New 5.5 gal tank, fish not surviving

New 5.5 gal tank, fish not surviving
Got a 5.5 gal tank with a continuously flowing (charcoal?) filter on the back, heater (set around 26C). Rinsed all the rocks, plants (plastic), etc. that were put in really well and fired it up. The heater works (light comes on periodically) and the filter is filtering. We used the water treatment and let the tank run for about an hour before putting the fish in. I figured that was too soon but too late now, all but 1 fish died. 24 hours later we had the water tested and the levels were fine, so the fish were replaced (same exact fish) and put in. All but 1 again have died overnight. The water is a bit to fairly cloudy, but the fish people at petsmart say that's something that will go away, it's a 'new tank' thing. Again they tested the water with the different strips and all seems ok.

So not sure what else to do... change the water out and let it run a while before putting new fish in? I see that having fish in there seems to be the best for different reasons but I hate to keep killing them. Would I be better off using the bottled water from the grocery store rather than treated tap water (or is it all maybe really the same?) Should I clear the tank out again and let it run a few days before trying again?

The fish are (2) sunburst wag platy and (2) glofish.

 

I would suggest you read about the nitrogen cycle before adding any new fish

 

I would suggest you read about the nitrogen cycle before adding any new fish

Thanks. There's a lot to read there. Anything specific to read that pertains to my issue?

 

The good news is, you've come to the right place for help. The bad news is, PetSmart is giving you horrible advice that is causing your fish to die.

Best advice: take whatever surviving fish you have back to the store, along with the tank. Get your money back, and use it to buy a bigger tank... at least a 10 gallon... and NO fish. Also buy a liquid test kit such as the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Test strips aren't very accurate and won't help you (or save you any money) in the long run.

On the way home, pick up one of the following:

1. A jumbo shrimp from your supermarket delI OR 2. a bottle of ammonia (JUST ammonia, with no other chemicals added)

Come home, set up your tank, fill it with dechlorinated water, and drop in either the shrimp or a few drops of the ammonia. Turn on the filter. Then, settle in to read the following articles:

Beginner's Guide Part 1 After reading this, do you understand why I said to buy a larger tank? Those platies need at least 10 gallons, and 15-20 gallons would be better for the glofish (which are really modified danios).

Beginner's Guide Part 2 Reading this isn't urgent, but you've got plenty of time (see next section), so go for it.

Beginner's Guide Part 3 Questions for review: What is the cycle? How can I establish the cycle without endangering the lives of fish? Why did I say you "have plenty of time"? (Note: I don't personally use any of the bacteria-in-a-bottle products like the one endorsed by the article.)

The Nitrogen Cycle A more in-depth look at the cycle. Questions for review: Why have your fish been dying? What advice has PetSmart given you that is clearly incorrect?

Fish FAQs Just some general coverage of important rules.

Basically, you've got a long cycling process ahead of you. If you try to rush it (the way PetSmart wants you to), your fish will die. Trust me on this. A year and a half ago, I went through the same thing. Most of us here did. Take your time, and you'll find that your patience will be well rewarded.

As you approach the end of your cycling process, you'll want to read more. FishLore has some wonderful fish profiles that will help you select the best fish for whatever conditions you can provide. Also, the Beginner's Guide Part 4 article will help you learn how to care for your fish.

Best of luck! If you have any questions about these articles (and everyone does! ), don't hesitate to ask!

 

Thanks! Let me see what I can figure out. Not sure about the 10 gal tank at the moment but we can figure something out. Have had betta in 2.5 gal tank with no issues so a bit frustrated that these are causing some. Maybe non-tropical are better for us - we will see!

Thanks again

 

Thanks. There's a lot to read there. Anything specific to read that pertains to my issue?

To be honest to keep fish successfully you have to be willing to read loads. The more you know the easier keeping fish will be I wish you every success with your new tank

 

I am willing which is why I asked for help but need specifics. I don't want to spin my wheels getting more frustrated that I can't find what will pertain to my situation especially when all of it is Greek to me. Once I can get this thing running I'm happy to do what is needed to keep it going.

 

Here are the specifics:

The fish poisoned themselves by releasing ammonia into the water, which is toxic.

This would happen in any new tank that has just had fish put in. It happened more quickly because of the small tank size.

The cloudiness *may* be bacteria feeding on the ammonia, but it will take probably 2-4 weeks for you to get enough bacteria to process that ammonia... and THEN it's even worse, because the bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite, which is even more toxic.

2-4 weeks after that, you'll have a new population of bacteria that will convert nitrIte into less-toxic nitrAte. By then, your fish will be dead.

The 5.5 gallon tank will still be too small: even nitrate is toxic in large quantities, and the 4 fish you listed above would build toxic levels quickly.

The solution is to learn as much as you can about the fishless cycle and follow those directions (linked above), which will establish your bacteria without killing fish.

Your betta likely survived because 1. Bettas are relatively clean fish that don't produce loads of ammonia and 2. Bettas are remarkably tough fish who can often withstand high toxicity. You didn't realize this, but up until your betta tank cycled, your betta wasn't healthy... but he was tough enough not to die, which is great.

Non-tropical fish, assuming you mean goldfish, are much dirtier than most tropicals and need 20 gallons or more. If you're looking for an easier fish to keep... there aren't any, not really.

BTW... when PetSmart tests your water and says "the levels are ok" what they really mean is "your water is exactly as toxic as we'd expect from a tank that we 'helped' set up, so full speed ahead!"

 

I would suggest you read about the nitrogen cycle before adding any new fish

reading this on my computer I see "nitrogen cycle" is automatically a link. I was reading it on the mobile app, which didn't link me to anything, so I figured you were pointing me to the nitrogen cycle forum section, which is way more to read than the article linked. so the moral of the story is not everyone is reading on a computer, therefore can't always see the automatic links that are created.

An update: 2 of the platy's (one was original, one was new) are in there still, but I think one may not have survived. I need to get my net and see if he's just hiding. I put some AmQuel plus in there last night hoping to help, and a bit of Stress Coat as well. Fingers crossed that they are both going to make it.

 

Well I hope you sort things out and things start running smoothly

 

HI Robertk, welcome to fishlore

Some good advice above.

You're already reading about the nitrogen cycle IMO This is the most important subject in keeping fish.... I came here (to fishlore) with the same questions as you, so you're not alone

As you already have fish, there are things you can do to cycle a tank with fish. It starts with regular water changes to keep concentrations down, a good water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia (Seachem Prime and Kordon Amquel+).

I don't believe you need to pull everything out, but you may want to have a read (sorry, yep, more reading)

Oh, and what cell and mobile app are you using? I'll mention it to Mike (the site admin) and see if we can get it fixed so the links work on mobile apps.

Best of luck

 

I put some AmQuel plus in there last night hoping to help, and a bit of Stress Coat as well.

Just a heads up,when using Amquel+ you also need to use NovAqua (when treating tap water). There are a couple of things Amquel+ does not do that NovAqua does (and vise versa). The one thing that comes to mind right now is Amquel+ does not remove heavy metals, but NovAqua does.

But if you are dosing with Amquel+ and Stress Coat you will be fine since Stress Coat will do the things Amquel+ does not.

 

Should I do a water change and if so how much? Will do it tonight. I plan to get a 1 gal jug of water from the store, treat with AmQuel+ and Stress Coat, and add it in to the tank. Just not sure how often right now or how much.

 

When cycling with fish, you want to do daily partial water changes (35%-50%) with an ammonia/nitrite detoxing water conditioner (Amquel+ fits the bill), until the tank fully cycles (0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites and more nitrates than you started out with since some tap water contains nitrates).

Why the bottled water? If possible it is always preferable to use tap water.

 

Welcome to FishLore! I hope we can help you sort out all your problems. Don't feel discouraged; many, if not most members started out on the wrong foot, myself included.

There is definitely a lot of reading required when starting up in the fishkeeping hobby, no way around that! Most of the things I've thought of have been touched on, but a few extra:

1. If you don't wish to return your fish and do a fishless cycle, you can pick up a bottle of Tetra SafeStart. I have also not used this product, but in a nutshell it is a bottle of the bacteria you are trying to grow. This way the fish are safer since there will already be a small colony in the tank (provided by the TSS) consuming the ammonia and nitrites. Basically you dump the bottle in water treated with Tetra's water conditioner (as other brands may cause the cycle to fail), and do nothing for two weeks! No testing, no water changes, just feed the fish.

2. Okay, this one has already been stated, but I would like to emphasize: unfortunately for the fish you have, you need a much much larger tank for them to survive. The glofish especially are very active fish and will not last long in such a small tank. If you do not wish to upgrade, then I would strongly suggest you return your fish and start anew. There isn't a long list of fish that you are able to keep in a 5.5 gallon, but a betta would definitely be a possibility.

Best of luck with your tank!

 

There's a HUGE learning curve with this hobby. The good thing is that once you get all that initial stuff under your belt and get your tank cycled safely, it's pretty easy from then on. So, the reading up front is a must. Don't just read about the things you think you need to squeak by in your current situation, read as much as you can. It sinks in eventually.

 

jdhef:
Got the bottled idea from my mom who has a good sized tank with lots of healthy fish. Figured I could treat it and always have it ready

LyndaB: I've been reading like crazy. My main goal is to save these fish and continue reading so I don't have to worry about them anymore or at least not as much :-/

 

Bottled water doesn't necessarily have the appropriate natural minerals that you want for your fish tank.

 

2. Okay, this one has already been stated, but I would like to emphasize: unfortunately for the fish you have, you need a much much larger tank for them to survive. The glofish especially are very active fish and will not last long in such a small tank. If you do not wish to upgrade, then I would strongly suggest you return your fish and start anew. There isn't a long list of fish that you are able to keep in a 5.5 gallon, but a betta would definitely be a possibility.

Best of luck with your tank!

Thanks for the welcome! The Glofish have already died and I won't replace them. Just have the other 2 in there now. Hopefully still when I do a water change tonight.

Bottled water doesn't necessarily have the appropriate natural minerals that you want for your fish tank.

Good to know. It's small enough I can easily use treated tap. Thanks!

ryanr: I am using tapatalk during my lunch breaks to catch up I didn't see any auto links but links that were added manually by the poster show up fine.

The 2 platy are still alive... one is a bit listless, the other ate some food I put in and is swimming around. Partial water change tonight will hopefully help keep both of them... one of them get stronger, the other stay strong.

 

HI Robert, I have passed your feedback onto the site admin.

I have merged a few of your back-to-back posts. You can use the Edit Post button to add extra info to your last post

 

Thanks for merging. Some replies were coming in as I was responding. Tougher to do on a phone but was on my break

Water has been changed (just under 50% with Amquel+ and Stress Coat added). Hoping for the best - put a lot of worry into these $2 fish!

 

lol--if you want no worries buy plastic fish. Sooo hassle free

My first fish and tank were given to me--and I didn't even want them.... 2 years and 8 tanks later All because I had to go and learn about them when they weren't doing well.

 

Just an update: Mike (site admin) will try to fix the tapatalk links issue, but due to the way tapatalk works, there may be nothing that can be done from this side. i.e. He believes it to be a Tapatalk issue

 

Just an update: Mike (site admin) will try to fix the tapatalk links issue, but due to the way tapatalk works, there may be nothing that can be done from this side. i.e. He believes it to be a Tapatalk issue

thanks I still read from my desktop but can catch up with Tapatalk. so not a big deal but at least someone is aware of it! the links are helpful when they are there so I'm grateful. (edit: forum runner is the same - no links)

2 fish lasted overnight, but they're kind of hanging out together near the bottom. one was doing that already though he was swimming around a wee bit last night. Wondering if the 'good one' is just hanging out with him or if there's something still wrong. Did I tell you how stressful this is?

 

lol--if you want no worries buy plastic fish. Sooo hassle free

My first fish and tank were given to me--and I didn't even want them.... 2 years and 8 tanks later All because I had to go and learn about them when they weren't doing well.

I'm an addictive personality as well. Already looking at 10+ gallon tanks. The stress of keeping these fish is enough - guess I'd definitely have to go full out on the larger tank with testing, etc., before putting the fish in unlike we did this time (not knowing any better)

 

OK the 'strong one' is up and around the tank, and just ate some food, the other is still hanging out. So not much changed from yesterday though I feel better having changed the water. It was much less cloudy yesterday, and even my wife had thought I already changed it. So that's good. My hope is the fresher water will help him/her along (will do another partial change tonight). My guess is the one that isn't as strong was the original we bought Saturday that survived through 1 platy death and 4 glofish. So hopefully at least he can make it - he's come all this way.

edit: After getting up and going over there they were both up and about - which is good! The one stayed out of course, the other kind of swam back to his spot. Hopefully things are looking up!

Anything else I can be doing? Using AmQuel+ and Stress Coat and 35-50% changes. I've been leaving the light off during the day as I read it helps reduce stress and that may be what's hurting the other. Should I leave it on?

 

Fish are doing great tonight! Both up and about and pretty sure both ate. First one ate then we has dinner and I fed again and pretty sure the other ate that time! So I'm happy so far - still need to change the water tonight.

 

YAY! Platies! Thanks for the pictures! The tank looks fascinating!

Yes, keep doing what you're doing ... reading, learning, doing water changes, testing, reading, learning, testing, feeding, doing water changes, reading...
OK you get the idea LOL. Pretty soon it will "sink in" and the knowledge you have gained will become wisdom.

Glad you found FishLore. Keep us posted!

 

thanks, Donnerjay. They're getting there, and survived another night after a water change So I'm happy with the progress (we!) have made and thanks to FishLore for helping me along the way.

 

Wonderful see how much you have learned already. So glad you and your little scaly friends are doing better. There's nothing worse than seeing they aren't happy and not being able to make it better. If it wasn't for the FL crew I'd have no fish left either.

Just a quick thought....you have 2 (very pretty!) platies...do you know what genders they are?

 

Absolutely thrilled that they are doing better. Not out of the woods yet I'm sure but looking up!

 

Another update. Both fish continue to survive and both are eating. The smaller one I notice has lost some color in his tail (it's clear at the tips) but that could have been like that since he's been through a lot. I only noticed it when I sat and watched to see it I could tell the difference other than "smaller" and "bigger". The fact that he's eating is a good sign but not sure I can do anything about that?

 

Thanks robertk328 for the update. x How are things looking tonight? If your platies are swimming around, eating ("hungry fish are healthy fish"), and their fins are fully extended, you're probably out of the woods. Now rather than "crisis management," you move to "fish-in cycling and tank maintenance." This is a good thing and you should definitely pat yourself on the back.

May I ask if you've had time to get a liquid test kit? Besides water (!), a liquid test kit is indispensable, IMO. It helps diagnose your tank when something is wrong. It keeps you on track when things are right. And most importantly for you right now, it will tell you when your tank has cycled.

Many forum members, myself included, use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It's a bit pricey, running about $32 at PetSmart. You can get it for less online; I got mine frompetmountain for $16.99 plus shipping. The test kit will give you accurate results, as opposed to test strips. Plus it will save you a trip to your fish store to have your water tested.

At this point, keep up with your water changes and keep testing your water. Right now test for the Big Three: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You're shooting for zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and some nitrates.

Keep us posted!

 

Thanks for the note! Need to get the test kit, you're right. Doing my water changes and they seem to be eating ok. They rest now and then, and swim round lots exploring too. I'm also trying to give them time with their light on and time without.

 

That is good news! I have two sunburst (not wag) platies, one male and one female (currently separated LOL). I like watching them swim around and "peck" at plants, decor, etc.

 

Always worries me when I see one "resting"... After losing others especially. About time to change the water for today

 

Ordered my kit through the fishlore amazon link... Good thing too these two are poopin machines

 

Always worries me when I see one "resting"... After losing others especially. About time to change the water for today

Complete raging paranoia is normal after a start like you (and I) had.....I'm always panicking over mine ;D

 

Sounds like quite an ordeal and believe me, I completely understand as I went through almost the similar thing! My 5 gallon was just too small and all of the fish waste was not helping in such a small environment. I got lots of good info here ( and tons of reading too ) but I feel better now knowing what to do. I have since gotten a bigger tank but plan on using the 5 gallon for a betta and snail ( which I plan on getting tomorrow along with the TSS )
Good luck and don't beat yourself up!

Junne

 

Complete raging paranoia is normal after a start like you (and I) had.....I'm always panicking over mine ;D

Ha!

Definitely.... Got back from a day away and water was a bit cloudy so changed it. Always feel nervous putting new water in there, even with AmQuel+ and Stress Coat in it!! It'll go away but it was a week ago yesterday we started this whole thing.

Sounds like quite an ordeal and believe me, I completely understand as I went through almost the similar thing! My 5 gallon was just too small and all of the fish waste was not helping in such a small environment. I got lots of good info here ( and tons of reading too ) but I feel better now knowing what to do. I have since gotten a bigger tank but plan on using the 5 gallon for a betta and snail ( which I plan on getting tomorrow along with the TSS )
Good luck and don't beat yourself up!

Junne

I keep getting asked when we can put two more glofish in there now that the water is stable. They aren't understanding that the tank is small when the lady at petsmart said 1" per gallon. Two platy are enough.

What size did you move up to? Edit: I see in another thread you got a 36 gal bow front. Eyeing one of those too. Needs to be sturdy on a stand as my 2 y.o. Likes to watch the fish and he's a bull in a a china shop ,