New Dwarf Cichlids.. plz help ID?

[capekate]

Well I went out looking for keyhole cichlids today, but they didnt have any. BUT as some of you know, I love the d.cichlids and they are ordering me some GBRs which I am pretty happy about. But, I saw these d.cichlids that I was told are Bolivians. But looking at photos of Bolivians I cannot ID these fish. Most Bolivians I saw did not have the spot at the caudal fin as these do.Also with the gorgeous blue specks throughout the tail and dorsal fins and black stripes I have no idea what they are. ??? PLLEEEZE don't tell me that one of these is a baby jack dempsey lol.... cuz it sure looks like one? I cannot get a photo of the female with the red belly yet, she is pretty shy but when I can I will add her photo.
Anyone have any clue what these are? I was told they are apistogrammas but I'm not sure?
thanks, ~ kate

 

[Shawnie]

Well I went out looking for keyhole cichlids today, but they didnt have any. BUT as some of you know, I love the d.cichlids and they are ordering me some GBRs which I am pretty happy about. But, I saw these d.cichlids that I was told are Bolivians. But looking at photos of Bolivians I cannot ID these fish. Most Bolivians I saw did not have the spot at the caudal fin as these do.Also with the gorgeous blue specks throughout the tail and dorsal fins and black stripes I have no idea what they are. ??? PLLEEEZE don't tell me that one of these is a baby jack dempsey lol.... cuz it sure looks like one? I cannot get a photo of the female with the red belly yet, she is pretty shy but when I can I will add her photo.
Anyone have any clue what these are? I was told they are apistogrammas but I'm not sure?
thanks, ~ kate

ah kate, I won't tell ya , BUT....they do look like my baby jacks ...I sowwy hun...great lookin fish tho! baby jack ....

 

[Butterfly]

I thought of this one

or this one

but something is just a bit off. sorry I couldn't help more
Carol

 

[Allie]

Definitely not a Electric blue JD. Whew for you.
The first pix looks like a different fish from the other 2 pixs.
The first one looks like some sort of SA dwarf.

Which is really odd b/c when I got my Keyholes they had Blue Acara mixed in with them. They are int he same family.

 

[Shawnie]

LOL I still think the last pic is a JD...he so looks like my baby did...and the blue comes out as they get older... but ive been wrong many times in my life, this wouldnt be the last I'm sure

 

[Allie]

LOL I still think the last pic is a JD...he so looks like my baby did...and the blue comes out as they get older... but ive been wrong many times in my life, this wouldnt be the last I'm sure

Actually they look like 3 different fish. One being the JD, the last pix.
I think you need to call that store & tell them you have everything but the Bolivian Ram.

 

[Shawnie]

how about one being a green terror?? sorta kinda maybe?

 

[Allie]

how about one being a green terror?? sorta kinda maybe?

Nope...they are more orange and very mean. We had a 3 inch one last year and he killed or beat up anything in his sight. But him with a tank of convicts the next I found him on the floor. The convicts we too much for him. Karma for the little meanie.

 

[capekate]

Thanks so much for all your help folks!

Carol: your link on the apisto Commbrae looks like the little one in my photo. Its very possible that they are the same kind.

Shawnie: Your lil JD is a cutie pie and sure does look like the other two photos I posted. If it wasn't for the lack of black vertical lines like mine, I would really have to re think if it were a JD! YIKES.. tho they are gorgeous fish, just not what I planned on having in my tank! lol.. guess only time will tell?

Allie:
thanks so much for the link.. I checked out the photos of the Pulchers, my fish have the caudal black spot that the Pulchers lack.. other than that, they look a lot alike.

Thank you so much for looking up these fish species for me. I really appreciate it. Maybe my three guys are all morph d. cichlids and were inter bred with other dwarfs? Wish I knew for sure... but its possible.
They are doing great.. and I am enjoying watching them in the tank.
I also picked up two turquoise blue rainbows while I was there. ;D
Ahhh.. a great day for fish shopping.. and can't wait to be able to add some GBRs in a week or so.
~ kate

 

[capekate]

I did look at some photos of the Green Texas cichlid.. and they did look alike too. hmmm... but for those very dark vertical lines, that really are not lines but look almost more mottled black wavy designs.. I really have no clue!

 

[Shawnie]

CLUELESS IN FISHLORE!

 

[Allie]

CLUELESS IN FISHLORE!

If we could only see them in person. Pix can be deceiving sometimes.

 

[capekate]

hmmmm closest thing to in person is a video of them swimming around!
I will do that tomorrow after my husband goes in for some over time work. lol... The tank is in the living room where the tv is... and he hates it when I get in the way with the camera lol.... plus I would tell him that we have to turn down the volume and hes not going to go for that. haha...

Yessss Shawnie... I am clueless in Fishlore lol... btw, lol, my husband said.. who cares what kind they are? They are cool looking.... He just doesn't understand... WE want to know what kind of fish we have in our tanks, and it will drive me crazy til I figure it out lol...

 

[Butterfly]

Their definitely not Bolivians but still beauties.
carol
Turquoise Rainbows? You lucky woman. They want your first born child for those here.
Carol

 

[Shawnie]

Thanks so much for all your help folks!



Shawnie: Your lil JD is a cutie pie and sure does look like the other two photos I posted. If it wasn't for the lack of black vertical lines like mine, I would really have to re think if it were a JD! YIKES.. tho they are gorgeous fish, just not what I planned on having in my tank! lol.. guess only time will tell?




~ kate

oh that wasn't my baby kate...I I don't have pics of mine when he was a baby..but he still looks like mine did lol

 

[Tom]

They look like the Apistogramma BorelI that I saw at the stores here, but they could look almost like them.
Tom

 

[capekate]

Their definitely not Bolivians but still beauties.
carol
Turquoise Rainbows? You lucky woman. They want your first born child for those here.
Carol

HI Carol,
I was very surprised to see them there. wish I could send you a few... didnt cost much, they charged me 8.99 a piece. Which is a lot for me tho.. lol.
They are getting in double red apisto's next week along with the GBRs.. but charge 15.00 each for the double reds.
~ kate

 

[Tom]

lol... btw, lol, my husband said.. who cares what kind they are? They are cool looking.... He just doesn't understand... WE want to know what kind of fish we have in our tanks, and it will drive me crazy til I figure it out lol...

This way you can also figure out how many other fish you can fit in your tank.
Tom

 

[capekate]

new photos

I was able to get a few photos of the female. Everytime I tried to get her, the male would get in the way trying to turn her back to the plants. She is shy right now and when she see's me, she hides again.
But here are a few to get an idea of what she looks like.. nothing like the male I may add.. The photos of her are a little dark.. I will try again tomorrow.
And try to get photos of the blue rainbows..

 

[FishKing]

It is probably a jack dempsey, but I think it is some type of mix breed.

 

[capekate]

hI FishKing I would suspect the same thing, only thing that is confusing the heck out of me is that it has the typical body shape of a d.Cichlid with those bottom (rays) fins that are typical of them. Its so small.. just short of 2 inches right now, its hard to tell. I guess I'm going to have to do a wait and see on this one...

Tom, the store owner also mentioned something about the shipper sending them borelli, and said.. these are not borelli. So your right, they may be a hybrid of some time, a mixed batch of an assortment of d.cichlids that may have all been in the same tank and ended up breeding morphs.. who knows?

Their definitely not Bolivians but still beauties.
carol
Turquoise Rainbows? You lucky woman. They want your first born child for those here.
Carol

HI Carol,
well.. my turquoise rainbows didnt make it. I woke this am to find both of them dead. I just cannot believe it! ugghh... I'm having bad luck with bows lately. After I brought them home I found that these in particular liked the more alkaline water, where my PH is 6.4 and soft water. I don't know if that was the cause of their deaths so sudden or my Angelfish is bothering these guys.I acclimated them slowly for an hour before putting them into the tank. But I noticed that they started to loose their color once they were in the tank. I just cannot believe they are gone.
Now I'm going to have to call the LFS where I bought them to find out what their policy is on returns or if they will at least give me store credit for the double red and GBRs that I want to get next week. I wanted to take photos this am for you, but all I have left now are the photos I took while they were in the bag. Its hard to see all the great blue coloring on them, but you will get an idea of what they looked like. poor lil guys... :-\

 

[Shawnie]

sorry for your loss kate...its totally frustrating when we aren't sure how or why...I hope the pet store helps you out!

 

[Neville]

I was able to get a few photos of the female. Everytime I tried to get her, the male would get in the way trying to turn her back to the plants. She is shy right now and when she see's me, she hides again.
But here are a few to get an idea of what she looks like.. nothing like the male I may add.. The photos of her are a little dark.. I will try again tomorrow.
And try to get photos of the blue rainbows..

I think it's a Blue Acara!

 

[capekate]

sorry for your loss kate...its totally frustrating when we aren't sure how or why...I hope the pet store helps you out!

Thanks Shawnie...
well I sure hope they honor some kind of refund.. that's a lot of money to be out of in 24hrs.. ugggh. Especially since I do want to get those GBRs and a double red, which the double reds go for 15.00 each. I just don't have those kinds of funds ..
BTW at the apistogramma forum, I was told that it looks like a baby JD.
I just hope not. I'm confused by the mottled wavy black lines in its body, the JD doesn't have that. Do your JDs have a black spot at their caudal fin?
The female in the photos above I know is not a JD... shes pretty colorful tho, still have no idea what she may be. gawd.. never had this much problems with not being able to ID fish, that's what happens when you mix breed them in a tank I guess...

 

[Shawnie]

I'm gonna bet my last on that last photo being a JD...it looks totally like mine did...the black lines fade as the blues n greens come out...I had posted another thread on "jack n reggie" so you can clearly see him now as an adult...gosh I wish I had taken pics of him as a juvi...totally the same....goodluck anyway on finding out..and also goodluck with the LFS

 

[Butterfly]

Maybe Dino will be in later, he would know for sure.
carol

 

[capekate]

Well, looking at photos online.. it seems that the female is a FireMouth Cichlid. It has the telltale black spot under its eye area, and the deep red under the mouth and along the belly. The photos I saw of juvies, also look like the smaller one that is still plain in color.

HI Neville, I have to say that the blue acara in this photo below looks just like the fish I have. I think that you may be right.. it does look like a blue acara.
OOOO boy... now I really have to watch these fish!

 

[Shawnie]

hey kate...check out fishlore's article on JD's https://www.fishlore.com/profile-jackdempsey.htm ross wakefields pic looks just like yours and mine as a juvi! don't ya think? LOL

 

[capekate]

I checked the photos out... thanks Shawnie. I just don't know.. I'm still confuuuused! lol...

But the female does look like a Firemouth... I am trying to get a video of this guy but heck... they are still hiding out behind the driftwood and its almost impossible to get them to come out and play! But I will keep trying...

 

[Allie]

I think it's a Blue Acara!

Thank you, that what I said and I'm sticking to it. But only 2 of the pixs look like them.

Thank you, that what I said and I'm sticking to it. But only 2 of the pixs look like them.

Man every pix you take looks different.
Now I see the second set of pixs...it looks like 2 Firemouths and a Blue Acara.
Our Firemouths were two inches & nasty, we had 3 the males killed one of the other.
Something is wrong with the people at that fish store.
2 are in the firemouth family.

 

[capekate]

Thank you, that what I said and I'm sticking to it. But only 2 of the pixs look like them.

HI Allie,
hope all the photos were not confusing. I have three cichlids in the tank that are new. One being the photos of the one we are trying to figure out if it is a JD or B.Acara. the other is a photo of a much smaller juvie, that does not have much coloring at all, and looks like the photo that Carol posted as a Apisto- Commbrae. The last photos above are two of the one I believe is a female or male firemouth with the red patches under its chin, along its belly and the spot right under the cheek, as I have seen in many photos of the firemouth cichlid online. Along with those two photos above, I added another of the fish in question (jd or acara).
I respect your knowledge of cichlids.. and know that you have had, and seen many of them. It is looking more and more like a b.Acara while I have been searching out online s of them.

 

[Allie]

HI Allie,
hope all the photos were not confusing. I have three cichlids in the tank that are new. One being the photos of the one we are trying to figure out if it is a JD or B.Acara. the other is a photo of a much smaller juvie, that does not have much coloring at all, and looks like the photo that Carol posted as a Apisto- Commbrae. The last photos above are two of the one I believe is a female or male firemouth with the red patches under its chin, along its belly and the spot right under the cheek, as I have seen in many photos of the firemouth cichlid online. Along with those two photos above, I added another of the fish in question (jd or acara).
I respect your knowledge of cichlids.. and know that you have had, and seen many of them. It is looking more and more like a b.Acara while I have been searching out online s of them.

Thanks, I love trying to figure out species. Searching and reading about them when you aren't sure what they are help you to remember what they truly are in the long run. Plus I have decided I like the look of soo many over the last few years, learning the hard way that they are too aggressive for me.
I won't ever have an Oscar, Firemouths, or Green Terrors in my house again.

 

[Shawnie]

I so agree..green terrors live up to their name..they would take on anything!! although the norm is being mean for the oscars, mine have been hand fed since I got them five years ago..they are more like a great dane now...totally lazy and laid back, until dinner time hahaha..

 

[Allie]

I so agree..green terrors live up to their name..they would take on anything!! although the norm is being mean for the oscars, mine have been hand fed since I got them five years ago..they are more like a great dane now...totally lazy and laid back, until dinner time hahaha..

We had 2 2" baby oscars, A tiger and an orange last year or the year before. One was super aggressive, the tiger. He/she ate the belly out of $60 4-5" baby arrowna.

 

[Shawnie]

nawty ...
ps..I love your webpage allie...such information for us newbies..thanks!!

 

[capekate]

Well, I just got off the phone with the fish store employee that sold me the fish. I explained that one of the fish is a firemouth and the other is possibly a JD. He said that he doubts very much that it is a JD, as he has had this fish for a long time, and will show me other JDs that came in the same time and I will be able to see the difference in their size etc.
He said that he didnt understand how the firemouth got in there, but said he will take them all back and along with the dead rainbows and give me either a refund or store credit for the GBRs and the double red that I want to pick up next weekend when the new shipment comes in.
He also said that another employee thought that one looked like a steel blue apisto, the one that is thought to look like the A. Commbrae, so with that, he said that if I want, I can bring them all back.. and that he will give me Bolivians if I want when they come in next week too.
So with that said.. at least I know there is recourse for me and that I have not lost the 30 dollars I just spent on fish yesterday. ;D

 

[Allie]

nawty ...
ps..I love your webpage allie...such information for us newbies..thanks!!

Thanks. I forgot about that...need to update soon.

Well, I just got off the phone with the fish store employee that sold me the fish. I explained that one of the fish is a firemouth and the other is possibly a JD. He said that he doubts very much that it is a JD, as he has had this fish for a long time, and will show me other JDs that came in the same time and I will be able to see the difference in their size etc.
He said that he didnt understand how the firemouth got in there, but said he will take them all back and along with the dead rainbows and give me either a refund or store credit for the GBRs and the double red that I want to pick up next weekend when the new shipment comes in.
He also said that another employee thought that one looked like a steel blue apisto, the one that is thought to look like the A. Commbrae, so with that, he said that if I want, I can bring them all back.. and that he will give me Bolivians if I want when they come in next week too.
So with that said.. at least I know there is recourse for me and that I have not lost the 30 dollars I just spent on fish yesterday. ;D

Whew. Yes get your Bolivians (so cute).
I know I am tired of looking at cichlids that are labeled wrong. I think from now on...I am going to correct them on it. SO what happened with you won't happen to the next customer at our lfs.

 

[capekate]

youtube video of the juvI JD

I have been told now by quite a few fish keepers who own JDs that this is in fact a juvI JD.
I took a video of the fish and posted on Youtube. Now you can really (hopefully) be able to tell by its swimming behavior or have a clearer idea of whether it is a JD or an Acara... I have to go with the experts on this, since I have never had a JD before. Ohh yeh, and you can turn down the volume, since it is full of commercials from the tv. sorry about that. lol..

 

[Allie]

I have been told now by quite a few fish keepers who own JDs that this is in fact a juvI JD.
I took a video of the fish and posted on Youtube. Now you can really (hopefully) be able to tell by its swimming behavior or have a clearer idea of whether it is a JD or an Acara... I have to go with the experts on this, since I have never had a JD before. Ohh yeh, and you can turn down the volume, since it is full of commercials from the tv. sorry about that. lol..

Oh yeah that is a juvI JD, not a blue one tho. They get ELECTRIC blue. The acara have a face more like the keyholes.
Stupid fish store.

 

[Shawnie]

phew...thank gosh I didnt have to bet my last .I knew it looked like my boy ...

 

[capekate]

haha.. Allie and Shawnie...
yep.. wouldnt want to see you loose your last dollar on that bet! haha..
gawd... stupid fishstore is right! grrrr.....
Gets me so mad, when the employee says.." ohh nooo way is that a JD juvie". hmmmmmphhh.... ooh yes it is! How many people gotta knock me over the head with this fishs ID? before I get it! guess it was cuz I really didnt want to believe it! lol...
Now my problem to solve is this...
I really really do feel bad about having to bring these fish back! I have gotten attached to this lil ole JD and the firemouth cichlid as well. The other juvI is a steel blue apisto btw. Soooo... Do I just keep these three and forget about getting the GBRs and Bolivians that I want?
or: return them.. and go with the original plan?
I have in the tank now, three rainbows.. one angelfish and three cardinal tetras. I realize that when the JD gets bigger the cardinals will be in trouble. Not sure about the angel fish... the rainbows I can move, because already this baby JD was caught chasing one of the rainbows and its a lot bigger than the JD!
If I keep them, I know that I will not be able to keep any other fish in the tank... I do like the idea of some 'big' fish.. but..... I dunnoooooo decisions .. decisions... what to do?

 

[Shawnie]

haha.. Allie and Shawnie...
yep.. wouldnt want to see you loose your last dollar on that bet! haha..
gawd... stupid fishstore is right! grrrr.....
Gets me so mad, when the employee says.." ohh nooo way is that a JD juvie". hmmmmmphhh.... ooh yes it is! How many people gotta knock me over the head with this fishs ID? before I get it! guess it was cuz I really didnt want to believe it! lol...
Now my problem to solve is this...
I really really do feel bad about having to bring these fish back! I have gotten attached to this lil ole JD and the firemouth cichlid as well. The other juvI is a steel blue apisto btw. Soooo... Do I just keep these three and forget about getting the GBRs and Bolivians that I want?
or: return them.. and go with the original plan?
I have in the tank now, three rainbows.. one angelfish and three cardinal tetras. I realize that when the JD gets bigger the cardinals will be in trouble. Not sure about the angel fish... the rainbows I can move, because already this baby JD was caught chasing one of the rainbows and its a lot bigger than the JD!
If I keep them, I know that I will not be able to keep any other fish in the tank... I do like the idea of some 'big' fish.. but..... I dunnoooooo decisions .. decisions... what to do?

My jd's are in with big fish..oscars and silver dollars...now and then I do get some feeders for them, and they eat them..so yes you are right you wouldnt be able to keep smaller fish with them as they grow...I love the big cichlids so you know what id say ...but you did have your hope on the GBR's n Bolivians..so maybe another tank?? heheheheheh...still love that jd vid..hes a handsome thing as a juvi..cant imagine the colors as an adult that will pop out!....goodluck !

 

[Allie]

If you have had your heart set on the Bolivian Rams then get them. Unless you have room for another tank for the JD & Firemouth. The steel blue apisto would be fine with the Bolivians.

 

[capekate]

My jd's are in with big fish..oscars and silver dollars...now and then I do get some feeders for them, and they eat them..so yes you are right you wouldnt be able to keep smaller fish with them as they grow...I love the big cichlids so you know what id say ...but you did have your hope on the GBR's n Bolivians..so maybe another tank?? heheheheheh...still love that jd vid..hes a handsome thing as a juvi..cant imagine the colors as an adult that will pop out!....goodluck !

Ohhh surrrrre tempt me with telling me how handsome he's going to be when he is an adult!
well, I just moved my rainbows to the 29 gallon tank. No since having him stress them out. hmmmm silver dollars too eh? My husband really likes thos as well as the oscar, but I told him before Nooo way on an oscar, not for the 55g. Its too small. I guess I can always use one of my 29 gallon tanks for the GBRs and Bolivians hmmmmm.... will have to think this one out some more!

 

[Shawnie]

MTS is on the rise!

 

[Allie]

MTS is on the rise!

 

[capekate]

LOL....
MTS doesn't count when you already have the tank set up and in use.. lol, I would just be adding the D.Cichlids to a different tank than planned. Just have to figure out how to move everyone around and make them all happy.
I had to separate my two angels due to fighting.. and had to separate the two Discus due to fighting. Sooo in one 29 gallon tank is a lone Discus, that is not very happy with no other tank mates. The other 29 gallon tank has a Discus and an Angel that seem for the most part to get along. That is where I just added the rainbows from the 55g. I could add the GBR and Bolivians to the 29 gallon with the lone Discus in it...
But I think that its going to come down to how I feel about it on friday whether I'm bringing these back to the fishstore and get the d. cichlids like I planned on. Just have to think about it for awhile more... and weigh all the options. <sigh...> :-\

 

[CapeKateskid]

come on mom u can't bring those poor little fishes back to the store...:'( u know u don't REALLY want to...do u?? get another tank!! tell dad I said :;bb heheheeeee one more tank in the kitchen would be nice

 

[Shawnie]

I like kateskid very much! I so can see her giving the puppy dog eyes

 

[capekate]

I like kateskid very much! I so can see her giving the puppy dog eyes

come on mom u can't bring those poor little fishes back to the store...:'( u know u don't REALLY want to...do u?? get another tank!! tell dad I said :;bb heheheeeee one more tank in the kitchen would be nice

Welllllll dad said... NOOOOO more tanks! LOL and I have to agree, I have too much work as it is with the six I have running now.
OF Course I DONT want to bring them back.. I feel very bad about it. BUT already the JD has gone after the huge angelfish.. which is kinda funny, seeing this little JD think he is king of the tank. (One reason why I moved the rainbows). He doesn't really do anything, but the Angel does not like it one bit and really throws a tantrum lol.. when he comes near her.
I'm going to keep the steel blue apisto and maybe the firemouth cichlid, I hear they are peaceful towards other species... maybe Allie can let me know, if she reads this. But so far I have decided that I have to bring him back.. and probably the firemouth and get the d.cichlids like I wanted to.
:-\
Yes, Shawnie.. and she has such HUGE puppy dog eyes too! lol...