Need Some Help With Ich

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grantm91

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Ive zero experience with fish disease or illness, but today i noticed a patch of ich on one of my mollies.
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The tank is a 55 gallon which has been running a year.
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Stocking is, 2 firemouth, 6 mollies. I ideally just want to do a heat treatment, i want to avoid meds and salt. I need to know what temperature and how long for because i see all different stuff on the internet, and i know there are some seasoned people here. Also any tips on anything else to do during treatment like should i cut back on feeding and change more water ? Thank you in advance.
 

OnTheFly

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90% chance 86F will kill it. I ran across a heat resistant strain recently but most of the time 86F works for others.

That said, looks more like a patch of fungus than ich. Ich will normally look like somebody salted your fish. Very fine grain, and lots of them if you don't treat it quick. If it turns out is is bacterial, then raising heat causes more harm than good. And welcome to fish disease unfortunately. You'll get an education very soon.
 
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grantm91

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Ive had fungus before a few times, but this looks like ich when you look at it in person, so lets say it is fungus what should i do from here, in the past I’ve fixed fungus with salt baths and pristine water. Should i try that for a few days before elevating the temp ?? I have to add here, the fact its just one of them does not point to ich either ? Is that right ?
 

Discusluv

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That doesn't look like Ich to me, Grant. And if you haven't added fish, plants, etc... to this tank within the past six weeks or used nets ( or had any cross-contamination with a tank that has Ich)--- Ich would not be what you are dealing with.

To me it looks like saprolegnia (a fungal-- but, not true fungus- infection).
The treatment would be acriflavin, malachite green or methelyne blue baths ( Paraguard would work here) for mild to moderate infections.
For severe cases, the bath as above with nitrofurizone or triple sulfa added directly to tank as directed on box.

This is often brought on by high organics in water. I would recommend looking to make sure dont have any dead fish in tank that haven't noticed and test water parameters just in case of declining water quality.
Sorry! These things are never fun!
 

OnTheFly

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Grant, put some trust in discusluv. She's not a Vet but she puts a lot of effort into fish medicine education. I have been conversing with her via PM for some problematic fish and she has certainly helped me save more of them than I ever would have without her help. You don't necessarily have to Med the whole tank if you get her segregated. There are a ton of common Meds that are effective against most external stuff. She mentioned many options already. And this is a molly, that can tolerate an unheated plastic container easy enough. If you can't get Meds tonight even a salt bath can help get it started. Triggering slime coat production has worked for me so many times with live-bearers. Salt isn't real medicine, but it can help with external issues on some fish.

Should have mentioned I haven't used all the Meds she suggested. M-Green will turn tank silicone blue for a few months but it fades. Never killed my plants or BB ever. Meth Blue can kill stuff you didn't intend to kill. But it is a very effective bath treatment, and very time tested. Probably the first Med I ever heard of way before you were even born. It dyes the bad guys cells and keeps it from reproducing. Gives your fish a better chance to fight it off naturally after the dip.
 
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grantm91

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Thank you guys a lot, @Discusluv that makes a lot of sense, I just tested and I’m at 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 40 nitrate, I’ve done a big water change today though so what they were before i cant honestly say, i only noticed the thing afterwards when i was watching the tank having a tea, which nearly got spat everywhere. Started to think now after what you said, and maybe fry have been going up the filter and polluting the water as all the females are pregnant and have been for a while, but i just leave them and let nature take its course, maybe i should ho back to having a pre filter too so at least id know no fry are in the canister then. Meth blue baths and making sure i don’t see it on any of the others ? Would that be enough ? Because i cant see it on anyone else. I don’t mind treating the tank now i know its not ich, i just wanted to avoid using meds in the case of it being ich. Filter inspection first thing tomorrow too.
 

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Malachite green would cover both ich and Saprolegnia.

I'm not convinced it's Saprolegnia though due to insufficient fluffiness.
 

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grantm91 said:
Thank you guys a lot, @Discusluv that makes a lot of sense, I just tested and I’m at 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 40 nitrate, I’ve done a big water change today though so what they were before i cant honestly say, i only noticed the thing afterwards when i was watching the tank having a tea, which nearly got spat everywhere. Started to think now after what you said, and maybe fry have been going up the filter and polluting the water as all the females are pregnant and have been for a while, but i just leave them and let nature take its course, maybe i should ho back to having a pre filter too so at least id know no fry are in the canister then. Meth blue baths and making sure i don’t see it on any of the others ? Would that be enough ? Because i cant see it on anyone else. I don’t mind treating the tank now i know its not ich, i just wanted to avoid using meds in the case of it being ich. Filter inspection first thing tomorrow too.
I'll stop power posting your thread after this. Get the molly out of there now and maybe the tank is spared from treatment. Or maybe just one single preventative dose a few days from now.
 
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What should i do with the molly ?
 

OnTheFly

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grantm91 said:
What should i do with the molly ?
Put her in a plastic container. No heat and no air is OK it if isn't handy. Can't tell you how many times I have had live-bearers in a 5 gallon container for treatment. First move is to protect the community if you are averse to Meds. She'll be OK in a tub by herself. Oxygen will be zero issue. Put her in a warmish spot in your house. If you can't get Meds tonight give her a salt bath before she hits the container and get the slimecoat working. I bathe with a tablespoon of salt in 2-3 QTs of water for about an hour. You could leave a molly in that solution for a month if you had to. After a bath I would put her in a larger container. Salt it if you want. A tablespoon in a 5 gallon is a very, very minor dose for that species. I'd definitely Med her soon but giving you low risk options for now. When you have Meds you can throw her back in community if you are medding it anyway
 

Discusluv

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grantm91 said:
Thank you guys a lot, @Discusluv that makes a lot of sense, I just tested and I’m at 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 40 nitrate, I’ve done a big water change today though so what they were before i cant honestly say, i only noticed the thing afterwards when i was watching the tank having a tea, which nearly got spat everywhere. Started to think now after what you said, and maybe fry have been going up the filter and polluting the water as all the females are pregnant and have been for a while, but i just leave them and let nature take its course, maybe i should ho back to having a pre filter too so at least id know no fry are in the canister then. Meth blue baths and making sure i don’t see it on any of the others ? Would that be enough ? Because i cant see it on anyone else. I don’t mind treating the tank now i know its not ich, i just wanted to avoid using meds in the case of it being ich. Filter inspection first thing tomorrow too.
Well, if it is Ich, which I doubt, ( but, I think @AvalancheDave suspects) it will become apparent soon enough by spreading to your other fish. If you get Ich in your tank without possibility of cross-contamination happening from an outward source than I will alter my firm belief that Ich cannot lie latent,dormant (whatever the semantics may be) in an aquarium. From the evidence I studied so far it cannot. Fish that survived an outbreak do have a build-up of immunity to the parasite, but this appears to only be for a limited time.
I would put a pre-filter on in the situation of fry. They can easily be sucked up in a filter and foul it up through decomposition.
If you only see it in the one fish, just do a dip in the methelyne blue and then return it to display tank if dont have a hospital tank. These issues only happen to fish than are immunocompromised.

@AvalancheDave -- the other fish is safe with others in display tank, correct? Assuming this is saprolegnia, only those compromised would be effected?

Edit: @grantm91 -- a salt dip would be fine as a treatment until get the metheleyne blue.
 
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grantm91

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Thanks guys il bath it and put it back, il keep it updated, all the other fish are perfect, these stinky little live bearers !!! No i love them really, thank you guys a lot, i was sure it was ich, now I’m sure @Discusluv is correct, il start doing homework for my self too. On a side note, il be placing an order for 12-15 congo tetra for my 120 ! Thanks again for that one too @Discusluv haha.
 

Discusluv

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grantm91 said:
Thanks guys il bath it and put it back, il keep it updated, all the other fish are perfect, these stinky little live bearers !!! No i love them really, thank you guys a lot, i was sure it was ich, now I’m sure @Discusluv is correct, il start doing homework for my self too. On a side note, il be placing an order for 12-15 congo tetra for my 120 ! Thanks again for that one too @Discusluv haha.
Yeah!!! What type of Congo tetra are you getting?
 
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Discusluv said:
Yeah!!! What type of Congo tetra are you getting?
Phenacogrammus Interruptus
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these are the only ones i could source here, il be ordering them tomorrow as soon as the guy has collected my Oscar.
 
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grantm91

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Discusluv said:
Yeah!!! What type of Congo tetra are you getting?
Phenacogrammus Interruptus
44e1f9576b0bd98733fd3017c7395986.jpg
these are the only ones i could source here, il be ordering them tomorrow as soon as the guy has collected my Oscar.
 

Discusluv

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Such an awesome fish! They have great personality and school pretty tight as well! So cool--- pictures are expected....
 
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grantm91

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Discusluv said:
Such an awesome fish! They have great personality and school pretty tight as well! So cool--- pictures are expected....
Well i seen yours and decided to look into them, I discovered there is nothing a better match for what i want, the perfect size, beautiful color, beautiful finnage, and they school, all perfect for my 120. Expect pics lol.
 

AvalancheDave

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It doesn't look like ich to me but OP say it looks like ich and unless the pictures are really good (and it's hard to take good pictures of fish disease), I trust the OP's eyes more than mine.

My thinking is that every fish in the tank is already exposed to everything since most pathogens exist in all fresh aquarium and pond water.

There are only two reasons to remove a fish that I can think of. The first is because it would be impractical, dangerous to tankmates, or too expensive to treat the whole tank. The second would be if there was a fish with ich that was at risk of becoming an ich bomb. Since it's weakened, ich hatches and reinfects it over and over until there's a huge number of theronts (swimmers). The other healthier fish can fight off a fair amount of theronts but not that many and then they get infected.

Accordingly, I don't think there's a risk of contagion with Saprolegnia since it's already everywhere.

I think the distinction between dormant and latent ich is important. There is no stage of ich that can really lie dormant and wait. The cycle has to complete within 7 days at 77F. The only waly ich could persist in a tank without obvious signs would be to continue its lifecycle and just hide in the gills or in a small number of spots that you don't notice.

I know dormant ich is impossible but I'm not sure about latent ich infections.
 
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Thanks again guys, what ever it is, it has subsided massively over night after just one salt bath Maybe it was just a scratch with a little fungal infection ? I may have jumped to conclusions because i have this fear that all live bearers are just dirty, its my first time keeping a set, before hand i had a snobbish view on them. Il still be cleaning my canister out and adding a pre-filter as I’m convinced there are dead fry up there.
 
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