels of the aquarium because they can breathe air from the surface, but they will explore all levels. There are bettas as well, which despite their popularity I feel most people disregard when stocking tanks over 10g, although they tend to explore all areas of a tank too. Apart from those and danios, I really can't think of another species that are upper level for that tank size.

I find that serpaes are mid-low level dwellers, and can be a little on the nippier side. Cherry barb's can be a little nippy as well, particularly within their own species - make sure you've got a 2:1 ratio of females to males to offset some of the harassment. I personally prefer smaller schooling fish on the calmer side. Cardinal tetras or glowlight tetras are a good option for you if that's something you like.

Cories are an excellent option for bottom dwellers, especially for a tank of that size! I haven't had an opportunity to keep them myself, but they're next on my wish list. RCS are also a lovely pick, but it's best to have a heavily planted tank if you want to avoid predation from your other tank inhabitants.

There are so many different options with the amount of space that you have, it's difficult to really narrow down what to do. If it were me, I'd probably do a school of cories, the RCS, a school of mid dwelling fish, and a centre piece fish or small group of non schooling fish.

Something like:
- 1 male pearl gourami, (optionally with a female or two) OR a pair of rams
- 8-12 cardinal tetra OR neon tetra OR glowlight tetra OR harlequin rasbora etc. etc.
- 6-8 corydora of your choice
- 10-20 RCS
- 1 snail of choice
(obviously be more or less generous with the number of fish in each school based on how many you'll have in the other school, better to lean toward under-stocking)

OR

- 4-6 honey gourmai (sex ratio 1:2-3 male to female preferably) OR small group of live bearers
- 12-15 ember tetras OR celestial pearl danios
- 6-8 corydora of your choice
- 10-20 RCS
- 1-3 nerite snails OR 1-2 mystery snails OR 1-2 rabbit snails etc.

These are just my ideas though - there are so many different possibilities! Take your time and figure out which fish are your dreamies, the ones you really like the look/behaviour of, and then work the rest of the inhabitants around them. (And other members feel free to correct these stocking ideas if there are any issues with them, these were just off my cuff)
 

SparkyJones

Would you consider yourself an extremely patient person?

"Fishless, fish food cycle"

this is the longest method of cycling a tank, you have to wait for the food to break down and decay for it to produce ammonia that can then be converted. it works, but if done this way, you are in for a 30 days plus cycling process. you have to wait on the decay, then the ammonia breakers, then the nitrite breakers.

Ammonia is faster alone, ammonia and bacteria starter is faster than just ammonia,
even a fish in cycle is faster than a food cycle but requires a lot of attention to keep it safe for the fish, because the fish produces ammonia and introduces some of the needed bacteria for both steps of nitrification.

I wish you the best of luck of course, just warning you need extreme patience to make it to the end of a food cycle.
 

excelsior

When I first started out with fish keeping I really wanted to balance the activity in all different levels of the tank as well. I quickly learned that there really aren't a lot of fish that will spend the majority of their time near the surface (with a few exceptions of course).

There are hatchet fish, they are almost exclusively in the upper levels of the water column - that being said, they've got a unique body shape and aren't everybody's cup of tea. Most gourami are more inclined toward the upper levels of the aquarium because they can breathe air from the surface, but they will explore all levels. There are bettas as well, which despite their popularity I feel most people disregard when stocking tanks over 10g, although they tend to explore all areas of a tank too. Apart from those and danios, I really can't think of another species that are upper level for that tank size.

I find that serpaes are mid-low level dwellers, and can be a little on the nippier side. Cherry barb's can be a little nippy as well, particularly within their own species - make sure you've got a 2:1 ratio of females to males to offset some of the harassment. I personally prefer smaller schooling fish on the calmer side. Cardinal tetras or glowlight tetras are a good option for you if that's something you like.

Cories are an excellent option for bottom dwellers, especially for a tank of that size! I haven't had an opportunity to keep them myself, but they're next on my wish list. RCS are also a lovely pick, but it's best to have a heavily planted tank if you want to avoid predation from your other tank inhabitants.

There are so many different options with the amount of space that you have, it's difficult to really narrow down what to do. If it were me, I'd probably do a school of cories, the RCS, a school of mid dwelling fish, and a centre piece fish or small group of non schooling fish.

Something like:
- 1 male pearl gourami, (optionally with a female or two) OR a pair of rams
- 8-12 cardinal tetra OR neon tetra OR glowlight tetra OR harlequin rasbora etc. etc.
- 6-8 corydora of your choice
- 10-20 RCS
- 1 snail of choice
(obviously be more or less generous with the number of fish in each school based on how many you'll have in the other school, better to lean toward under-stocking)

OR

- 4-6 honey gourmai (sex ratio 1:2-3 male to female preferably) OR small group of live bearers
- 12-15 ember tetras OR celestial pearl danios
- 6-8 corydora of your choice
- 10-20 RCS
- 1-3 nerite snails OR 1-2 mystery snails OR 1-2 rabbit snails etc.

These are just my ideas though - there are so many different possibilities! Take your time and figure out which fish are your dreamies, the ones you really like the look/behaviour of, and then work the rest of the inhabitants around them. (And other members feel free to correct these stocking ideas if there are any issues with them, these were just off my cuff)
Great feedback, thank you for the detailed response.
Would you consider yourself an extremely patient person?

"Fishless, fish food cycle"

this is the longest method of cycling a tank, you have to wait for the food to break down and decay for it to produce ammonia that can then be converted. it works, but if done this way, you are in for a 30 days plus cycling process. you have to wait on the decay, then the ammonia breakers, then the nitrite breakers.

Ammonia is faster alone, ammonia and bacteria starter is faster than just ammonia,
even a fish in cycle is faster than a food cycle but requires a lot of attention to keep it safe for the fish, because the fish produces ammonia and introduces some of the needed bacteria for both steps of nitrification.

I wish you the best of luck of course, just warning you need extreme patience to make it to the end of a food cycle.
My expectations are fully set on the duration of this method and the patience required lol but appreciate the heads up. For some reason, I thought the fishless, fish food method would be the most "natural" cycle without introducing an ammonia solution, starter bacteria, or a starter fish that could handle the cycle. I am starting to get the feeling that I should adjust the approach and at least add ammonia to the process.
 

SparkyJones

Great feedback, thank you for the detailed response.

My expectations are fully set on the duration of this method and the patience required lol but appreciate the heads up. For some reason, I thought the fishless, fish food method would be the most "natural" cycle without introducing an ammonia solution, starter bacteria, or a starter fish that could handle the cycle. I am starting to get the feeling that I should adjust the approach and at least add ammonia to the process.
Only if you'd like it cycled before Halloween. Hahahaha! might not be THAT long.
it's pretty natural any way you do it really. You can still use the fishfood along with the ammonia if you like to promote the decay bacterial colonization (detrivores) as you build your nitrifiers. I just wouldn't rely solely on food because you'd first need to get some detrivores before you even begin ammonia production at speed, to start colonizing nitrifiers at speed. with food cycles, or fish in, it's hard to gauge the size of the nitrifier colony at the end, and if you overstock for the nitrifier colony size, it's going to spike.

People usually just dose the 2ppm ammonia and feed a colony like that, knowing by the time it's processing 2ppm ammonia in 24 hours, the fish they put in likely won't get anywhere near that level and it won't spike.

But yeah, depends on the bacterial starter product, some have detrivores and nitrifiers, some have anaerobic and aerobic bacteria to give a wide range of bacteria a boost to speed along the cycle. Some are very specific and a very narrow range of bacteria. it's all proprietary, heck some of it is probably water and salmonella for all I know they guard their recipes.
Even jump starting my tanks off of other filters from long established cycles with everything available, somewhere along the way I'm sure to get a bacterial or diatom bloom within the first 6 months from something not in balance that is catching up.

it's really the same end result no matter how you do it, some faster, some slower than others all eventually getting you to the same place. the tank itself will take on bacteria from it's surroundings also given time. the slow part is multiplying bacteria at the early stages 1 to 2, 2 to 4, 4 to 8. the purpose of the boosters is just to give it a head start somewhere in the millions hopefully and speed up multiplication.
 

excelsior

Update

Thank you to everyone who provided feedback here. I made some changes and added more info on the build I plan to start. Any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated!

Size: 30 gal
Filter: Penguin 350b
Heater: Aqueon Preset 200 Watt
Gravel: Nat Geo Aquarium Substrate (tan, not painted)
Artificial Ornaments
No live plants

Cycle: I was going to do fishless, fish food but I am slowly being convinced not to put my patience to that type of test and to either use the addition of an ammonia solution and/or bacteria starter

Stocking:
10 x Celestial Pearl Danio
10 x Cherry Barb
10 x Neon Tetra
6 x Cory Catfish
3 x Horn Nerite Snail
10 x RCS
1 x Pearl Gourami OR Bolivian ram

I am not completely sold on the Neon Tetras and am open to replacing or eliminating those from the tank.

Which would be a better option to have only one of, the gourami or the ram? I like the look of the ram more but I may only be able to get my hands on the gourami from the LFS. Headed there shortly to take a look at what's available
 

SparkyJones

Update

Thank you to everyone who provided feedback here. I made some changes and added more info on the build I plan to start. Any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated!

Size: 30 gal
Filter: Penguin 350b
Heater: Aqueon Preset 200 Watt
Gravel: Nat Geo Aquarium Substrate (tan, not painted)
Artificial Ornaments
No live plants

Cycle: I was going to do fishless, fish food but I am slowly being convinced not to put my patience to that type of test and to either use the addition of an ammonia solution and/or bacteria starter

Stocking:
10 x Celestial Pearl Danio
10 x Cherry Barb
10 x Neon Tetra
6 x Cory Catfish
3 x Horn Nerite Snail
10 x RCS
1 x Pearl Gourami OR Bolivian ram

I am not completely sold on the Neon Tetras and am open to replacing or eliminating those from the tank.

Which would be a better option to have only one of, the gourami or the ram? I like the look of the ram more but I may only be able to get my hands on the gourami from the LFS. Headed there shortly to take a look at what's available
a month from now, when your tank is cycled, they will have very different fish options at that time. ;)

In fact while you are there to window shop, ask about them ordering in the fish you want with their stock order so that it arrives in 4-6 weeks when your tank is cycled and ready for them if they don't have what you want there.
 

Similar Aquarium Threads

Replies
4
Views
877
Anders247
Replies
8
Views
490
Fanatic
Replies
2
Views
77
excelsior
Replies
78
Views
6K
tropez
Replies
11
Views
444
Lance0414

New Aquarium Build Threads

Latest Aquarium Threads

Top Bottom