Neon Tetras with Columnaris

so I had columnaris in some neon tetras before, so I treated the main tank with 1 course of kanaplex and 1 course of furan-2. After that I moved the neons into a quarantine tank and dosed 2 more courses of furan and 1 more course of kanaplex. The neons healed some so I thought they were good. I left them in quarantine for about 2 more weeks then moved them to the main tank again. They were all doing good but 3 got a little worse and had the scabs on them. They all eat and swim normally but they still show signs. I separated the 3 that had the scabs yesterday so I'm sitting here wondering why all that medicine didn't do ****. The neons are the only ones showing symptoms of the disease even after being with the guppies and female beta so Im starting to think its something else. Columnaris is supposed to kill the affected fish in at the most a month but they've been "sick" for about a month and a half and still none have died and they all still eat and are active. Here's a picture of the 3.

 

so I had columnaris in some neon tetras before, so I treated the main tank with 1 course of kanaplex and 1 course of furan-2. After that I moved the neons into a quarantine tank and dosed 2 more courses of furan and 1 more course of kanaplex. The neons healed some so I thought they were good. I left them in quarantine for about 2 more weeks then moved them to the main tank again. They were all doing good but 3 got a little worse and had the scabs on them. They all eat and swim normally but they still show signs. I separated the 3 that had the scabs yesterday so I'm sitting here wondering why all that medicine didn't do ****. The neons are the only ones showing symptoms of the disease even after being with the guppies and female beta so Im starting to think its something else. Columnaris is supposed to kill the affected fish in at the most a month but they've been "sick" for about a month and a half and still none have died and they all still eat and are active. Here's a picture of the 3.

I agree it wouldnt be columnaris. I dont see any cotton like fuzz. Are the spots just located on the fins or the body as well?

 

I agree it wouldnt be columnaris. I dont see any cotton like fuzz. Are the spots just located on the fins or the body as well?

The red circle is where the grey/white scabs are. The other 2 have them but not nearly as much as this one. He also has a grey lump on his mouth that you can't see in this pic very good because of the angle. The other 2 just mainly have stuff on there fins.

 

Read up and try treating the tank with potassium permanganate .
Looks like columnaris to me ?

 

Read up and try treating the tank with potassium permanganate .
Looks like columnaris to me ?

Okay ill try the potassium but if it doesn't work I dont think I'm going to spend anymore money on meds, I've already gone through $50+ just for columnaris.

 

$10 worth of potassium permanganate will last you over a year even if you used it weekly .
You need to get dry powder and mix it with water to get the treatment solution .
7 grams will mix with 100ml of water to make a 2 drop per gallon solution .
The water should stay pink for 4 hours or other factors have used up the pp.
You can dose twice in one day if it turns brown in under 2 hours .
Read this ; http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/potassium-permanganate
Taken from here ;
this stuff will permanently stain everything so mix the powder outside or in garage and wear gloves /safety glasses .
Have H202 [hydrogen peroxide 3%] from any store right there with you to de activate if you have any issue .
1ml H202 will deactivate it in minutes .

 

$10 worth of potassium permanganate will last you over a year even if you used it weekly .
You need to get dry powder and mix it with water to get the treatment solution .
7 grams will mix with 100ml of water to make a 2 drop per gallon solution .
The water should stay pink for 4 hours or other factors have used up the pp.
You can dose twice in one day if it turns brown in under 2 hours .
Read this ; http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/potassium-permanganate
Taken from here ;
this stuff will permanently stain everything so mix the powder outside or in garage and wear gloves /safety glasses .
Have H202 [hydrogen peroxide 3%] from any store right there with you to de activate if you have any issue .
1ml H202 will deactivate it in minutes .

Okay so after a lot of thinking and research I really don't think this is columnaris. I've had these infected neons for now 2 months close to 3 and none have died. I've now done 5 courses of furan 2 and 2 courses of kanaplex. The slowest killing strain is supposed to kill in a month at most but mine are still active and eat after 2 months. I'll try the potassium-permanganate but if it doesn't work I'm gonna assume its a normal bacterial infection.

 

Okay so after a lot of thinking and research I really don't think this is columnaris. I've had these infected neons for now 2 months close to 3 and none have died. I've now done 5 courses of furan 2 and 2 courses of kanaplex. The slowest killing strain is supposed to kill in a month at most but mine are still active and eat after 2 months. I'll try the potassium-permanganate but if it doesn't work I'm gonna assume its a normal bacterial infection.

I agree with this. I had columnaris in a few neons and they died within a matter of days. Kanaplex is my go to for bacterial infections, have you seen any improvement?

 

I agree with this. I had columnaris in a few neons and they died within a matter of days. Kanaplex is my go to for bacterial infections, have you seen any improvement?

After the first course of kanaplex and furan 2 I thought they looked better. I separated all the neons into a 10 gal and did another course of kanaplex and then a course of furan 2. Then I did another course of furan 2 and added the fish back to the main tank. I separated the 3 neons in the pics above into the 10 gall again and have now done 2 courses of furan 2 and added some aquarium salt. They still eat and are active. It looks like columnaris a little but there nit acting like they have it. (Also when I say course I mean the whole course so for example furan 2, 1 packet a day for 4 days).

 

I am considering treating my fish too for columnaris so was reading your post. I think you have done a lot of meds, can you try or have you tried Aquarium salt? I would still wait a few days before doing anything else, and I am surprised after treating with Furan -2 and kanaplex they are still showing any infection- those are potent meds. Could there be anything in the tank they are scraping on? Or bullying each other? The only other thing I can think of is that you have treated well for bacterial infections so maybe it is fungal & the aquarium salt will help. But I don;t know if tetras tolerate aq. salt. Good luck!

 

I am considering treating my fish too for columnaris so was reading your post. I think you have done a lot of meds, can you try or have you tried Aquarium salt? I would still wait a few days before doing anything else, and I am surprised after treating with Furan -2 and kanaplex they are still showing any infection- those are potent meds. Could there be anything in the tank they are scraping on? Or bullying each other? The only other thing I can think of is that you have treated well for bacterial infections so maybe it is fungal & the aquarium salt will help. But I don;t know if tetras tolerate aq. salt. Good luck!

Yes I've used aqaurium salt. It didn't seem to do much. The tank is bare bottom and I've never seen them chase each other.

 

Yes I've used aqaurium salt. It didn't seem to do much. The tank is bare bottom and I've never seen them chase each other.

Well then there is that :/ Sorry and good luck!

 

Well then there is that :/ Sorry and good luck!

Same for you

 

Same for you

Okay so I have a question. I guess one of the tetras still have whatever this is in the main tank and I want everyone's thoughts on what this is. Its the white spot on the tetra. Its to big to be ich as its just one spot.

 

Okay so I have a question. I guess one of the tetras still have whatever this is in the main tank and I want everyone's thoughts on what this is. Its the white spot on the tetra. Its to big to be ich as its just one spot.

Another question. I just took a look at the neons in the qt tank and 2 of them have lumps on the bottom of them. Is this some form of a tumor or am I dealing with NTD all along?

 

Another question. I just took a look at the neons in the qt tank and 2 of them have lumps on the bottom of them. Is this some form of a tumor or am I dealing with NTD all along?

Okay this morning the bump/lump is gone so maybe they were just bloated? I overfed a little yesterday so maybe thats why. But the main problem is what do the neons have?

 

I’m not sure your neons have columnaris.... In the first picture it more looks like something is irritating their slime coat. Possibly all the meds? I had a neon with columnaris and it was dead in three days so I highly doubt that’s what your issue is. Is the stuff that looks like their skin is peeling still their?

 

I’m not sure your neons have columnaris.... In the first picture it more looks like something is irritating their slime coat. Possibly all the meds? I had a neon with columnaris and it was dead in three days so I highly doubt that’s what your issue is. Is the stuff that looks like their skin is peeling still their?

Yeah and one has a lump on its mouth. Also in the pics you can see that there tails have white on them and I don't know what that is either. They act normal so idk if I should try fungal meds or another bacterial medicine.

 

A lot of times a secondary thing can start as a result of the first issue, which may or may not have been columnaris and possibly just fungal. When weakened they tend to get something else too. Hard to tell from pics but If still acting normal and eating that is a good start to try to figure it out. Maybe get tank water changed to get back to no trace of meds - or once run course then change water & try aquarium salt as a treatment - a lot of people swear it is a great led for a lot, depending on the issue and a good preventative too. But again, don’t know if tetras tolerates aq salt- so would make sure salinity they can do

 

A lot of times a secondary thing can start as a result of the first issue, which may or may not have been columnaris and possibly just fungal. When weakened they tend to get something else too. Hard to tell from pics but If still acting normal and eating that is a good start to try to figure it out. Maybe get tank water changed to get back to no trace of meds - or once run course then change water & try aquarium salt as a treatment - a lot of people swear it is a great led for a lot, depending on the issue and a good preventative too. But again, don’t know if tetras tolerates aq salt- so would make sure salinity they can do

Okay I'll try salt again starting tomorrow

 

Yeah and one has a lump on its mouth. Also in the pics you can see that there tails have white on them and I don't know what that is either. They act normal so idk if I should try fungal meds or another bacterial medicine.

Im not sure about the lump but I think all the meds or something in the water is irritating their slime coat. It doesn’t look fungal or bacterial to me. I wouldn’t treat unless you absolutely know what they have. Maybe give them a few days rest from meds? It is a risk if I’m wrong and the meds were keeping them alive but it could help them if I’m right about it irritating their slime coat.

 

Okay I'll try salt again starting tomorrow

Salt is great, especially if it’s a slime coat issue I believe cory has a good guide for the dosage.

 

I stopped buying Neons and have seen nothing like that since.....My guess.

 

My thought these are signs of the species specific strain of Columnaris which appear very hard to treat. Redshark1 has the best info about clean / a stressless environment can help The bulging bellies look like worms to me.

 

My thought these are signs of the species specific strain of Columnaris which appear very hard to treat. Redshark1 has the best info about clean / a stressless environment can help The bulging bellies look like worms to me.

Okay. So furan 2 and kanaplex won't have any affect? I've dosed a lot of it and it seems it hasn't done much Im gonna give them a break off the meds for now.

 

Okay. So furan 2 and kanaplex won't have any affect? I've dosed a lot of it and it seems it hasn't done much Im gonna give them a break off the meds for now.

That was the result of treatments in the past as well. Sorry to tell you.

 

That was the result of treatments in the past as well. Sorry to tell you.

So you mean treating the disease made it worse?

 

So you mean treating the disease made it worse?

No that was not what I meand, though it might have given them extra stress.

I meand that in the past treatment didn't hardly ever worked out.

Neons really seem to be a disaster nowadays.

 

No that was not what I meand, though it might have given them extra stress.

I meand that in the past treatment didn't hardly ever worked out.

Neons really seem to be a disaster nowadays.

Yeah do you think cardinals are any better? I might just keep all the neons in a separate tank until I can figure this out and go with cardinals.

 

Within the last 2 years I have bought 12 Cardinals a I still have 12 Cardinals with no funny disease. I say yes they are definitely better IMO. They are also more colorful too.

 

Within the last 2 years I have bought 12 Cardinals a I still have 12 Cardinals with no funny disease. I say yes they are definitely better IMO. They are also more colorful too.

Okay I may invest in a school of them

 

Within the last 2 years I have bought 12 Cardinals a I still have 12 Cardinals with no funny disease. I say yes they are definitely better IMO. They are also more colorful too.

Cardinals have a shorter history of being tankbred. The extensive overbreeding of a species in allmost all cases leads to issues, diseases, etc... So I'd go with Cardinals indeed.

 

Okay I may invest in a school of them

So after giving it a long thought I'm debating with myself whether I should euthanize the 3 really sick neons and watch the in my main tank that are developing white cysts/dots on their sides, euthanize all the 3 neons that are really sick and the ones with the cyst/dots, or euthanize the whole school. The reason the last one is even an option is because everytime I've removed the sick ones, 'healthy' neons start developing something. It hasn't affected any of my other fish but I really don't want to risk anything so I want to see what you all think is the best option.

 

I've given up on neons because they die so quickly & easily. I've purchased 24 in period of several months & only 5 are alive

I've had the same neons since last fall & won't buy them again.

I noticed 1 of mine looks sort of like your picture a while ago ( I was it was thinking neon disease, bloated slightly with almost a curve to it) , but the other 4 neons are fine & no one else in my community tank is effected. I figured I'd let nature take it's course.

But I forgot it was communicable, so thank you for this thread.

Thinking back, I had a grape color glowfish tetra die in tank & never found the body. I know they ate him, it was several months ago. it's possible he had something & gave it to them as these Neons are 9-12 months with me & had no symptoms previously. I fasted their tank today so I'll see how he looks tomorrow.

 

So after giving it a long thought I'm debating with myself whether I should euthanize the 3 really sick neons and watch the in my main tank that are developing white cysts/dots on their sides, euthanize all the 3 neons that are really sick and the ones with the cyst/dots, or euthanize the whole school. The reason the last one is even an option is because everytime I've removed the sick ones, 'healthy' neons start developing something. It hasn't affected any of my other fish but I really don't want to risk anything so I want to see what you all think is the best option.

Update: So after thinking about it I'm not going to give up on neon tetras just yet. I took out the 2 neons in the main tank that had the white lesions on them and I'm going to euthanize all 5 of the sick ones tomorrow. I have 5 healthy (at least for now) neons left. I'm going to clean the QT tank and then wait about a month to see if any of my healthy neons start showing symptoms and if they do, I'm just going to have to euthanize the whole school and try cardinal tetras. Thanks everyone for the help.

 

Good luck & keep us posted. In times like this, all we can do is be good stewards for our fishy friends. Sending you positive healing vibes for the rest of your school.

 

Good luck & keep us posted. In times like this, all we can do is be good stewards for our fishy friends. Sending you positive healing vibes for the rest of your school.

I will. The rest of the school seems healthy and there's no visual symptoms so hopefully they're good. I'll make an update if anything happens.

 

1 month update: all the neons are still healthy and showing no signs of the disease.

 

After the first course of kanaplex and furan 2 I thought they looked better. I separated all the neons into a 10 gal and did another course of kanaplex and then a course of furan 2. Then I did another course of furan 2 and added the fish back to the main tank. I separated the 3 neons in the pics above into the 10 gall again and have now done 2 courses of furan 2 and added some aquarium salt. They still eat and are active. It looks like columnaris a little but there nit acting like they have it. (Also when I say course I mean the whole course so for example furan 2, 1 packet a day for 4 days).

Just my opinion, but they look relatively healthy by body weight, and you have already treated. I would move to standard water changes only. If no other fish are becoming sick, just give them time to heal. No need for more stress as you will wonder what it is anyway.

 

Just my opinion, but they look relatively healthy by body weight, and you have already treated. I would move to standard water changes only. If no other fish are becoming sick, just give them time to heal. No need for more stress as you will wonder what it is anyway.

Yeah I had to euthanize the 5 main ones that had the grey patches and white on their tails but the remaining 5 are good and I haven't treated them with anything for a month either.