Neon Tetra Skinny, not looking too good

4nni3

So I've had this neon tetra for 3 months, and he was always skinny. Now it's starting to hide more, look pale, and fins are looking ragged. That might be due to nipping though since he's only in a group of 4 tetras (i do plan to get more). Anyone have any idea whats wrong with it? Pic attached.

My other tetras are fine minus one whos a little deformed looking. All swimming and eating fine except the skinny one.



Tank parameters

ph 6.8
ammonia/nitrite 0
nitrate 40
 

VioletKeepsFish

It could be internal parasites. Are there any other abnormalities in behavior?
 
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4nni3

It could be internal parasites. Are there any other abnormalities in behavior?


Just today he's started hanging at the top of the tank almost like he's lacking oxygen. Ik the tank is getting plenty of air though since he's the only one acting off.
 
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DoubleDutch

I'd get it out and euthanise it
 
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DoubleDutch

Nitrates high which suggests overfeeding/not enough water changes
Nitrates of 40 aren't an issue nor a cause of this issue.
 
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4nni3

I'd get it out and euthanise it

I figure thats probably what I'm going to have to do. Poor little guy.
 
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Cherryshrimp420

Nitrates of 40 aren't an issue nor a cause of this issue.

What makes you say that? Nitrates levels definitely have an effect on the health of the fish.

Like I said, it is also an indicator of high DOM levels usually caused by overfeeding/lack of water changes
 
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DoubleDutch

Nitrate levels under 50 simply aren't an issue in normal circumstances and don't automatically point towards overfeeding or too few waterchanges.

Several brands make you think so cause they can sell nitrateremovers etc....
The issue in this fish hasn't to do with the cureent level.
 
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Cherryshrimp420

Nitrate levels under 50 simply aren't an issue in normal circumstances and don't automatically point towards overfeeding or too few waterchanges.

Several brands make you think so cause they can sell nitrateremovers etc....
The issue in this fish hasn't to do with the cureent level.

Hmm where does that value come from? There's been many research done on nitrate toxicity on fish and I have not seen one that indicates nitrate has a "safe" value. Lower levels simply had lower impact but still worse than the control....
 
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DoubleDutch

Hmm where does that value come from? There's been many research done on nitrate toxicity on fish and I have not seen one that indicates nitrate has a "safe" value. Lower levels simply had lower impact but still worse than the control....

This for instance ?
Freshwater Aquarium Water Quality: The Nitrogen Cycle & Optimal Water Chemistry
 
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Cherryshrimp420

This for instance ?
Freshwater Aquarium Water Quality: The Nitrogen Cycle & Optimal Water Chemistry

Well that's Aqueon's company page and not a study, but even so, let's see what they say:

"While nitrate is far less toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms than ammonia and nitrite, it can stunt your fish’s growth and long-term exposure to high levels stresses them and compromises their immune systems.... Nitrate toxicity to fish varies depending on species, age and overall health, but levels above 50 ppm are undesirable in freshwater aquaria "

So by their own words levels above 50ppm are undesirable. However, this does NOT mean levels below 50ppm are "safe", and their own words are carefully worded to avoid giving that impression.

Looking right below, they have a chart for their own "recommendations":

Plants & Soft Water Fish
Nitrate: <30ppm

Neon tetras are a soft water fish and would fall into this category. So as you can see, even a for-profit company is advocating for lower nitrate levels.
 
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DoubleDutch

Well that's Aqueon's company page and not a study, but even so, let's see what they say:

"While nitrate is far less toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms than ammonia and nitrite, it can stunt your fish’s growth and long-term exposure to high levels stresses them and compromises their immune systems.... Nitrate toxicity to fish varies depending on species, age and overall health, but levels above 50 ppm are undesirable in freshwater aquaria "

So by their own words levels above 50ppm are undesirable. However, this does NOT mean levels below 50ppm are "safe", and their own words are carefully worded to avoid giving that impression.

Looking right below, they have a chart for their own "recommendations":

Plants & Soft Water Fish
Nitrate: <30ppm

Neon tetras are a soft water fish and would fall into this category. So as you can see, even a for-profit company is advocating for lower nitrate levels.

Isn't it how one interpretates words?
PFK mentions a max of 40.
Frequently asked questions on nitrate

But let's agree to disagree.
Not scientific as well :
Nitrate - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki
 
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Cherryshrimp420

Isn't it how one interpretates words?
PFK mentions a max of 40.
Frequently asked questions on nitrate

But let's agree to disagree.
Not scientific as well :
Nitrate - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki

Hmm from your links:

"Try to keep the nitrate level as low as possible."

"Tropical freshwater species should be kept below 40ppm, where possible."

Doesn't seem like 50ppm is the "safe" threshold. More like an arbitrary guideline for which we should keep nitrate levels under. The wiki says so as well.
 
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